Army Guy Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 This topic has been beaten up and down a million times, with most agreeing to disagree....and yet some of the same old myths are still being passed as facts....so i'll bring up a few and someone else can fill us in on the others. Afghanistan was all about big oil, rumours had it Afghanistan sat on huge oil reserves, while it is true there are some oil dereks in Afghanistan, not enough to make it profitable or even bring in enough profit to show up on a GDP indicator chart...... It was all about a pipe line, fact is there is no pipeline, never was , never will be, because it presents a huge target that can not be defended, not by NATO, and Not by Afghanistan troops...now i never say never, but it would take a huge reliable source to convince me other wise.... Quote In the 90s, the American Unocal Corporation considered in addition to the Trans-Afghanistan Gas Pipeline building also a 1,000 miles (1,600 km) long 1,000,000 barrels per day (~5.0×107 t/a) oil pipeline to link Türkmenabat (former Chardzou), Turkmenistan to Pakistan's Arabian Sea Coast. Through the Omsk (Russia) – Pavlodar (Kasakhstan) – Shymkent – Türkmenabat pipeline, it would provide a possible alternative export route for regional oil production from the Caspian Sea. The pipeline was expected to cost US$2.5 billion. However, due to political and security instability, this project was dismissed. . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Oil_Pipeline Quote The Turkmenistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan–India Pipeline (TAPI), also known as Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline, is a natural gas pipeline being developed by the Asian Development Bank.[1] The pipeline will transport Caspian Sea natural gas from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan into Pakistan and then to India.[2] Construction on the project started in Turkmenistan on 13 December 2015. The pipeline is expected to be operational by 2019.[1] The abbreviation TAPI comes from the first letters of those countries. Proponents of the project see it as a modern continuation of the Silk Road.[3][4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan–India_Pipeline According to this source in 2016, No construction has begun in Afghanistan portion of the Natural gas pipe line http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/current-affairs/tapi-project-pact-inked-for-36200-mn-investmentstudies_6193081.html Which leads me to ask a few of those questions that might be deal breakers.....Why invest bils upon bils of not only military actions but also investments in Afghanistan's economy when there are no prospects of OIL or Gas itself, but instead a pipe line that ran through Afghanistan not starting in Aghanistan.....A pipe line that has since been built , around afghanistan....not through it....So Afghanistan would have received at best royalties for the pipe line routes....but enough to pay for all that security, all that other stuff that goes with a pipe line....enough to start a war over it....come on thats a big leap.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Lithium, gold, potash, iron ore, cobalt, copper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHackerMP Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Materials which you can probably find in Canada, too. And the United States for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altai Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 8 hours ago, ?Impact said: Lithium, gold, potash, iron ore, cobalt, copper. Heroin ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Seems to be a rule against cross posting. So, just a link to the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: Materials which you can probably find in Canada, too. And the United States for that matter. $1 Trillion Motherlode of Lithium and Gold Discovered in Afghanistan http://www.mining.com/1-trillion-motherlode-of-lithium-and-gold-discovered-in-afghanistan/ The US supported and helped the Taliban to power because there were US companies seeking oil and gas pipeline rights across Afghanistan from the Caspian Basin to Pakistan. Why was this vicious group being wined and dined in the US, taken on tours like to Mt Rushmore? Edited February 28, 2017 by hot enough clearer explanation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 4 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: Materials which you can probably find in Canada, too. And the United States for that matter. It's not quite as easy to concoct phony stories and totally control the narrative about Canadian terrorists as it is about "terrorists" in countries that one wants to invade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Army Guy said: This topic has been beaten up and down a million times, with most agreeing to disagree....and yet some of the same old myths are still being passed as facts.. I think that if you approach this after reading the considerations that have been raised in, http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26612-why-all-the-worldwide-turmoil/ the first post, you might be inclined to see the things you have raised, the whole, really, single event since the attacks on NY City on 9-11 in a whole new light, or at least a different light. It points out that our myths are the myths. Edited February 28, 2017 by hot enough clearer explanation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 5 hours ago, hot enough said: $1 Trillion Motherlode of Lithium and Gold Discovered in Afghanistan http://www.mining.com/1-trillion-motherlode-of-lithium-and-gold-discovered-in-afghanistan/ The US supported and helped the Taliban to power because there were US companies seeking oil and gas pipeline rights across Afghanistan from the Caspian Basin to Pakistan. Why was this vicious group being wined and dined in the US, taken on tours like to Mt Rushmore? Just a question in regards to the minerals to the tune of 1 trillion dollars, this is what they think is there.....my question is this, how much of this trillion dollar has been dug out of the ground.....And if this was the reason the US got it self involved in a conflict in the first place why is everyone leaving Afghanistan, why leave a trillion dollars in the ground and then leave....nice conspiracy though..... Lets start with the first portion of your statement, you state that the US supported and helped the Taliban into power......Here is where i call bullshit, and you'll have to provide a source that clearly states that..... CIA and other US agencies supported a group called Mujahideen from 1979 to February 1989. Insurgent groups known as the mujahideen , The taliban don't step onto the stage until 1991....without any US support .......The next portion of your statement is you state they the US government was supporting the taliban because US companies were seeking OIL, and gas pipeline rights through Afghanistan..... Lets think about this for a moment OK i'm done once again i call bullshit see my last post on pipe lines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 4 hours ago, hot enough said: I think that if you approach this after reading the considerations that have been raised in, http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26612-why-all-the-worldwide-turmoil/ the first post, you might be inclined to see the things you have raised, the whole, really, single event since the attacks on NY City on 9-11 in a whole new light, or at least a different light. It points out that our myths are the myths. If this is where this conversation is heading I'm tapping out....now your taking a leap off the old conspiracy ladder, and i will not follow you down this rabbit hole..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Lets start with the first portion of your statement, you state that the US supported and helped the Taliban into power......Here is where i call bullshit, and you'll have to provide a source that clearly states that..... CIA and other US agencies supported a group called Mujahideen from 1979 to February 1989. Insurgent groups known as the mujahideen , The taliban don't step onto the stage until 1991....without any US support ...... Here is some interesting reading from many reliable news sources, all collected together that will answer your questions, and raise more. http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&before_9/11=pipelinePolitics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, Army Guy said: If this is where this conversation is heading I'm tapping out....now your taking a leap off the old conspiracy ladder, and i will not follow you down this rabbit hole..... Let's first deal with the other issues you raised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, hot enough said: Here is some interesting reading from many reliable news sources, all collected together that will answer your questions, and raise more. http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&before_9/11=pipelinePolitics Quote There is evidence the CIA may have helped supply the Taliban with weapons during the first months of their rise to power (see October 1994). The key word here is MAY have.....when you press the link it does NOT give any evidence of such an activity.....it does imply and provide evidence that Pakistan's ISI was funding and running the show, not the US CIA..... Quote Later in 1995, a Turkish newsweekly will claim to have learned from a classified report given to the Turkish government that the CIA, ISI, and Saudi Arabia were all collaborating to build up the Taliban so they could quickly unite Afghanistan. And yet there is NO classified report......or it would have been splashed all over this web page.... please try again....maybe provide a copy of the report, or maybe ask the question why would anyone give a copy to Turkey to start with.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 What you are doing is called cherry picking, AG. In order to save expensive bandwidth, I will let you know that there were reports there, at the link, from CBC, Boston Globe, Associated Press, Robert Dreyfuss, Daily Telegraph, Chicago Tribune, all describing US and CIA intimate contact with the Taliban over many long years. Why was the Taliban being wined and dined in the US, taken on tours of Mt Rushmore, ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 And another link, supplying many reputable news sources describing more intimate contacts between the Taliban and the USA/CIA, ... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 America's pipe dream George Monbiot https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/23/afghanistan.terrorism11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, hot enough said: What you are doing is called cherry picking, AG. In order to save expensive bandwidth, I will let you know that there were reports there, at the link, from CBC, Boston Globe, Associated Press, Robert Dreyfuss, Daily Telegraph, Chicago Tribune, all describing US and CIA intimate contact with the Taliban over many long years. Why was the Taliban being wined and dined in the US, taken on tours of Mt Rushmore, ... ? No, what i am doing is waiting for you to impress me with solid piece of evidence that makes your claims instead of news articles from i'm not sure where that do alot of talking but provides no evidence.........right now your running around squawking about a pipe line that never got built, in fact the powers to be built it just not through Afghanistan.....now there is also talks about a natural gas line it has been built , with once exception not through Afghanistan that was in 2016... So to even suggest that the US entered this conflict because of the pipe line is false and misleading.....it is so crazy to think that the US would spend multi bil dollars running a conflict when the return would be far less than that..... Who cares if the taliban is being wined and dinned bu the CIA, shit they talk to everyone .....But like i have said before it does not prove anything, as the vists have yet to be put into context.....you and your sources have yet proven the trips mean anything....papers, documents, conversations.....you got nothing except someone drawing a picture by following the dots and making guesses.... Most of your sources did not show up....maybe ,,,,maybe they have something in them.....If what you said is true ....then the evidence must be out there....but lets ask a question first......why would the US be playing multi sides, one with the northern Afghanistan , another with it's own forces, and now as you put it with the taliban ....sorry try again....prove it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: it is so crazy to think that the US would spend multi bil dollars running a conflict when the return would be far less than that..... They have done it in Korea, Indonesia, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, Iran, Iraq, ... Quote About a dozen Afghan leaders visit the US. They are militia commanders, mostly Taliban, and some with ties to al-Qaeda. A few are opponents of the Taliban. Their exact names and titles remain classified. For five weeks, they visit numerous locales in the US, including Mt. Rushmore. All their expenses are paid by the US government and the University of Nebraska. Thomas Gouttierre, an academic heading an Afghanistan program at the University of Nebraska, hosts their visit. Gouttierre is working as a consultant to Unocal at the time, and some Taliban visits to the US are paid for by Unocal, such as a visit two years earlier (see December 4, 1997). However, it is unknown if Unocal plays a role in this particular trip. Gouttierre had previously been paid by the CIA to create Afghan textbooks promoting violence and jihad (see 1984-1994). It is unknown if any of these visitors meet with US officials during their trip. [CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 10/21/2001] http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a120497texasvisit&scale=1#a120497texasvisit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 The Afghanistan war, specifically the mission to oust the Taliban and build a new democratic regime, was one of if not the most dumb and wasteful wars in Canada's history. My favorite myth is when people say the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: The Afghanistan war, specifically the mission to oust the Taliban and build a new democratic regime, was one of if not the most dumb and wasteful wars in Canada's history. My favorite myth is when people say the opposite. Hindu Kush should have been a clue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 Quote ozen Afghan leaders visit the US. They are militia commanders, mostly Taliban, and some with ties to al-Qaeda. A few are opponents of the Taliban. Their exact names and titles remain classified. For five weeks, they visit numerous locales in the US, including Mt. Rushmore. All their expenses are paid by the US government and the University of Nebraska. Thomas Gouttierre, an academic heading an Afghanistan program at the University of Nebraska, hosts their visit. Gouttierre is working as a consultant to Unocal at the time, and some Taliban visits to the US are paid for by Unocal, such as a visit two years earlier (see December 4, 1997). However, it is unknown if Unocal plays a role in this particular trip. Gouttierre had previously been paid by the CIA to create Afghan textbooks promoting violence and jihad (see 1984-1994). It is unknown if any of these visitors meet with US officials during their trip. [CHICAGO TRIBUNE, 10/21/2001] http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a120497texasvisit&scale=1#a120497texasvisit At the very most all you have here is that various US government agencies and US companies courted the taliban government to get a pipeline. That does not string together all the dots from courting for a pipeline to a massive leap, we are going to war, and we'll take a pipe line.... But what of the proof, the smoking gun....still nothing....no proof a lot of reading material from the same source , repeating it a million times does not make it true.... But what about reality.....US forces did invade, over threw the Taliban regime, help install a democratically elected government, stayed in country to assist the new government with security concerns, Spent bils, hundreds of bils on the conflict and in rebuilding the nation....Now here is a crazy point , why would anyone spend hundreds of bils to secure resources that cost half of that.... the reality is that there is still no pipeline built, never is going to be one, sure alot of people have spent funding for one, but the threat remains it is not secure enough to build much of anything .....And now the US is withdrawing or withdrawn most of it's combat power, still no pipe line, oh and still no mines to extract all those trillions in minerals either.....Now this may be a stretch but maybe , just maybe the US went in there to do exactly what it said it would, relieve the taliban from its control over Afghanistan, help stabilize it and move on....all with out building a pipeline, or digging up all those minerals...i mean actions speak louder than words.... Now before you say the US will come back later in the night for all that stuff, lets keep all this based in reality..... Unless you got another source that can be used as proof that the US, CIA , what ever agency went to war to gather a pipe line, and extract minerals then your theory is dead...and we can finally file this once again in conspiracy theories...area 51. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: The Afghanistan war, specifically the mission to oust the Taliban and build a new democratic regime, was one of if not the most dumb and wasteful wars in Canada's history. My favorite myth is when people say the opposite. We live in a nation were we have access to world class education, health care, access to the free market to purchase anything your imagination can think of. I can get a burger in under 5 minutes, or a 15 course meal. we can raise our kids in almost complete safety, we have plenty of job opportunities, our standard of living is second to none.....And with all that there is..... still some saying we can not share any of that, we can not use our resources to maybe change some of that.....because it is dumb and wasteful.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 5 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Hindu Kush should have been a clue. You mean a clue that the US was more than willing to do business with these people, was willing to wine and dine them in the US, was willing to take them on US tours, was willing to produce school books for them that were filled with propaganda for war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 2/27/2017 at 9:36 PM, Army Guy said: According to this source in 2016, No construction has begun in Afghanistan portion of the Natural gas pipe line http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/current-affairs/tapi-project-pact-inked-for-36200-mn-investmentstudies_6193081.html I have to ask if you can read or at least if you can comprehend what you read. The entire article is about the TAPI pipeline, the acronym T-A-P-I STANDS FOR, from your source, " Turkmenistan- Afghanistan-Pakistan-India, " "... is planned to become operational in 2018. India and Pakistan were originally to get 38 mmscmd each while the remaining 14 mmscmd was to be supplied to Afghanistan. Turkmenistan, which sits on the world's fourth-largest gas reserves, started building its section of the 1,814-kilometre last December, but the three other countries have yet to begin work on their parts of the pipeline. The pipeline will travel 773 km in Afghanistan and 827 km in Pakistan before ending at Fazilka (Punjab) in India.Read more at: http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/current-affairs/tapi-project-pact-inked-for-36200-mn-investmentstudies_6193081.html?utm_source=ref_article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Army Guy said: If this is where this conversation is heading I'm tapping out....now your taking a leap off the old conspiracy ladder, and i will not follow you down this rabbit hole..... This conversation is not headed where you are too frightened to go, but if you aren't willing to address issues that illustrate the lies, then you can't make claims that you are being fair. I'm very confident in the information I have to provide. Why is everyone so unwilling to discuss it? I am more than willing to look at anything anyone wants to provide in order to resolve the issues. And discuss it. Edited March 1, 2017 by hot enough spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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