EU escalates 'visa war' with US

[bush_cheney2004]

On 3/5/2017 at 3:54 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

The USA is less attractive for me than it used to be. I go there when I have to. Their customs officials are rude. 

 

Then why does the USA figure in your travel plans at all ?  

I never have a need to travel north of the border....no reason to do so.

Should I only travel to foreign countries when I agree with their politics ?

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then why does the USA figure in your travel plans at all ?  

I never have a need to travel north of the border....no reason to do so.

Should I only travel to foreign countries when I agree with their politics ?

Why do countries figure in plans? For the usual reasons. Relatives etc. 

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, SpankyMcFarland said:

Why do countries figure in plans? For the usual reasons. Relatives etc.

 

So what ?    If entry is denied then go someplace else or stay home.  

Use Skype...another American gift.

Why it is a big time drama queen meltdown when a border agent does his/her job ?

Playing the indignant boycott game is just petulance.  

 

[?Impact]

26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Use Skype...another American gift.

You really need to get over that over inflated national ego. Niklas Zennström is Swedish, and Janus Friis is Danish.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, ?Impact said:

You really need to get over that over inflated national ego.

 

No....I love my over inflated national ego.    Microsoft has owned Skype since 2011.  

Don't like the USA national ego ?   Then stay out...please.

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So what ?    If entry is denied then go someplace else or stay home.  

Use Skype...another American gift.

Why it is a big time drama queen meltdown when a border agent does his/her job ?

Playing the indignant boycott game is just petulance.  

 

1. I have never been denied entry to the US but I have witnessed officials being gratuitously rude to other travellers on multiple occasions.

2. Skype for funerals? 

3. No drama queen meltdown, sunshine - just witnessing thuggish behaviour. 

4. No boycott either. I will still go when I have to. 

Have you ever visited Canada? 

[bush_cheney2004]

48 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

1. I have never been denied entry to the US but I have witnessed officials being gratuitously rude to other travellers on multiple occasions.

 

Oh great....never been denied but rudely admitted to the USA !    Is this a SJW thing ?

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2. Skype for funerals?

 

Why not ?   Think of the greenhouse gases that will be saved.    I like the idea.

 

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3. No drama queen meltdown, sunshine - just witnessing thuggish behaviour.

 

See #1 again.   Dealing with illegals and smugglers all day can make one bitter.

 

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4. No boycott either. I will still go when I have to. 

Have you ever visited Canada? 

 

Right...go if/when you want to gain entry on U.S. terms....or go elsewhere.  No drama required either way.

Have I "visited" Canada ?  Yes....several times in a military capacity (Esquimalt port calls, Nanoose Range weapons testing, etc....no passports or CBSA border guards required.    Oh, and one time in the 80's to drive from Ann Arbor to Buffalo the easy way...border entry and transit were not otherwise memorable.  

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Oh great....never been denied but rudely admitted to the USA !    Is this a SJW thing ?

 

Why not ?   Think of the greenhouse gases that will be saved.    I like the idea.

 

 

See #1 again.   Dealing with illegals and smugglers all day can make one bitter.

 

 

1. No, it is a good manners thing. 

2. A non-starter.

3. They are professionals who should be courteous.  

 

 

[kactus]

58 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

1. No, it is a good manners thing. 

2. A non-starter.

3. They are professionals who should be courteous.  

 

 

3. They are not peofessionals at all. They are abusing their power. Nothing courteous about this behaviour....

[bush_cheney2004]

8 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

3. They are professionals who should be courteous. 

 

Many are...some aren't...just as in any profession.  

Canadians/Americans/Mexicans have no right to cross the border, and no right to be treated with sensitive, kid gloves.

Don't like it ?....go elsewhere.

[SpankyMcFarland]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Many are...some aren't...just as in any profession.  

Canadians/Americans/Mexicans have no right to cross the border, and no right to be treated with sensitive, kid gloves.

Don't like it ?....go elsewhere.

Every traveller deserves respect. That is not a new standard in a civilized society. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Every traveller deserves respect. That is not a new standard in a civilized society. 

 

To paint all U.S. border agents with the same brush is not very respectful either.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

To paint all U.S. border agents with the same brush is not very respectful either.  

I certainly don't mean to do that. I have been travelling to the US for over forty years and, in the vast majority of trips, have seen no problem at all. I do notice an increase in agents shouting at people, usually people who appear not to speak English well. There's no point to this. It just stresses everybody out.    

[dre]

On 3/4/2017 at 0:10 PM, Michael Hardner said:

There should be no 'local' morality.  Open all borders, and make individuals trackable.

Anonymity and national sovereignty are useless concepts, IMO.

That's a pretty uninformed opinion. Its blatantly obvious why those things can be useful.  The decentralization of decision making that comes with  having self governing nations, or even better... provinces, means that decisions are made by people that are at least familiar with the circumstances and challenges in those regions. That's exactly why the EU is falling apart, and is ultimately doomed and should be replaced by a more traditional trade agreement. 

[-TSS-]

20 minutes ago, dre said:

That's a pretty uninformed opinion. Its blatantly obvious why those things can be useful.  The decentralization of decision making that comes with  having self governing nations, or even better... provinces, means that decisions are made by people that are at least familiar with the circumstances and challenges in those regions. That's exactly why the EU is falling apart, and is ultimately doomed and should be replaced by a more traditional trade agreement. 

Many Brits who were old enough to vote already in the 1975-referendum and voted to stay in the then EEC have said that they were fooled to think it is just a trade-agreement between independent nations. The same people voted in large numbers for Brexit last year.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I certainly don't mean to do that. I have been travelling to the US for over forty years and, in the vast majority of trips, have seen no problem at all. I do notice an increase in agents shouting at people, usually people who appear not to speak English well. There's no point to this. It just stresses everybody out.    

 

And I would argue that the job has become more stressful for all concerned, regardless of language skills.   Visas and prescreening programs are just the first layer of defense against all kinds of nefarious/illegal intentions.   An experienced border agent or customs official recognizes certain cues and pursues those to his/her satisfaction.   Being nervous or stressed out at the border is a red flag.

EU and other visa issues pre-date Trump by many years.   There are many web sites dedicated to individuals and their long sob stories about trying to gain entry into the UnIted States, Canada, and other nations after being denied/deported.   Immigration lawyers run a cottage internet industry making money on people who don't know the laws or are trying to get around them.    It's amazing how many scams some people try to run to gain entry.

[-TSS-]

I guess there are a lot of people who simultaneosly support this travel-restriction and make jokes about Americans never travelling abroad.

Namely, a lot of people around the world make fun of Americans how only 1/3 of them even have a passport and how many Americans have never been abroad. Of course most of those people are Europeans for whom crossing the national borders is a piece of cake due to short distances and the Schengen-agreement.

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

An experienced border agent or customs official recognizes certain cues and pursues those to his/her satisfaction. Being nervous or stressed out at the border is a red flag.

The last incident I saw was in March 2016 in Calgary airport. The official was yelling at an elderly Chinese man in front of me. The only person who looked entirely unbothered by this performance was the old man himself. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[BillyBeaver]

On 3/4/2017 at 1:27 PM, Michael Hardner said:

It's already here - on both counts.

What benefits will dropping our national borders to international businesses and unrestricted immigration have for the Canadians already here?

[Michael Hardner]

25 minutes ago, BillyBeaver said:

What benefits will dropping our national borders to international businesses and unrestricted immigration have for the Canadians already here?

Money, and mobility are two that come to mind.

[BillyBeaver]

As well as a complete overwhelming of our social structures and eradication of Canadian culture, quite the price to pay so rich jerkoffs can do business without borders.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, BillyBeaver said:

As well as a complete overwhelming of our social structures and eradication of Canadian culture, quite the price to pay so rich jerkoffs can do business without borders.

I don't think you could offer social services to migrants without revenue support for that.  The business people can do business without borders now, why shouldn't people be able to move along with the money ?

[BillyBeaver]

I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.

[Michael Hardner]

That's good, because I was drifting the thread anyway.

 

Back to the EU Visa war then...

[Argus]

20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's good, because I was drifting the thread anyway.

 

Back to the EU Visa war then...

There is no visa war. The US doesn't give a damn if the EU wants to force Americans to get visas. Trump will just tell Americans to stay home because its better for the US economy. And the major European countries that rely on tourism will never vote in a visa for Americans on the basis of America needing visas from the likes of Romania.