betsy Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Omni said: How many millions have been murdered in religious wars. That's what I'm afraid of. How many were murdered by atheists? Quote Communist regimes killed 60 million in the 20th century through genocide, according to Le Monde, more than 100 million people[2] according to The Black Book of Communism (Courtois, Stéphane, et al., 1997).[3] and according to Cleon Skousen[4] in his best-selling book The Naked Communist.[5] It is estimated that in the past 100 years, governments under the banner of atheistic communism have caused the death of somewhere between 40,472,000 and 259,432,000 human lives.[6] Dr. R. J. Rummel, professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii, is the scholar who first coined the term democide (death by government). Dr. R. J. Rummel's mid estimate regarding the loss of life due to communism is that communism caused the death of approximately 110,286,000 people between 1917 and 1987.[7] http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_Mass_Murder Edited April 2, 2017 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Omni said: And then I guess because you have bought in it therefore must be happening? "One born every minute" as the old saying goes. You're the one who has nothing to support your belief. Not me. Quote
Omni Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 1 minute ago, betsy said: You're the one who has nothing to support your belief. Not me. "praise god and pass the ammo". now put your money in the collection plate and shut up. Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 7 hours ago, blackbird said: God is perfect and infinite in all respects. It's not for us to question our almighty creator. He has given us an out. It is in the bible, especially the New Testament gospels. Life is difficult for many people and many suffer. But this is not God's fault. He is merciful and willing to forgive fallen men. This perfect god made a right mess of his perfect creation when from the outset he knew how it was all going to pan out but still Mr Perfection continued with his grand plan. Wanna buy a bridge? Quote
betsy Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 1 hour ago, hot enough said: This perfect god made a right mess of his perfect creation when from the outset he knew how it was all going to pan out but still Mr Perfection continued with his grand plan. Wanna buy a bridge? It's not God who made the mess. It's people. Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, betsy said: It's not God who made the mess. It's people. Who made the people, "in his image"? Who knew that there was going to be these mega FUs and still proceeded with his divine plan, to ensure that people would rape, murder, behead, dismember alive, garrot, steal from children their livelihood, do all these things and worse to those he made in his image? What time's church? Edited April 2, 2017 by hot enough Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 This isn't evidence for god, it's evidence for the incredible gullibility of people, something that is being regularly highlighted these days. The illustration of which, the incredible gullibility, that is, people are fleeing from like a biblical massacre. Quote
betsy Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, hot enough said: Who made the people, "in his image"? Thus, we know right from wrong. In other words, He equipped us. Who gave us critical thinking that we may be able to exercise our free will? That we may be able to make our choices? You think that's not part of the "plan." Quote Who knew that there was going to be these mega FUs and still proceeded with his divine plan, to ensure that people would rape, murder, behead, dismember alive, garrot, steal from children their livelihood, do all these things and worse to those he made in his image? Sure He knew all that. He knew too, who'll succumb to Satan.....and become Satan's lackeys. He knew too who'll see and come to realize their errors, and end up repenting and accepting Him. AND, He knew too, that there are those who'll make it. Those who will succeed and rise above all that. He knew those who'll get to His Kingdom when all this is over. Edited April 2, 2017 by betsy Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) Will Ted Haggard, Billy Graham, Tammy 'n what's his name Baker make the kingdom run? How does Mr all perfection order such a miserable, miscreant, evil plan. It doesn't make any sense, but that is the sum total of these tall tales - they make no sense, but still they are those who delude themselves, and what is so much worse delude children. Edited April 2, 2017 by hot enough Quote
betsy Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, hot enough said: Will Ted Haggard, Billy Graham, Tammy 'n what's his name Baker make the kingdom run? You should come to Christ now.......... ..........so you'll have the chance to see what unfolds...... and what happens to all those that are saved. You'll get the answer to your question. If you're not with Christ when you croak (which can happen anytime), you'll never get the brief on that. Edited April 2, 2017 by betsy Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, betsy said: You should come to Christ now, so you'll have the chance to see what unfolds and what happens to all those that are saved. Someone has obviously had an epiphany. Going from hell fire and brimstone to ... . Quote
betsy Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, hot enough said: Someone has obviously had an epiphany. Going from hell fire and brimstone to ... . You? "Get thee behind me, Satan." Edited April 2, 2017 by betsy Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, betsy said: "Get thee behind me, Satan." ... to a sweet and loving christian back to fire and brimstone in a flash. I was going to wish you a fond farewell and a happy life, Betsy. Fare thee well and all the best, Betsy. Quote
betsy Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, hot enough said: ... to a sweet and loving christian back to fire and brimstone in a flash. I was going to wish you a fond farewell and a happy life, Betsy. Fare thee well and all the best, Betsy. That was Jesus' response to Peter - who was used by Satan. Shows you, anyone can be deceived by Satan. Thus we have to be on guard. Take a break from your 9/11 and spreading of fake information (which amount to lies). Something is restless about you.... Come to Christ, hot enough. It's never too late. That's the very best I can hope - and pray - for you..... ........a happy ETERNAL life. Edited April 2, 2017 by betsy 1 Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, betsy said: Take a break from your 9/11 and spreading of fake information (which amount to lies). Something is restless about you.... Why do you mention this unspeakable thing, yet you jump all over anyone who ever raises it in one of your topics? It's dishonest, and unchristian, to malign someone when you yourself aren't able to address those same issues in any honest manner. Quote
blackbird Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 11 hours ago, Omni said: More realism than cynicism. There is no day of salvation. And are you trying to conflate god and trump somehow? wowzy! No. The Trump documentary just happened to be starting when I shut down last night. I pray there is a day of salvation for you. Quote
blackbird Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Peter F said: The living God touched my mothers life very personaly by having her father engage her in sexual congress whenever he came back from his prospecting forays. Being a god-fearing Christian, he would read passages from the bible to her afterwards to cleanse her of sin because he cared dearly for her soul. Testimony don't mean shit. It's what one does each day that matters. Sorry to hear about those kind of things. I will say I lived in a small town and attended a dutch reformed church for most of 25 years although I am not dutch descent. The dutch people in the reformed churches in the town were generally a hard-working God-fearing people. Large percentages of the dutch community did attend church and send their kids to christian schools. Their children attended school from the time they were born and many of them were hard-working and started their own businesses which were often quite successful. They spend holiday weekends with their families. When a mother or father is ill, their children or others in the church will often deliver meals to the ill persons and help them. They help their children and children often heIp their parents. I have seen it first hand. Many members of their families went to church together. They had a strong sense of maintaining close family ties and helping each other. They feared God and depended on him to take care of them. They married into the dutch community often. Some of them had very successful businesses and contributed a lot to building their churches and christian schools. A lot of them had a strong belief in the Calvinist work ethic. Of course there is the odd one who went astray. Some had some difficulties in life. Lots of families had four, five, six or more kids. Generally I would say they were good-living Canadians who contributed to the community. This doesn't mean that nobody ever made mistakes in there life. People do sometimes fall into temptation. But they have a strong belief in a loving God who is merciful and forgiving. Edited April 2, 2017 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 2 hours ago, hot enough said: Will Ted Haggard, Billy Graham, Tammy 'n what's his name Baker make the kingdom run? How does Mr all perfection order such a miserable, miscreant, evil plan. It doesn't make any sense, but that is the sum total of these tall tales - they make no sense, but still they are those who delude themselves, and what is so much worse delude children. Jimmy Bakker has a daily television program on satellite television and goes on a number of networks to many viewers. He did fall into some financial irregularities 20 or more years, went to prison for five years and paid his penalty. He has since made an amazing comeback and is doing well. I listen to him occasionally. He is fine, but getting older and has his health issues. He remarried years ago and has a nice wife who God saved as well. Christians believe God forgives sinners, including christians who fall. Jesus said he came not for the righteous, but for sinners. He came to save sinners. The bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Quote
Omni Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, blackbird said: Sorry to hear about those kind of things. I will say I lived in a small town and attended a dutch reformed church for most of 25 years although I am not dutch descent. The dutch people in the reformed churches in the town were generally a hard-working God-fearing people. Large percentages of the dutch community did attend church and send their kids to christian schools. Their children attended school from the time they were born and many of them were hard-working and started their own businesses which were often quite successful. They spend holiday weekends with their families. When a mother or father is ill, their children or others in the church will often deliver meals to the ill persons and help them. They help their children and children often heIp their parents. I have seen it first hand. Many members of their families went to church together. They had a strong sense of maintaining close family ties and helping each other. They feared God and depended on him to take care of them. They married into the dutch community often. Some of them had very successful businesses and contributed a lot to building their churches and christian schools. A lot of them had a strong belief in the Calvinist work ethic. Of course there is the odd one who went astray. Some had some difficulties in life. Lots of families had four, five, six or more kids. Generally I would say they were good-living Canadians who contributed to the community. This doesn't mean that nobody ever made mistakes in there life. People do sometimes fall into temptation. But they have a strong belief in a loving God who is merciful and forgiving. All those same things happened where/when I grew up except nobody had to fear god to know how to do such things and we didn't depend on some sort of made up mystical higher power to take care of us. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 19 hours ago, blackbird said: The creation of the universe is absolute evidence, proof, whatever you want to call it. The complexity and laws of physics, the minutest particles making up the atoms, molecules, everything cannot have come into existence without a divine creator who designed it and brought it into being. There is no other viable explanation. Even great scientists like Isaac Newton believed in God. Science is not infallible either. Theories about things have often been found later to be incorrect and have been discarded. Theories such as the sun revolves around the earth, the cause of fire were discarded. It's not proof at all. The only fact is that we don't know. We have absolutely zero idea what exists beyond our universe, or how it was created, and the processes that led that to happen. It's possible you're correct. All possibilities are on the table. We used to think humans were so complex that they were created from scratch by a divine intelligence, but that's proven false, and we're merely the product of millions of years of natural selection of random mutations. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 On 2017-04-01 at 2:05 PM, BubberMiley said: What was God before the Beginning? Did He exist at all or was He formed along with the Creation He Created? Science would suggest there is no evidence of things existing before things existed so maybe He Is Creation Itself? That seems redundant though. Exactly. If the universe is too complex to be created without a super-intelligent creator, than what or who created God? Did God just appear out of thin air from nothing? That's impossible according to those who believe the universe couldn't be formed from nothing. If God was formed from some other kind of energy or matter, what created that energy/matter? Our understanding of what can or can't exist is based on our limited rules of our own universe like space, time, and matter, but we have no idea if things can exist beyond this. It's silly to even make guesses because we know so little. It's like a dog trying to understand advanced calculus, it could be beyond our brain's and senses' capabilities to understand. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
blackbird Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: We used to think humans were so complex that they were created from scratch by a divine intelligence, but that's proven false, and we're merely the product of millions of years of natural selection of random mutations. It has not been proven false. It cannot be proven false. There is absolutely nothing that can "prove" that God didn't create the universe. The natural selection theory of random mutations has been rejected by some scientists. I saw a christian scientist who once was an atheist and believed all that, but did a lot of investigation and came to the conclusion that the theory of random selection is false. He is a mathematician as well and demonstrated that the theory of probability just does not support the theory of natural selection. He demonstrated on a slide presentation that it just doesn't work because the probability of natural selection is too small for it to work. He likened it to a monkey being given a typewriter and given enough time to randomly hit the keys. How long would it take for him to type out the complete works of Shakespeare? Practically speaking, forever. Same with natural selection. There just isn't enough time for it to randomly select the right building blocks of life to produce life. Mathematical theories of probability show natural selection would not work. Incidentally, Professor Stott attended conferences on evolution/creation all over the world and demonstrated why the theory of natural selection is false. I attended Professor Philip Stott's five evening slide show presentations on a variety of creation related science subjects. Very informative. He makes the case from a scientific point of view that evolution is false. I made a series of five videos of his presentations. Also saw him several years later and attended his three evening presentations. He was originally from England but studied in South Africa and became Mathematician professor. He showed how Darwin was wrong. How the geological time chart is inconclusive because there are huge missing gaps in the time chart. Edited April 2, 2017 by blackbird Quote
hot enough Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 3 hours ago, blackbird said: Jesus said he came not for the righteous, but for sinners. He came to save sinners. There's always another contradiction lurking around the corner to solve the contradiction that precedes it. Why would such a perfect being have ever made up such a crazy soap opera story. If you tried to sell this garbage to a US soap opera mogul, he would likely buy it. Quote
blackbird Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 49 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: It's not proof at all. The only fact is that we don't know. We have absolutely zero idea what exists beyond our universe, or how it was created, and the processes that led that to happen. It's possible you're correct. All possibilities are on the table. We used to think humans were so complex that they were created from scratch by a divine intelligence, but that's proven false, and we're merely the product of millions of years of natural selection of random mutations. Isaac Newton who was a scientist who studied the physical laws of the universe believed in God. He had enough sense to know the physical laws that govern the universe couldn't just happen or come into being themselves. He new they needed a divine creator. Quote
blackbird Posted April 2, 2017 Report Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: Exactly. If the universe is too complex to be created without a super-intelligent creator, than what or who created God? Did God just appear out of thin air from nothing? That's impossible according to those who believe the universe couldn't be formed from nothing. If God was formed from some other kind of energy or matter, what created that energy/matter? Our understanding of what can or can't exist is based on our limited rules of our own universe like space, time, and matter, but we have no idea if things can exist beyond this. It's silly to even make guesses because we know so little. It's like a dog trying to understand advanced calculus, it could be beyond our brain's and senses' capabilities to understand. We know God created the universe and that he always existed. He is not limited by time, matter or anything else. He is not made of matter. God is a spirit. We know all this because God has revealed himself and what he did in the Bible. The fact God created everything is described in the first part of Genesis in the Bible. He always was. No need to speculate on anything beyond that. You limit God when you think of him in terms of matter. He is not made of matter. Spirit is not matter. God's spirit is present everywhere and upholds and sustains the universe. It might be too much for you to believe but there is no rational alternative. You are correct, our "human" understanding of the universe is based on things like time, space, and matter. But God is far beyond that. That is where many people run into trouble because they think only in terms of matter. Edited April 2, 2017 by blackbird Quote
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