betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: We used to think humans were so complex that they were created from scratch by a divine intelligence, but that's proven false, and we're merely the product of millions of years of natural selection of random mutations. Who's "we?" Surely not the sensible scientists scratching their heads over that crap. So.....how did this so-called random mutation start? Start from the beginning! It gotta start somewhere. That's where it gets tricky, isn't it? Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 23 minutes ago, betsy said: Who's "we?" Surely not the sensible scientists scratching their heads over that crap. So.....how did this so-called random mutation start? Start from the beginning! It gotta start somewhere. That's where it gets tricky, isn't it? Not tricky at all. Throw the dice enough times eventually you get 7-11. Sorry to disillusion you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, Omni said: Not tricky at all. Throw the dice enough times eventually you get 7-11. Sorry to disillusion you. Okay....if we'll continue with macroevolution, we'll do it in that macroevolution thread. I'll get back to you there....later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) A TRANSFORMED life is an evidence for God - what more when you have them by the thousands! A lot of these people not only had their lives transformed, they end up working for God. Some changes were dramatic - from trying to debunk God and instead, to becoming a believer, and an apologist for Christianity. William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Simon Greenleaf, Frank Morrison, etc.., When you're passionate about something like an ideology - what would it take to suddenly make you turn around 180 degrees? Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, betsy said: A TRANSFORMED life is an evidence for God - what more when you have them by the thousands! And so just how is that evidence of gawd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Omni said: And so just how is that evidence of gawd? If we have one witness saying you carjacked and drove off with the car - it is plausible that you did it, and it is plausible too that the witness may've been confused about it. If we have 5 witnesses who don't know each other, saying the same thing about you - that you carjacked and drove off with the car - what do you think? Are they all confused? What if there were 100 witnesses who all point to you as the one who carjacked and drove off with the car - are they all making it up? What if there are thousands of them? All, pointing to you? Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, betsy said: If we have one witness saying you carjacked and drove off with the car - it is plausible that you did it, and it is plausible too that the witness may've been confused about it. If we have 5 witnesses who don't know each other, saying the same thing about you - that you carjacked and drove off with the car - what do you think? Are they all confused? What if there were 100 witnesses who all point to you as the one who carjacked and drove off with the car - are they all making it up? What if there thousands of them? Thousands of people read Peter Pan and Tinkerbell amd enjoyed and believed in it imimmensely. But them we grew up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Omni said: Thousands of people read Peter Pan and Tinkerbell amd enjoyed and believed in it imimmensely. But them we grew up. Omni, I'll have to ignore you until you have something sensible to say..... I understand that philosophical discussion isn't for everyone. Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, betsy said: Omni, I'll have to ignore you until you have something sensible to say..... Sorry, I don't like the taste of the pablum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Gawd you're a gay basher too? Yet another scary aspect of religious people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Michael Glatze was a gay activist. The same thing happened to this gay rights activist - the publisher of Venus magazine. Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) We see people from various fields......transformed, and working for God, in their own way. Robert Melnichuk interviews J. Warner Wallace. A former homicide detective and author of Cold Case Christianity. Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) There's one born (or is it born again) every minute. Edited April 3, 2017 by Omni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Again, let me say this: If we have one witness saying you carjacked and drove off with the car - it is plausible that you did it, and it is plausible too that the witness may've been confused about it. If we have 5 witnesses who don't know each other, saying the same thing about you - that you carjacked and drove off with the car - what do you think? Are they all confused? What if there were 100 witnesses who all point to you as the one who carjacked and drove off with the car - are they all making it up? What if there are thousands of them? All, pointing to you? Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 And, among those thousands, were those who weren't sure what they'd witnessed..... .......but upon retrospection, they became convinced that indeed, it couldn't be anyone but you. It was you who carjacked and drove off with the car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 3 hours ago, betsy said: Who's "we?" Surely not the sensible scientists scratching their heads over that crap. What I meant is, humans used to believe that humans were created not by evolution but in their final form by a divine being just like in the Genesis portrayal. Science hasn't figured out the origin of how life initially began. Could it have been from a divine being? Well, there's no evidence for that but it can't be disproven either based on what we know. We just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: What I meant is, humans used to believe that humans were created not by evolution but in their final form by a divine being just like in the Genesis portrayal. Science hasn't figured out the origin of how life initially began. Could it have been from a divine being? Well, there's no evidence for that but it can't be disproven either based on what we know. We just don't know. There is nothing to support the atheist stance on the beginning of life. None at all. On the other hand, even science concedes that.... Quote "Many religious persons, including many scientists, hold that God created the universe and the various processes driving physical and biological evolution and that these processes then resulted in the creation of galaxies, our solar system, and life on Earth. This belief, which sometimes is termed 'theistic evolution,' is not in disagreement with scientific explanations of evolution. Indeed, it reflects the remarkable and inspiring character of the physical universe revealed by cosmology, paleontology, molecular biology, and many other scientific disciplines." https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/site/faq.html The only thing they need is the smoking gun, so to speak. Maybe, something that's stamped: Made by God. Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 22 hours ago, blackbird said: saac Newton who was a scientist who studied the physical laws of the universe believed in God. This is illustrative of the lengths christians will go to in order to deceive. THeir beliefs are of such a simplistic nature that they will believe any old story. "Like many contemporaries (e.g., Thomas Aikenhead) he lived with the threat of severe punishment if he had been open about his religious beliefs. Heresy was a crime that could have been punishable by the loss of all property and status or even death (see, e.g., the Blasphemy Act 1697). Because of his secrecy over his religious beliefs, Newton has been described as a Nicodemite.[9]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, betsy said: There is nothing to support the atheist stance on the beginning of life. None at all. On the other hand, even science concedes that.... https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/site/faq.html The only thing they need is the smoking gun, so to speak. Maybe, something that's stamped: Made by God. You could quote 10,000 scientists saying they believe in God or they believe that God created the universe, but it doesn't mean anything without evidence. What I would ask these scientists is to show me what evidence they have to believe such a conclusion. They have none. They have absolutely zero empirical reason to believe the universe was created by a God or 10 Gods or an alien from another universe or was created by nothing but a blob of lifeless energy without intelligence. The only rational, scientific conclusion we can make is that WE DON'T KNOW. There is lack of evidence (ZERO) to support ANY theory on what created the universe, if anything. Same with the beginning of life on earth, science has a few hypotheses but as far as I know very little to no evidence to support any of them so as of now we just don't know. This is why belief in God and God's creation of the universe/life still rests on faith. Edited April 3, 2017 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: You could quote 10,000 scientists saying they believe in God or they believe that God created the universe, but it doesn't mean anything without evidence. What I would ask these scientists is to show me what evidence they have to believe such a conclusion. They have none. They have absolutely zero empirical reason to believe the universe was created by a God or 10 Gods or an alien from another universe or was created by nothing but a blob of lifeless energy without intelligence. The only rational, scientific conclusion we can make is that WE DON'T KNOW. There is lack of evidence (ZERO) to support ANY theory on what created the universe, if anything. Same with the beginning of life on earth, science has a few hypotheses but as far as I know very little to no evidence to support any of them so as of now we just don't know. This is why belief in God and God's creation of the universe/life still rests on faith. You're missing the point, Moonlight. We're talking about the POSSIBILITY of God's existence! There are numerous evidences that support its possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 And blind faith at that. But I don't really have a problem with it if it works for some to help allay their fears about what happens after death and such things. It's when they get pushy and want the rest of us who don't buy the pablum, especially children, and try to put fear into them to make them follow their same path that I think is frightening and should be repelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, betsy said: You're missing the point, Moonlight. We're talking about the POSSIBILITY of God's existence! There are numerous evidences that support its possibility. So let's hear some of these "evidences" And please, we don't need glowing red fonts etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Omni said: So let's hear some of these "evidences" And please, we don't need glowing red fonts etc. Do your homework. Some are already given. Edited April 3, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, betsy said: Do your homework. Some are already given. My homework has already told me what I need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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