Altai Posted February 10, 2017 Report Posted February 10, 2017 Countries always communicates and warns each other like wild animals. They attack each other to show others what they want. At the beginning its not easy to conceive their special language but I am trying to understand and I will teach you too. If you learn the countries' aims first, it will be much more easy to learn their language. Here we go with the first and recent communication of them. Yesterday new US intelligence chief visited Turkiye and the same day Russian planes shot Turkish positions in Syria "by mistake". So here the message was from Russians to Turks. Russians said that "Please dont get closer with Americans about Syrian issue. Grrrrrrrr". 1 Quote "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
kactus Posted February 10, 2017 Report Posted February 10, 2017 Suppose there is a mileage in this statement to make it believable these are pretty serious accusations being thrown at other countries unless one can substantiate the merits.... What is this assertion based on? 1- Personal experience 2- Conspiravy theory 3- Fact based (in which case there is no evidence) For example, I can argue with you that despite all this huffing and puffing gernerating hot air Türkie is a very small fish in the grand scheme of things from military perspective since having a military personnel does not mean much in today's combat for warfare...and I can reassure you this won't have anything to do with animal conversations atleast as far as Türkiye is concerned... Quote
OftenWrong Posted February 10, 2017 Report Posted February 10, 2017 3 hours ago, kactus said: Suppose there is a mileage in this statement to make it believable these are pretty serious accusations being thrown at other countries unless one can substantiate the merits.... What is this assertion based on? 1- Personal experience 2- Conspiravy theory 3- Fact based (in which case there is no evidence) For example, I can argue with you that despite all this huffing and puffing gernerating hot air Türkie is a very small fish in the grand scheme of things from military perspective since having a military personnel does not mean much in today's combat for warfare...and I can reassure you this won't have anything to do with animal conversations atleast as far as Türkiye is concerned... Sure, because we should trust the Russians that they are nice guys who never would do anything deceptive, especially in a theatre of war. Read some history, friend. 1 Quote
kactus Posted February 10, 2017 Report Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Sure, because we should trust the Russians that they are nice guys who never would do anything deceptive, especially in a theatre of war. Read some history, friend. It's called proxy wars and it's tried and tested for decades but thanks for confirming my point that Turkey is just a 'tool' used by super powers to drive their own agenda from Geo Politik's standpoint... That's what Russia does and so does the US with their puppies in that region for domination of vast resources... Edited February 10, 2017 by kactus Quote
Ash74 Posted February 10, 2017 Report Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, kactus said: It's called proxy wars and it's tried and tested for decades but thanks for confirming my point that Turkey is just a 'tool' used by super powers to drive their own agenda from Geo Politik's standpoint... That's what Russia does and so does the US with their puppies in that region for domination of vast resources... Nobody disagreed with that point. Turkey is very much a toy used by the big boys at the table. Well cept Altai Edited February 10, 2017 by Ash74 cause Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
GreenS Posted February 13, 2017 Report Posted February 13, 2017 On 10/02/2017 at 5:41 PM, kactus said: It's called proxy wars and it's tried and tested for decades but thanks for confirming my point that Turkey is just a 'tool' used by super powers to drive their own agenda from Geo Politik's standpoint... That's what Russia does and so does the US with their puppies in that region for domination of vast resources... If Turkey want to pose itself as a key player in the middle East, why they do not actively participate in the negotiations on the syrian Constitution? Quote
Altai Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Okay now more conversation examples of countries. I think France and US conversations or US and Germany conversations would be perfect examples. They are trying to share African countries. For example, Charlie Hebdo attack from US to France and France response with Baltimore events. They say "Grrrrr Africa is mineee" and other one say "Stfu its mineee". Edited February 13, 2017 by Altai Quote "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
kactus Posted February 13, 2017 Report Posted February 13, 2017 1 hour ago, GreenS said: If Turkey want to pose itself as a key player in the middle East, why they do not actively participate in the negotiations on the syrian Constitution? Turkey wants to pose itself as key player in the Middle East but the reality is they aren't... Russia and Iran and Turkey have been involved in negitiations regarding Syria. Difference is they have different agenda. Quote
kactus Posted February 13, 2017 Report Posted February 13, 2017 42 minutes ago, Altai said: Okay now more conversation examples of countries. I think France and US conversations or US and Germany conversations would be perfect examples. They are trying to share African countries. For example, Charlie Hebdo attack from US to France and France response with Baltimore events. They say "Grrrrr Africa is mineee" and other one say "Stfu its mineee". Syria is a perfect example. Geo-politically it has a perfect location from its shores to reach the rest of the world...Russians know this, Chinese know this, Iranians know this and so do the Americans. Only the superficial bunch try to detract from the facts on the ground. All you need is the US/ saudi backed ISIS fighting the russians and other rebels to create a mayhem. And that is what happens in Syria today...US has not been directly involved in Syria but only through proxy wahabis backed and financed by their stakeholders to form the ISIS....This is a prime example of proxy wars tested over and over in the Middles East and elsewhere. Quote
GreenS Posted February 13, 2017 Report Posted February 13, 2017 59 minutes ago, kactus said: Turkey wants to pose itself as key player in the Middle East but the reality is they aren't... Russia and Iran and Turkey have been involved in negitiations regarding Syria. Difference is they have different agenda. But Syria now needs peace. Without terrorists. Syria needs unity of nation. Syria needs widespread dialogue between all sides. Syria really needs new Constitution. Quote
kactus Posted February 13, 2017 Report Posted February 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, GreenS said: But Syria now needs peace. Without terrorists. Syria needs unity of nation. Syria needs widespread dialogue between all sides. Syria really needs new Constitution. Syria wants a lot of things but you are forgetting there are big stakeholders here. US, Russia and China. They all want a piece of cake without crossing each other's path. Unfortunately as is the case Syria is being used as a pawn for proxy wars and flexing muscles by the Americans versus Chinese/ Russians. Quote
eyeball Posted February 13, 2017 Report Posted February 13, 2017 On 2/10/2017 at 5:42 AM, OftenWrong said: Sure, because we should trust the Russians that they are nice guys who never would do anything deceptive, especially in a theatre of war. Read some history, friend. No, we shouldn't trust the Russians any more than we should trust the Americans. One is just as deceitful as the other and for the same reasons. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
OftenWrong Posted February 14, 2017 Report Posted February 14, 2017 5 hours ago, eyeball said: No, we shouldn't trust the Russians any more than we should trust the Americans. One is just as deceitful as the other and for the same reasons. Fine, if you wish. We all face tough choices. Stick with what you know. When you need help you have to accept that, and Canada does. Certainly, no one is invincible... Besides, US is our trading partner and long trusted military ally, while Russia is the remnants of the USSR. I mean, these people still admire Josef Stalin. Quote
eyeball Posted February 14, 2017 Report Posted February 14, 2017 There's no requirement to stick with anything. You can bend over for it if you choose but it must be pretty sad if you think that's the only choice you've got. Any allies that go so far out of their way to find and create enemies for themselves and us in no ally of mine. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
OftenWrong Posted February 14, 2017 Report Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) It would be great if the world was fair, but it's not. Never has been and never will. And you, can do nothing about this. You have to look at the reasons for why these things are as they are today. This game has gone on for a long, long time. It cannot be stopped. Why? Because whoever stops gets killed by the others. It's that simple. Edited February 14, 2017 by OftenWrong removed quote Quote
eyeball Posted February 14, 2017 Report Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: It would be great if the world was fair, but it's not. Never has been and never will. And you, can do nothing about this. Oh yes I can. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
GreenS Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 On 13/02/2017 at 7:48 PM, eyeball said: No, we shouldn't trust the Russians any more than we should trust the Americans. One is just as deceitful as the other and for the same reasons. On 14/02/2017 at 1:37 AM, OftenWrong said: Fine, if you wish. We all face tough choices. Stick with what you know. When you need help you have to accept that, and Canada does. Certainly, no one is invincible... Besides, US is our trading partner and long trusted military ally, while Russia is the remnants of the USSR. I mean, these people still admire Josef Stalin. On 13/02/2017 at 7:48 PM, eyeball said: No, we shouldn't trust the Russians any more than we should trust the Americans. One is just as deceitful as the other and for the same reasons. No matter who are bad or good guys...Americans, Russians, Canadian, Cambodian...strong states must help other states in the name of world stability and mutual security. Iraq-in it's fighting with Daesh, West Africa-with ebola, Syria-with adopting the new Constitution, Libya-with it's civil war, Afghanistan-with Taliban... Quote
GreenS Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 On 13/02/2017 at 2:27 PM, kactus said: Syria wants a lot of things but you are forgetting there are big stakeholders here. US, Russia and China. They all want a piece of cake without crossing each other's path. Unfortunately as is the case Syria is being used as a pawn for proxy wars and flexing muscles by the Americans versus Chinese/ Russians. Sure. But what about Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, United Arab Emirates? What are they doing in Syria? Each state in the middle East should be interested in solving the Syrian conflict. Assad must listen to the opposition, then destroy Daesh, than syrian people will vote and adopt a new Constitution..and finally PEACE Quote
Altai Posted February 16, 2017 Author Report Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, GreenS said: Sure. But what about Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, United Arab Emirates? What are they doing in Syria? Each state in the middle East should be interested in solving the Syrian conflict. Assad must listen to the opposition, then destroy Daesh, than syrian people will vote and adopt a new Constitution..and finally PEACE So while its such simple, why it does not happen ? Quote "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
kactus Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, GreenS said: Sure. But what about Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, United Arab Emirates? What are they doing in Syria? Each state in the middle East should be interested in solving the Syrian conflict. Assad must listen to the opposition, then destroy Daesh, than syrian people will vote and adopt a new Constitution..and finally PEACE It's rather a complex situation with different stakeholders having different agenda in Syria. Saudi Arabia is widely supported by the US financially and militarily. They have supported ISIS in fight against Assad in Syria and so did Turkey although they shift the blame on Kurd's intrusion into Turkey....Russians and Iranians are fighting the rebels and militias supported by Sunni Saudi Arabia to protect President Assad... These policies are multi dimensional and need to be looked at objectives. Bottom line a stable Syria with a proper constitution serves nothing for these stakeholders. You could argue that at least Russians, Iranians and Turks are clearer in their objectives evident in their meetings in Kazakhstan....It's regrettable but it seems the West mainly US arming the ISIS and Russians protecting Assad is only gonna create chaos and mayhem and prolong the war.... Remember project fear? 1 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 Syria is getting exactly what it deserves after decades of meddling and faction wars in Lebanon. Call it bad karma for Syria. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GreenS Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Altai said: So while its such simple, why it does not happen ? Because the possibility of direct talks between Damascus and the Syrian opposition are discussing now, Daesh is in Syria now (but much weaker then before), Syrian people are solving now what Constitution they need...of course it's complicated process. Quote
GreenS Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 58 minutes ago, kactus said: It's rather a complex situation with different stakeholders having different agenda in Syria. Saudi Arabia is widely supported by the US financially and militarily. They have supported ISIS in fight against Assad in Syria and so did Turkey although they shift the blame on Kurd's intrusion into Turkey....Russians and Iranians are fighting the rebels and militias supported by Sunni Saudi Arabia to protect President Assad... These policies are multi dimensional and need to be looked at objectives. Bottom line a stable Syria with a proper constitution serves nothing for these stakeholders. You could argue that at least Russians, Iranians and Turks are clearer in their objectives evident in their meetings in Kazakhstan....It's regrettable but it seems the West mainly US arming the ISIS and Russians protecting Assad is only gonna create chaos and mayhem and prolong the war.... Remember project fear? I understand american interests, russians, turks. I don't understand why all middle east states (16, may be 17) are unable to stop this war? Quote
GreenS Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 56 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Syria is getting exactly what it deserves after decades of meddling and faction wars in Lebanon. Call it bad karma for Syria. What about USA in Iraq? US administration cancelled the Iraqi constitution and wrote new document. Soon this constitution was adopted. (K.B. Yousef, Did the US Intervention in the Iraqi Constitution Help Make It Illegal?) Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Posted February 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, GreenS said: What about USA in Iraq? US administration cancelled the Iraqi constitution and wrote new document. Soon this constitution was adopted. (K.B. Yousef, Did the US Intervention in the Iraqi Constitution Help Make It Illegal?) Iraqis should have whatever constitution Iraqis desire, regardless of U.S. If Iraq wants U.S. aid, then it will not be free. Syria certainly didn't help Iraq one bit, providing safe harbour for Iraq's domestic enemies. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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