Students at SOAS try to remove irrelevant white philosophers from curriculum and old politically correct precious snow flakes lose their minds

[H10]

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The student union at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) insists that when studying philosophy “the majority of philosophers on our courses” should be from Africa and Asia.

The union said it is part of wider campaign to “decolonise” the university, as it seeks to “address the structural and epistemological legacy of colonialism”.

The student union at SOAS, a leading centre for the study of Asia, Africa and the Middle East, stated that “decolonising” the university and “confronting the white institution” is one of its priorities for the academic year.

It said that “white philosophers” should be studied only “if required”, adding that their work should be taught solely from a “critical standpoint”. “For example, acknowledging the colonial context in which so-called 'Enlightenment' philosophers wrote within,” it added.

Erica Hunter, head of SOAS's Religions and Philosophies department, said the union's viewpoint was “rather ridiculous”, adding: “I would firmly resist dropping philosophers or historians just because it was fashionable.”

Dr Deborah Johnston, Pro-Director (Learning and Teaching), said: "One of the great strengths of SOAS is that we have always looked at world issues from the perspective of the regions we study – Asia, Africa & Middle East.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/01/08/university-students-demand-philosophers-including-plato-kant/

 

The students are right to remove these irrelevant philosophers from the curriculum like Kant, Niche, Descartes, etc. because they had little to no influence over the societies where they lived and there are far more relevant philosophers who have influenced far more people in the world who ought to be studied.  Some old politically correct snow flakes want special treatment for some white philosophers who achieved nothing just because they are white.

This is not to say that white philosophers should never be studied, but they should have achievements or influenced people or thoughts that relate to the modern world like Marx, Engels, Smith, etc.  There are far more Asian, African and Arab philosophers than whites who had substantially influenced the world and far more people too but the old professors want political correctness in education and for some irrelevant white philosophers to be taught in a school that studies African, Arabia, and Asia just because those philosophers are whites as part of white colonial political correctness culture and in an effort to re-write history and make what were truly irrelevant philosophers like Niche or Malthus pretend to be relevant as part of white skin privilege.  Whereas real philosophers like Confuscious, Ahmed Baba, Ptah Hotep, and Budda  would go on to influence over a billion people respectively, the professors in political correctness want to shove white skin privilege of irrelevant white philosophers down the throat of everyone.  What is most bizarre is that Oxford Universityand University of Paris was started off of islamic literature and islamic and moorish libraries by white visiting professors to ISLAMIC MOORS universities but somehow they want to pretend that irrelevant philosophers are relevant just for being white.  When without the Asian and African philosophers, half the countries in Europe would not even have schools.

[TimG]

The legal and philosophical traditions that underpin western societies are based on these philosophers. People living in these societies should expect to study them. If they don't like that they can move back to whatever country provides them with a selection of philosophers that they like. It is clear that the SOAS is filled with a bunch of racists that wish to expunge material that fails to conform to their race based hierarchy.

Edited January 9, 2017 by TimG

[H10]

2 minutes ago, TimG said:

The legal and philosophical traditions that underpin western societies are based on these philosophers. People living in these societies should expect to study them. If they don't like that they can move back to whatever country provides them with a selection of philosophers that they like.

What traditions?  The philosophical traditions of whom, what legal traditions?  Western society foundation lay in Asia and Africa not Europe.

[DogOnPorch]

Not sure exactly what to say to a fellow who insists the sky is green.

[TimG]

1 hour ago, hernanday said:

What traditions?  The philosophical traditions of whom, what legal traditions?  Western society foundation lay in Asia and Africa not Europe.

WTF? Plato laid the foundations for western science and philosophy. Descartes and Kant laid the foundations for the secular state which exists in all Western countries. If you don't study these philosophers then you are ignorant of the history that created the countries you live in. As I said, people who don't think they should study these philosophers should try a different country.

Edited January 9, 2017 by TimG

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, TimG said:

WTF? Plato laid the foundations for western science and philosophy. Descartes and Kant laid the foundations for the secular state which exists in all Western countries. If you don't study these philosophers then you are ignorant of the history that created the countries you live in. As I said, if you live in a Western countries excluding these philosophers because of their race is simply racism.

Remember...unwashed Romans and Greeks apparently couldn't read or write. Therefore couldn't have had philosophy or philosophers.

Get with the Nu-History.

 

Footnote: Cicero...ugh.

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by DogOnPorch

[Guest]

I would have thought that, if you are going to study what someone said over 2000 years ago, their colour would be pretty irrelevant.

It's basically the students version of trolling.

[Moonlight Graham]

I think this school, because of the non-Western areas it focuses on, should include more philosophers from Asia and Africa.   But western philosophers shouldn't be banned either.  It should be up to the prof to assign what they want.

This has much more to do with culture than race (Western vs African etc).  To outright ban a philosopher because of the colour of their skin is absolutely racist.

[H10]

8 hours ago, TimG said:

WTF? Plato laid the foundations for western science and philosophy. Descartes and Kant laid the foundations for the secular state which exists in all Western countries. If you don't study these philosophers then you are ignorant of the history that created the countries you live in. As I said, people who don't think they should study these philosophers should try a different country.

The irony of this is that Plato studied in Africa for 13 years under the Horite priest Sechnuphis  but we will study Plato but not the Africans who educated him and laid the foundation for Western science and philosophy.  This is the type of political correctness that is being complained about.  Plato is being honored in this regard for his skin color, not his achievements.

I don't think Descartes or Kant laid such foundations.  You had secular states before these guys, and how secular were Western countries who had prayer in school anyways?  I disagree, there are far more relevant scholars for these countries than scholars who have not contributed anything.

[H10]

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I would have thought that, if you are going to study what someone said over 2000 years ago, their colour would be pretty irrelevant.

It's basically the students version of trolling.

That would have been my expectation, but instead we had a massive fail because the professors trolled the students by putting in just dozens of white irrelevant philosophers just for being white.

[H10]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I think this school, because of the non-Western areas it focuses on, should include more philosophers from Asia and Africa.   But western philosophers shouldn't be banned either.  It should be up to the prof to assign what they want.

This has much more to do with culture than race (Western vs African etc).  To outright ban a philosopher because of the colour of their skin is absolutely racist.

I don't think a philosopher should be banned.

I don't think it should be up to the prof because if the prof is biased he cane exclude the important philosophers from outside of Europe who shaped the world.

I believe it is racially drive rather than cultural because the foundations of western civilization is not european but african and asian.  Thus they will include some african philosophers only if they were white migrants into africa like augustine of hippo, while excluding the original african philosophers who taught plato for 13 years because they are not white.

I agree on your last point, which is why the school must stop its racist policy of banning non-white philosophers.

[TimG]

2 hours ago, hernanday said:

The irony of this is that Plato studied in Africa for 13 years under the Horite priest Sechnuphis  but we will study Plato but not the Africans who educated him and laid the foundation for Western science and philosophy.  This is the type of political correctness that is being complained about.  Plato is being honored in this regard for his skin color, not his achievements.

All philosophers build on the ideas that come before. Plato's ideas influenced Western society. Who he studied with is a fact to learn when studying him because he is the one who matters. You can also say Edison did not invent the light bulb nor did the Wright Brothers invent the airplane but they are the ones who refined the ideas of other people and turned them into useful tools. So it is Plato, Edison and the Wright Brothers who matter - not their teachers.

Edited January 10, 2017 by TimG

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26 minutes ago, TimG said:

All philosophers build on the ideas that come before. Plato's ideas influenced Western society. Who he studied with is a fact to learn when studying him because he is the one who matters. You can also say Edison did not invent the light bulb nor did the Wright Brothers invent the airplane but they are the ones who refined the ideas of other people and turned them into useful tools. So it is Plato, Edison and the Wright Brothers who matter - not their teachers.

Not all philosophers, naturally the first philosopher would have nothing before, but most, probably.

 

I agree Plato ideas influence Western society.  But his ideas were borrowed from Africans who taught him the ideas he translated into Greek.  So African ideas and philosophers are the foundation of Western society.  This doesn't in my view, mean Plato has no place, but these things need to be put into context. Your analogy is not even correct because African philosophy was already a useful tool within Africa, Asia and Europe by the time Plato, Thales, Socrates, Aristotle and so on started showing up to get educated in Africa.  Plato did not turn African philosophy into a useful tool, it was already being used by millions of people for thousands of years before Plato ever showed up.  He translated it into Greek, returned to Greece.  Romans copied the Greeks, renaissance and enlightenment europe looked to the classical Greeks and Romans for some inspiration.

 

However another great question emerges.  If the top European philosophers scholars, who also contribute much to western philosophy, all emerge from African philosophy, African schools, and African society, why aren't we studying the teachers and priest like Sechnuphis who taught them the philosophies that made them great and are the foundation of Western civilization, art, law, language, music, culture and development.

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, hernanday said:

The irony of this is that Plato studied in Africa for 13 years under the Horite priest Sechnuphis  but we will study Plato but not the Africans who educated him and laid the foundation for Western science and philosophy.  This is the type of political correctness that is being complained about.  Plato is being honored in this regard for his skin color, not his achievements.

I'm sure if Plato spent 13 years studying under an African then this would obviously be an influence on Plato, but by far Plato's biggest influence was his Greek teacher Socrates (the father of western philosophy).  Plato's most influential works, like The Apology of Socrates and The Republic, is Plato describing things Socrates said and did.

[H10]

6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm sure if Plato spent 13 years studying under an African then this would obviously be an influence on Plato, but by far Plato's biggest influence was his Greek teacher Socrates (the father of western philosophy).  Plato's most influential works, like The Apology of Socrates and The Republic, is Plato describing things Socrates said and did.

And Socrates biggest influence was his African teacher in the Temple of Waset, where he studied medicine and philosophy for 15 years.  The father of Western Philosophy thus is not Socrates but rather Ptah-Hotep, Imohotep and Amenhotep along with Secttnoophus the later of whom taught these Greeks.

St. Clement of Alexandria, himself a Greek would write: “If you were to write a book of 1000 pages, you could not put down names of all Greeks who went to Nile Valley in ancient Egypt to study ..."

Plato's Republic is based off of Kemetic Mystery System of Mi'yat (which is why he is accused often by scholars like Cantor of plagiarizing) although I think he was inspired by it, it is a hellenzied form of an African system.  It would be like saying Chinese invented fighter planes, because in China, Chinese people make fighter planes. Yes but those technologies come from the West largely.

[TimG]

6 hours ago, hernanday said:

Plato's Republic is based off of Kemetic Mystery System of Mi'yat (which is why he is accused often by scholars like Cantor of plagiarizing) although I think he was inspired by it, it is a hellenzied form of an African system.

As I said before. What matters is not who came up with an idea but who was able to communicate that idea in a way that influences others. Every scholar has teachers and every scholar's work is inspired by what came before. But a work that becomes influential is unique contributions that the scholar adds to what came before. Learning how knowledge ideas evolved over time and across cultures would be a useful exercise but simply excluding the most influential people because of their race is absurd.

[H10]

3 hours ago, TimG said:

As I said before. What matters is not who came up with an idea but who was able to communicate that idea in a way that influences others. Every scholar has teachers and every scholar's work is inspired by what came before. But a work that becomes influential is unique contributions that the scholar adds to what came before. Learning how knowledge ideas evolved over time and across cultures would be a useful exercise but simply excluding the most influential people because of their race is absurd.

The fact that the teachers influenced those Greek philosophers doesn't matter?  

The fact Kemetic philosophy is the foundation of Western civilization that touches billions of people doesn't matter?

Then the argument for Plato mattering seems even more absurd.

We already are excluding the most influential people based on race, we are excluding Confucius, Ahmed Baba, Ibn Rushd, Siddhartha Gautama, Amenhotep, Imohotep, Ptah-hotep and Secttnoophus, we are excluding them in a politically correct manner because they are not white.  This is why students at SOAS are complaining, they are tired of PC culture that excludes the MOST influential philosophers who are the foundation for Greek society and educated Greece's most erudite citizens and taught them and trained them in the philosophical system which would be used throughout all of Europe and the Americas, Australia and the rest of world.

You are essentially arguing it is best to ignore top philosophers based on race.

[TimG]

6 minutes ago, hernanday said:

The fact that the teachers influenced those Greek philosophers doesn't matter?  

It matters in the sense that it is important information to include in any discussion of those philosophers. However, study needs to start with the people that actually created the interpretations that underpin western society. Whether you want to admit it or not it was the Greeks that people have been reading and studying in Europe for 2000 years. Trying to pretend that the particular interpretations developed by these philosophers don't matter because they had teachers is absurd since everyone has teachers.

[drummindiver]

14 hours ago, hernanday said:

And Socrates biggest influence was his African teacher in the Temple of Waset, where he studied medicine and philosophy for 15 years.  The father of Western Philosophy thus is not Socrates but rather Ptah-Hotep, Imohotep and Amenhotep along with Secttnoophus the later of whom taught these Greeks.

 

Who learned from the cool daddy Bubba HoTep.

All comes back to the white dude.

 

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎09 at 6:51 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

I think this school, because of the non-Western areas it focuses on, should include more philosophers from Asia and Africa.   But western philosophers shouldn't be banned either.  It should be up to the prof to assign what they want.

This has much more to do with culture than race (Western vs African etc).  To outright ban a philosopher because of the colour of their skin is absolutely racist.

Moonlight I like what you and BC said. Let's clarify though a little bit on this. No one is saying if you are a student and you want to specialize in African or Asian studies you must study Plato or Decartes, etc. They are free to study what they want.

This was what was so absurd about their comments. They are saying to get rid of white philosophers in general.

Bottom line- curriculums must be colour blind. We must be able to study ANY philosopher of importance and obviously in Europe you would have to consider Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, and so on.

If you were concentrating on Asian studies and say India, obviously you wouldn't study Plato.

It would be impossible to not study Lao-Tzu, Confucious, Prince Siddharta (Bhddua) Taoism, Buddhism Hinduism, Zoroastreanism, Bahaiism, etc., when loking at Asian philosophies. No one is saying otherwise.

These stupid, narrow minded students want to ban certain philosophers based on racist principles. They believe the world is Eurocentric so they think the solution is to be racist against anyone white. What next book burnings?   Its childish, its immature, and its  ugly bigoted sputum that passes as political correctness on campuses these days. Its nothing but fascist bigotry..

These students are pin-heads. They aren't worthy of attention. They should remain in their racist ghettos. These are people who want the world to change to suit them. They are no different than neo Nazis.   They will get a rude awakening when their days of campus life are over and they have to get a job with their philosophy degrees and racist pretentions.

Students with closed minds are a sad thing. To be able to embrace as many cultures and philosophers as possible is a gift we have. For some to deliberately give that up and be proud about giving it up makes me realize humans are nothing but apes, pack animals who time and time again show the propensity to not be able to function outside their pack. That's all they are apes making grunting noises at other apes they think have different coloured fur. They are baboons. Baboons have huge wars led by Alpha Males whose coloured buttoxes and designs along with the colours on their buttox determine the pecking order. At least baboons however graduate.

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Rue

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, hernanday said:

And Socrates biggest influence was his African teacher in the Temple of Waset, where he studied medicine and philosophy for 15 years.  The father of Western Philosophy thus is not Socrates but rather Ptah-Hotep, Imohotep and Amenhotep along with Secttnoophus the later of whom taught these Greeks.

Who taught Socrates philosophy in Egypt?  Show me a link that Socrates biggest influence was an Egyptian teacher in the Temple of Waset?

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Plato's Republic is based off of Kemetic Mystery System of Mi'yat (which is why he is accused often by scholars like Cantor of plagiarizing) although I think he was inspired by it, it is a hellenzied form of an African system.  It would be like saying Chinese invented fighter planes, because in China, Chinese people make fighter planes. Yes but those technologies come from the West largely.

If Plato/Socrates had an idea that was inspired by the "Kemetic Mystery System", that is still only one small part of The Republic.  It's a large book with a massive amount of ideas in it.  You're trying to say that ie: because Picasso took lessons from teacher X, that teacher X should be credited for what Picasso did instead of Picasso himself.  Picasso was inspired by hundreds if not thousands of other artists, but his achievements are his own.  Nice try though.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

[H10]

9 hours ago, TimG said:

It matters in the sense that it is important information to include in any discussion of those philosophers. However, study needs to start with the people that actually created the interpretations that underpin western society. Whether you want to admit it or not it was the Greeks that people have been reading and studying in Europe for 2000 years. Trying to pretend that the particular interpretations developed by these philosophers don't matter because they had teachers is absurd since everyone has teachers.

The foundation interpretations come from African philosophy though. That is who developed the interpretations. I did not say their contributions don't matter, they do, but the credit they are being given is undue because they did not invent the foundation they are being given credit for, although they did play a substantial role in it.

[H10]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Who taught Socrates philosophy in Egypt?  Show me a link that Socrates biggest influence was an Egyptian teacher in the Temple of Waset?

If Plato/Socrates had an idea that was inspired by the "Kemetic Mystery System", that is still only one small part of The Republic.  It's a large book with a massive amount of ideas in it.  You're trying to say that ie: because Picasso took lessons from teacher X, that teacher X should be credited for what Picasso did instead of Picasso himself.  Picasso was inspired by hundreds if not thousands of other artists, but his achievements are his own.  Nice try though.

No it is not an idea that was inspired by, it is written based off of the system.  The Republic is a borrowed story.

No it would be like if X teacher did y painting, and picasso studied under that student for more than a decade and painted y2 painting that looked very similar to y painting the foundations for his painting were his teacher's painting and that system. In many regards the example isn't ideal because there are many ideas where Socrates just outright used without even changing kemetic mystery system sciences. It would be more akin to picasso just copying hundreds of paintings from his teacher.

For instance the  ‘Know Thyself,’ line was wrongly attributed to Socrates, and they claimed he invented this wise maxim when it was later revealed he borrowed this concept from Africa and it was all over every Egyptian temple.

 

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It's well-documented that classical Greek thinkers traveled to what we now call Egypt to expand their knowledge. When the Greek scholars Thales, Hippocrates, Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato and others traveled to Kemet, they studied at the temple-universities Waset and Ipet Isut.

http://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/greek-philosophers-african-tribes1.htm

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Rue said:

Baboons have huge wars led by Alpha Males whose coloured buttoxes and designs along with the colours on their buttox determine the pecking order. At least baboons however graduate.

Yes well, it sounds like someone in authority is caving into these graduates silliness. I wonder why?

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Students with closed minds are a sad thing.

Yep, we're looking at the next generation of conservatives I'd say.

Edited January 11, 2017 by eyeball

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Rue said:

Baboons have huge wars led by Alpha Males whose coloured buttoxes and designs along with the colours on their buttox determine the pecking order. At least baboons however graduate.

Yes well, it sounds like someone in authority is caving to their silliness. I wonder why?

Students with closed minds are a sad thing.

Yep, we're looking at the next generation of conservatives I'd say.