Michael Hardner Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Hi - we're trying to be proactive here in keeping people on topic. There are other threads on 9/11. Use them please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, hot enough said: That is such terribly ignorant pro forma garbage. "Listen, do exactly as we see in this free and open society or you're outta here". Never once filling immigrants in on the genocide, the war crimes, the terrorism, the support for a country that murders their kin and steals their kin's wealth. "Welcome to democracy, immigrants, now shut your mouths and toe the party line." All of that is simply your own bizarre interpretation of world events as watched through the foggy and distorted vision of internet conspiracy sites. Edited March 17, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Argus said: We prefer to have sane immigrants anyway, so none of the above would ever enter into the decision making process. These realities never enter into any discussions in the free, open "democracies". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: These realities never enter into any discussions in the free, open "democracies". Only among those who spend a lot of time on strange conspiracy websites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Argus said: Only among those who spend a lot of time on strange conspiracy websites. Why would you say something like that that is completely false? Is the University of Alaska a conspiracy website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 hours ago, kactus said: I cannot say I have and therefore not qualify to give commentary... I am visiting Toronto this summer for vacation to see some of my immigrant relatives.... I just believe it is wrong to paint all immigrants with one brush and find it stupid to apply one rule for everyone just like the way I have argued against Trumps stupid ban on innocent immigrants from those countries.... It's too bad because if you go there this summer you won't be able to compare and see how it's changed over the last ten years. Check out the downtown core, Yonge St at night. By about 10 pm the worst types you can imagine are on the street, everywhere. Drug dealers, pimps, bad dudes. You will notice a disturbing trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 21 hours ago, eyeball said: We're as much a bunch of terrorists as the people retaliating against us. We started this so-called war when we shrugged off our highest values and principles by trucking and trading with dictators and their allies and enablers. It's easy to blame the west, and it feeds to one's self-loathing complex. However it is a really simple-minded view, IMO. You might recall things like the cold war and intense competition among global powers to control the resources of foreign, undeveloped lands. Various places around the world are viewed as "strategic locations" for this power struggle, nothing more nothing less. It is not possible for the west to just sit back and let things take their own course. As soon as they do, the "bad guys" will move right in, in no time. By and large most people would agree that they'd rather be ruled by outsiders from the west than by the likes of the USSR or China. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 30 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: It's too bad because if you go there this summer you won't be able to compare and see how it's changed over the last ten years. Check out the downtown core, Yonge St at night. By about 10 pm the worst types you can imagine are on the street, everywhere. Drug dealers, pimps, bad dudes. You will notice a disturbing trend. The place I will be staying is Richmond Hill. They have a house there and we are planning to spend some time at their family house by the lake. I am not familiar with those areas but if they are as you say they are then probably won't want to spoil the holiday..., I guess you get these slumps everywhere regardless of immigration. Bad apples... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Yonge Street probably seems scary to out-of-towners. It seems fine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Yonge Street probably seems scary to out-of-towners. It seems fine to me. The comment was in regards to whether multiculturalism is working in Canada. No one said anything about scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 "By about 10 pm the worst types you can imagine are on the street, everywhere. Drug dealers, pimps, bad dudes. You will notice a disturbing trend." What does this mean then? Anyway, the city goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 It means the place is crawling with scumbags. The disturbing trend is they're mostly non-white. Here is a cite for you: Youth from lower-income families are more likely to self-identify as gang members, but membership cuts across lower, middle and upper income categories. One study found that although Black, South Asian and Hispanic youth in Toronto are more likely to report gang activity than youth of other ethnicities, 27% of criminal youth gang members self-identify as white (followed by 23% Black, 3% Aboriginal, 18% South Asian, 17% Asian, 5% Middle Eastern and 7% Hispanic). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto Hence it's not a poverty issue, but one in which various separate groups have difficulty identifying with our cultural values and laws. Instead they choose to live in a separate sub-culture of their own, among people from their home lands, according to their customs. In fact multiculturalism is a failure for this very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Ok, I don't know what we'resupposed to do with this information. Will ending multiculturalism mean more white gangs then? What you have here is an observation. And I don't agree, still, that Yonge St is as described. Are these personal experiences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: The disturbing trend is they're mostly non-white. This is one of the most confused posts I have ever read. And I dare say, racist. I'm more than willing to accept white gangs but all the other non-white gangs, well they are just scumbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 I think it's an observation. You have to jump to the conclusions to determine what is being said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 56 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: The comment was in regards to whether multiculturalism is working in Canada. No one said anything about scary. I am struggling to fathom what point it is you are trying to make....On one hand you are saying that multi culturalism has failed. Then you say this: Quote 27% of criminal youth gang members self-identify as white (followed by 23% Black, 3% Aboriginal, 18% South Asian, 17% Asian, 5% Middle Eastern and 7% Hispanic). How can the gang related issues in Toronto be the result of failed multi culturalism when your own source states that the majority of the gang related crimes is committed by youth gang members who identify themselves as white! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 What we should do is what we are doing right now, talk about it. My view is that multiculturalism sounded like a good idea. It was based on western concept of live and let live. What's happened though is diverse cultures did not share and rejoice in one another. Immigrants naturally concentrate into separate groups. It should be a no-brainer that some people from a foreign country, who only speak a foreign language will find it much easier to live among their own 'kind', like in a little Italy or what have you. That's fine, except when we bring in people whose culture is really different. In fact what happens is they become "disenfranchised" from any sort of national identity. In a certain way it is a disadvantage economically. If you think of the west as "white people doing well", and non-whites not so well, they are not well accepted, not engaged. Multiculturalism failed them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 It all sounds anecdotal. Italians? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, kactus said: I am struggling to fathom what point it is you are trying to make....On one hand you are saying that multi culturalism has failed. Then you say this: How can the gang related issues in Toronto be the result of failed multi culturalism when your own source states that the majority of the gang related crimes is committed by youth gang members who identify themselves as white! Add the numbers up this way friend- Demographic of gang members in Toronto 23% "White" 76 % "Non white" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Were the whites Italian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: It all sounds anecdotal. Note where I said "My view is..." Also in case you read that too quickly I said "That's fine, except...". Italians, Portuguese, Germans are westernized. Their nations laws based on Christianity thanks to the old Holy Roman Empire. Their attitude toward women etc. in their homeland very similar to Canada's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 This is cross line of showing racism towards non whites at large IMO. The way I read your statement is that it has nothing to do with law abiding immigrants but everything to do with the colour of their skin. And as long as they are not white their values cannot be compatible with Canadians. Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying failed multicuturalism is because of non white immigrants coming to Canada? If that is the case and this is your opinion then fine but I personally don't share that sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, kactus said: Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying failed multicuturalism is because of non white immigrants coming to Canada? If that is the case and this is your opinion then fine but I personally don't share that sentiment. My view is it's a cultural problem, NOT skin colour, not nationality necessarily,and not spiritualism. If you read what I said, multiculturalism not only fails us, it fails the immigrants as well. Therefore I accept that immigrants could live among us, -any immigrants- provided that we help them integrate. That's what we need to do. We've done a poor job of it because of misguided concerns about "racism". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 7 hours ago, OftenWrong said: It is not possible for the west to just sit back and let things take their own course. As soon as they do, the "bad guys" will move right in, in no time. There it is! When all else fails fill your diapers. Hype the fear and pump the loathing...works every time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 3 hours ago, OftenWrong said: My view is it's a cultural problem, NOT skin colour, not nationality necessarily,and not spiritualism. If you read what I said, multiculturalism not only fails us, it fails the immigrants as well. Therefore I accept that immigrants could live among us, -any immigrants- provided that we help them integrate. That's what we need to do. We've done a poor job of it because of misguided concerns about "racism". Agreed. It's fairly obvious, I think, that cultures have a much greater chance of getting along the more barbaric cultural practices are left at the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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