So Kevin Oleary wants to increase immigration

[Argus]

41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

We don't bring in unskilled immigrants for those jobs.

We bring in an awful lot of unskilled immigrants, or underskilled immigrants who can't find decent work.

[Army Guy]

Yes it will always be easier.....but sometimes doing the right thing is not always easier....if this is a skill that perhaps is small in numbers then perhaps it is not cost efficient to train Canadians in this skill....But if Canada needs this skill in large numbers and the skill has longevity, then why not train Canadians , enticed through many different options.

why are they not doing it...? could be as simple as not knowing what career field are opened, how many high school students know of this skill, what it pays, who has job openings, i find guidance councilors not all equally educated on what is out there and all the details in between, nor do schools really pay attention to the finge jobs, for the lack of a better word............combine this with a lack of media on the topic.....Here in NB it is all about Irving and all the jobs they bring to the table, or out west  which is drying up for the most part....if you look at the classifieds you'll find a few local jobs, the rest is all out west....So i don't know why everyone is not jumping on the train....but i think with the right media coverage, tax breaks if needed one could solve this issue rather quickly....

If the government can make being an infanteer look sexy in the media they can make anything look good....

Edited April 11, 2017 by Army Guy

[herples]

If we train Canadians who will take up the job while those Canadians are being trained? Immigrants of course.

[dre]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If we need more skilled workers than we produce, then what do we do ?  Not everyone has the propensity to be a tech worker, doctor etc.  

And to be competitive and to allow business to be successful we have to be productive and competitive on the world market.  Immigration isn't going to reduce, and in fact world immigration is increasing.  Almost 250 million migrated across borders in 2015:

http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2016/01/244-million-international-migrants-living-abroad-worldwide-new-un-statistics-reveal/

If capital is allowed to move from country to country then people should be able to also, with conditions.

Its not just skilled workers that are important. Unskilled workers are just as important to the economy whether they pay taxes or not. We are almost at what economists consider "full employment". And because the numbers deviate regionally that means in some provinces you literally cannot find workers, or the workers you can find are so "bottom of the barrel" you are better off without them. I run a construction services company in BC... I cant even find people with a drivers license or bank account... never mind skills or work ethic.

Your point about capital vs people is bang on, and I have made exactly that point to you numerous times throughout the years. Moving the production to the cheap labor is economically no different than moving the cheap labor to production. If anything the latter is a better domestic option because its easier on the current account. There's less capital flight, and more taxes paid here at home.

The bigger question is where we will end up under the banner of "being competitive". Right now it simply means that the countries that treat workers the worst and have the lowest environmental and labor standards are rewarded by investment in production. I bet that If I kept my workers in a cage and burned babies alive to create cheap energy,  I could make stuff pretty cheap. And under the current regime I would be rewarded because the "consumer ethics" aspect of the "free market" is gone.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) You can't train anybody to do anything.  Unfortunately the new economy requires raw talent that can't always be taught.

You mean you can't train any Canadians to do anything? 35,000,000 people and no talent, really sucks eh? I can't believe people can have such a low opinion of their own countrymen.

[H10]

On 4/8/2017 at 6:58 PM, Army Guy said:

How much money is spent on immigration and refugees every year in Canada ? Why not use that money to fund either child care, or increase child care benifits....Pay Canadians to have more babies......and then cut back on immigration.... 

You seem to be forgetting Canadian (white) women want their women's rights and fought to have abortions to kill off their own babies.

[taxme]

On 4/10/2017 at 6:43 PM, Rue said:

Thanks Army. I agree with some of what you say and now better understand your point. I think we don't disagree on one thing-we have to be careful in our selection criteria.

I just fall back to the fact that this country was built by immigrants. All of us other than aboriginal peoples are. Even they at one point would have migrated here from Mongolia, etc., but I think away back them the only people meeting them were mosquitoes.

I don't want to change the tread topic anymore than I did. Just meant to point out I agree with O'Leary and he does not condone what is going on. No, Lol I do not work for him.

I have to admit unless you can convince me otherwise my friend, I would have to vote for him right now from the lot of them running.

 

I am not an immigrant yet I helped build up this country. Why do people like you always have to say that we are all immigrants when millions of us are not? Millions of us were born here. I guess by saying that must mean that the British and European people were not the only ones here building up Canada at the time of confederation. The whole world was here. 

[taxme]

31 minutes ago, hernanday said:

You seem to be forgetting Canadian (white) women want their women's rights and fought to have abortions to kill off their own babies.

No, it was not Canadian white women who wanted women's rights and fought to have abortions to kill off their own babies. It was the elite zionists that planned it that way and made it happen. H. Morgentaler made millions from aborting white babies. Abortions became a make work projects for the likes of Morgentaler, and his ilk.   

[taxme]

On 4/9/2017 at 4:01 PM, Army Guy said:

No Rue, am i am sorry for not providing some detail with my post...., that state that the cost to Canadian taxpayers for immigration, was estimated net costs of 35 bil dollars a year....         http://immigrationwatchcanada.org/   That is a lot of cash....more than enough to fund a program that encourages Canadians to have babies.....but also fund a national child care program.....

Studies have already shown that immigration will not stop our pending issue of a older population base....it will slow it down but it in it's self will not stop it... So immigration is not the answer nor short term goal.....there needs to be another answer, with a full set of other solutions.....one of the main reason families do not have more children is the cost , the cost of child care is sky high, and the other cost cutting programs or rebates do not make it even come close to make people reconsider having larger families.....we need an incentive to have families grow in size from the average 1.2 kids today to a minimum of 4 or 5.....much like the baby boomer generation.

Now when it comes to highly skilled labours being brought into Canada in 2016 were 58,400, infact the total number of skilled or semi skilled workers was 160,000 out of 300,000....just a little over half....the others include  Spouses, Partners and Children,Parents and Grandparents, and other.....and while these are important to some Canadian citizens.....they represent a huge draw on resources, as most do not earn a wage or pay taxes, but rather draw tax dollars for medicare etc....Not that this country can not support both or multiply programs to solve out issues...

..http://canadaimmigrants.com/canadas-immigration-targets-2016/

Once again one has to ask could we not give out either free education, to those field we are short in, or provide a huge tax relief or discount of some sort to Canadian kids.....we seem to swallow this "Immigration" will solve all our issues, create more jobs, through new homes , etc etc ....but do we not do that now with Canadians, they move out of the house, they rent, and once they get established they purchase homes.....why do we need to be the worlds piggy bank, providing immigrants with jobs, that they can't find in their country, or they earn much more here in the west.....why not give those jobs to Canadians...  I get it it is not going to happen over night....it will take a generation to slow the flow of immigrants.....to a more reasonable levels.....

someone would say we are a diverse nation, a melting pot....problem with melting pots is everyone gets mixed in and we become a mut of some sort......not what we have today in our big cities.....what we have is the UN .....ever been down town lately, drive a few blocks and your in china town, drive a few more and your in little jamaica, or in Persia, it's goes on and on....that is not diversity...i meet a chinese man down town TO, been there for 25 years could barely speak english...why bother he said every one here speaks chinese here, and if they don't i get someone that can speak english.....they have just transplanted themselves from their nations to ours....nothing changed....we pat ourselves on the back and say we are diverse.....are we really ? 

 

We can thank all of this to that wonderful program called multiculturalism where new immigrants are pretty much told today that Canada is a multicultural country, and that they can carry on business as usual from whence they came. Many now have their own radio/TV stations, newspapers, schools, churches, cultural centers, businesses, and are served in their own language by all levels of government. So, why learn to speak English or assimilate when there is no need too. As you have already pointed out, the many ethnic ghettos are on the rise while the majority for now will soon find themselves in the minority in decades to come. Something wonderful for our children and grandchildren to look froward too. Not. 

[taxme]

On 4/8/2017 at 2:16 PM, hernanday said:

" O’Leary also promised to accelerate immigration for those in key sectors by working with employers and HR executives "

thestar.com speech at empire club.

What do you people who are on the far right think about that?  More TFWs?  More immigrants coming in driving up housing prices?

I think it stinks. Whether you are a capitalist, a communist, a socialist, a liberal or a conservative or whatever they all want to flood Canada with third world immigrants. They will work for cheap wages, and no benefits if need be. Just what the big corporations are all in favor of. The toll on our infrastructure, social/medicare services, and the environment will pay heavily for all these new third world immigrants coming to Canada. Why aren't the people involved in infrastructure, medical and social services, and the environmentalists not saying a word? These are the ones that should be saying something. Their silence is amazing. These same people would prefer to remain silent and find other politically correct excuses for why we have plenty of problems in Canada. Sad indeed. 

[taxme]

On 4/8/2017 at 3:20 PM, Army Guy said:

O leary would bring in the devil himself if he thought it would give him the support he needs, he is turning into a politician more and more everyday, canadians don't want more politicians ...we want someone to lead this country.............everything i have seen so far is he wants to please ....we already have a PM that wants to please everyone , but can't keep a promise ....What we need is a PM with leadership skills that will do what is best for the nation, if it is popular or not......i don't care if that's a liberal , cons, NDP...i'm tried of half wits and half measures.....Mr O'leary  show us some leadership....stop messing around with those liberal half baked ideas.....train Canadians for those positions, .  

O'Leary is probably the only guy in town that can truly show any leadership in Canada even though I do not agree with his immigration policy. I would prefer that Canada put a moratorium on all immigration for at least 7 years, if not longer. We need to get our own house in order, and try to get the approx. 2 million unemployed Canadians back to work. Why bring in hundreds of thousands of new legal and refugee immigrants into the country, and add more people to the welfare rolls. Once again common sense and logic are being omitted  in Canada by our phony politicians.  

[taxme]

On 4/8/2017 at 3:58 PM, Army Guy said:

How much money is spent on immigration and refugees every year in Canada ? Why not use that money to fund either child care, or increase child care benifits....Pay Canadians to have more babies......and then cut back on immigration.... 

Billions have been blown on new immigrants and refugees, and there appears to be no end in site. Indeed that money blown on all these new immigrants and refugees coming to Canada could have been better spent in Canada, on Canadians who could use that money. Canadians by the thousands are homeless but yet our governments can find housing for newbies and the taxpayer's of Canada can pay for it. Our immigration policy is all screwed up, and with the liberals in power, it will only get worse. 

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

You mean you can't train any Canadians to do anything? 35,000,000 people and no talent, really sucks eh? I can't believe people can have such a low opinion of their own countrymen.

No, I'm not saying that.  Of course many Canadians can do this work but we need more and these are well-paying jobs.  O'leary knows this.

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, dre said:

1) Its not just skilled workers that are important. Unskilled workers are just as important to the economy whether they pay taxes or not. We are almost at what economists consider "full employment". And because the numbers deviate regionally that means in some provinces you literally cannot find workers, or the workers you can find are so "bottom of the barrel" you are better off without them. I run a construction services company in BC... I cant even find people with a drivers license or bank account... never mind skills or work ethic.

Your point about capital vs people is bang on, and I have made exactly that point to you numerous times throughout the years. Moving the production to the cheap labor is economically no different than moving the cheap labor to production. If anything the latter is a better domestic option because its easier on the current account. There's less capital flight, and more taxes paid here at home.

2_ The bigger question is where we will end up under the banner of "being competitive". Right now it simply means that the countries that treat workers the worst and have the lowest environmental and labor standards are rewarded by investment in production. I bet that If I kept my workers in a cage and burned babies alive to create cheap energy,  I could make stuff pretty cheap. And under the current regime I would be rewarded because the "consumer ethics" aspect of the "free market" is gone.

1) These are good points and your personal experience is very relevant here.  There is the question, though, of wages and if there is no international competition in the business I would expect wages to rise.

2) We will end up with wages and markets that are more on par with each other and yes that includes environmental standards in the long term.

O'leary is in business and he knows that this is the world we are in now.

 

[ZenOps]

The really expensive homes that are being bought up are not being physically occupied by foreigners.

Its such a huge problem, that Vancouver has instituted the "empty home tax".  So on a $3 million home, you must pay an extra $30,000 in tax each year if its determined that it is unoccupied.

Truth be known, you can not make a decent enough wage living in Vancouver to actually buy a house.  Real estate for many is simply the Donald Trump version of investment, own a hotel that can house 3,000 people and then force everyone to pay rent to you.  In which case, its the purest form of capitalism.

Except that in the case of Vancouver and Toronto, its also a place to park money should the US ever make catastrophic mistakes in policy.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, I'm not saying that.  Of course many Canadians can do this work but we need more and these are well-paying jobs.  O'leary knows this.

Apparently O'leary doesn't know this policy hasn't been working so far, what is going to make his imports different then Trudeau's? The way things are going we should be giving plenty of jobs to imported "talent".

[H10]

8 hours ago, taxme said:

No, it was not Canadian white women who wanted women's rights and fought to have abortions to kill off their own babies. It was the elite zionists that planned it that way and made it happen. H. Morgentaler made millions from aborting white babies. Abortions became a make work projects for the likes of Morgentaler, and his ilk.   

Is morgentaler not white?

[dre]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

We bring in an awful lot of unskilled immigrants, or underskilled immigrants who can't find decent work.

Your judgement of what is "decent", and one dollar will get you a bus (maybe). The reality is that a low paying job is just as important to the economy. In fact studies have found that low income earners actually stimulate the economy more because they spend literally every penny they earn back into the economy.

And more to the point, and as I said before, your perspective is limited by the fact you don't understand what money is. You act like it gets spent one time, and is wasted... And you cite reports that completely ignore the macro-economic impact of growing the money supply, and the demand for goods and services, and the taxes paid by all the workers on the supply side. The reality is that any money the government gives, over and above what they collect in taxes will be spent into the economy, and it will be spent over and over again hundreds or thousands of times.

You talk like a person is useless if they don't pay taxes, but our economy is driven by consumption... not taxation. 

[dre]

13 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

You mean you can't train any Canadians to do anything? 35,000,000 people and no talent, really sucks eh? I can't believe people can have such a low opinion of their own countrymen.

The problem is that almost all Canadians already have jobs. So you are actually talking about training the ~5% of workers that havent been able to find gainful employment, or are too useless to even try. 

Canadians are as capable as anyone else, but yes... There's hundreds of thousands of people that have no real capacity to do anything at all. Some people are useless, and almost all the people that are not, are already employed.

[ZenOps]

Sure, but is it meaningful and productive employment.  You can put 1,000 monkeys on a 1,000 typewriters and depending on who you ask - eventually they will create the worlds greatest novel.

Alternately, can one robot do the work of 10,000 men for pennies worth of electricity and never complain?

[Argus]

17 hours ago, herples said:

If we train Canadians who will take up the job while those Canadians are being trained? Immigrants of course.

There is no skills shortage.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, dre said:

Its not just skilled workers that are important. Unskilled workers are just as important to the economy whether they pay taxes or not. We are almost at what economists consider "full employment". And because the numbers deviate regionally that means in some provinces you literally cannot find workers, or the workers you can find are so "bottom of the barrel" you are better off without them. I run a construction services company in BC... I cant even find people with a drivers license or bank account... never mind skills or work ethic.

Then maybe we should stop bringing over farmers and shop clerks from the middle east and China and bring over tradespeople from Portugal and Italy, huh?

[dre]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Then maybe we should stop bringing over farmers and shop clerks from the middle east and China and bring over tradespeople from Portugal and Italy, huh?

Maybe the economy needs farmers and shop clerks too?  Is food supposed to grow itself just because you don't want arabs here?

Edited April 12, 2017 by dre

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dre said:

Your judgement of what is "decent", and one dollar will get you a bus (maybe). The reality is that a low paying job is just as important to the economy. In fact studies have found that low income earners actually stimulate the economy more because they spend literally every penny they earn back into the economy.

No they are not. That's crap and it's going to be even more worthless a suggestion in the coming years, as automation takes over so many of these low skilled jobs. Many immigrants, btw, send every penny they can back overseas to their impoverished families.

1 hour ago, dre said:

You talk like a person is useless if they don't pay taxes, but our economy is driven by consumption... not taxation. 

You talk like a person whose mind is gripped by such a narrow tunnel vision he can't see what's an inch to either side. I am not interested in expanding the economy if it doesn't improve the economic well-being of Canadians already here. I have ZERO interest in growing our population unless it serves to improve the lives of those of us here now. People who come in and do not have jobs good enough to contribute to the tax base are net drains on that tax base, which means I and others are paying for their government services. That this might profit a bank or construction company does not matter to me in the slightest.  And yes, I recognize that more economic activity on their part means more taxes, but since the immigrants mean more government spending the only thing that matters is whether they balance, and right now they do not.

You also talk like there's only one choice. Take in goat herders who think a toilet is a magic fountain, or take in nobody. I have never advocated taking in nobody. I have advocated taking in the numbers we need for the economy, but taking in people who can best profit that economy - which seems to be about half what we're taking in now. And that is not goat herders. Nor is it people with masters degrees, real or imaginary, from third world universities not recognized here, where their credentials are meaningless. Someone with a masters degree who can barely speak English enough to ask directions is going to wind up driving a taxi. And we don't need any more taxi drivers. All the ones we have are going to be unemployed within ten years or so anyway.

 

[Argus]

7 minutes ago, dre said:

Maybe the economy needs farmers and shop clerks too?  Is food supposed to grow itself just because you don't want arabs here?

Again we see this incredibly bizarre fixation of the far left with race and Islam. I haven't said one single word about Arabs. I have spoken in general terms of immigrants. We've got lots of failed immigrants from around the world, yes, especially from the middle east, according to the government's own statistics. Also from China and Africa. But it's like the Left is so obsessed with defeating the slightest hint or challenge to the very idea of bringing in as many Muslims as we possibly can (the more extreme the better) that this is all they can think of whenever immigration comes up.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Argus