Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 13 hours ago, Hal 9000 said: It's interesting that both Obama and Kerry are sabotaging their own country with just 3 weeks left in power. Sabotaging their own country how exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, dialamah said: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/29/fbi-dhs-russian-hacking-report FBI and DHS release report detailing Russian hacking. Private sector cyber security firms says their reports are better and clearly demonstrate Russian hacking. One security expert wonders why the American response is so tepid. So both government and private sector confirm Russian hacking. But you say it didn't happen and even if it did, it didn't affect the election outcome as far as we know. Right? So I can sneak into your house, do whatever, leave my fingerprints, but its ok because you don't know what I did. Amiright? Sorry, where does it say in that link any of that? Did it affect the outcome? Maybe, but again, Hillary was naughty. All the news I have seen states there is no evidence and Obama needs to put up or shut up. I'm not saying they didn't do it btw, there is just no proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, drummindiver said: All the news I have seen states there is no evidence and Obama needs to put up or shut up. What news would that be? RT? Edited December 30, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, drummindiver said: Russia has not risen to Obama's bait by expelling diplomats. Clearly Obama is trying to make things difficult for the Trump transition. Are you a fan of Putin and his style of government, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Smallc said: I see, so no other sanctions actually count? How many times has Russia been caught interfering in the US election? Didn't look too hard, did you? http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/politics/russia-attack-us-diplomat/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fedition_us+(RSS%3A+CNNi+-+U.S.)&iid=ob_lockedrail_bottomlist Fair. I did look, had no hits. We were talking expelling diplomats, not sanctions. That's moving the goal posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Argus said: What news would that be? RT? What's RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, Argus said: So you're another of those conspiracy guys who doesn't believe the "MSM" and thinks all those American intelligence agencies are lying? I don't trust a f---ing thing...no. You do? The MSM lies...not to be trusted. Nor the FBI or CIA who are clearly in the pocket of SOMEBODY...not the President elect. Russia??...how convenient. Funny how the story changes... This is just MORE "Hillary Must Be Crowned" BS until I see something NON-Partisan...and you're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 minute ago, drummindiver said: What's RT Russian Television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Argus said: Are you a fan of Putin and his style of government, then? How do you get that? Just as in ME, they do this, we do that, till it's out of control and a huge effing mess. Just because you hate Trump doesn't make Obama right or Putin wrong. You know Obama is going to keep pushing while he still has the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, drummindiver said: How do you get that? Just as in ME, they do this, we do that, till it's out of control and a huge effing mess. Just because you hate Trump doesn't make Obama right or Putin wrong. You know Obama is going to keep pushing while he still has the stick. I just seen him throw Israel under the ol' bus...he's capable of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, DogOnPorch said: I just seen him throw Israel under the ol' bus...he's capable of anything. Because the US failed to veto a resolution calling the settlements illegal - which every western country has been saying for decades - he's thrown Israel under the bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, drummindiver said: How do you get that? Just as in ME, they do this, we do that, till it's out of control and a huge effing mess. Just because you hate Trump doesn't make Obama right or Putin wrong. You know Obama is going to keep pushing while he still has the stick. So in a discussion about who is right or wrong you put a man like Putin, who has almost every moral and ethical defect imaginable and is responsible for countless deaths on an equal footing with Obama? And I don't hate Trump. I have contempt for him. There is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I don't trust a f---ing thing...no. You do? The MSM lies...not to be trusted. Nor the FBI or CIA who are clearly in the pocket of SOMEBODY...not the President elect. Russia??...how convenient. Funny how the story changes... This is just MORE "Hillary Must Be Crowned" BS until I see something NON-Partisan...and you're not. So if you don't trust government agencies and don't trust reputable news reporting services how then can you make an intelligent or coherent decision or take any kind of legitimate position on world or national events? You have basically admitted you have no reputable news sources for anything that happens anywhere. Edited December 30, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, Argus said: Because the US failed to veto a resolution calling the settlements illegal - which every western country has been saying for decades - he's thrown Israel under the bus? Yes...Israel was the defender and victor in a war of extermination and acquired land no differently than all the other countries on this planet. Like I've said before: I'll think it's REALLY a problem the day the UN brings back South Viet-Nam. Until that day, this is just Arabs bitching because they LOST the war they STARTED. 1 minute ago, Argus said: So if you don't trust government agencies and don't trust reputable news reporting services how then can you make an intelligent or coherent decision or take any kind of legitimate position on world or national events? You have basically admitted you have no reputable news sources for anything that happens anywhere. What's a 'reputable news source'?? Yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Argus said: So in a discussion about who is right or wrong you put a man like Putin, who has almost every moral and ethical defect imaginable and is responsible for countless deaths on an equal footing with Obama? And I don't hate Trump. I have contempt for him. There is a difference. I certainly did not state that. I stated I'm glad Putin did not rise to the bait. It would have escalated to who knows what, and that could still happen. You are playing semantics. You have written many diatribes on Trump. I think hate is an accurate adjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, DogOnPorch said: What's a 'reputable news source'?? Yours? A reputable news source is one which intelligent people around the world respect for its efforts at telling the truth, uncovering the truth, and resisting manipulation. That's not to say they're always right or always get the full story because they don't, but they're the only way you can get any grasp on what is going on in the world. And governments seldom openly lie about something unless there is no way anyone can ever know they are lying, even years later. That doesn't mean they don't say things sometimes they believe are true but aren't, or that they exaggerate the evidence they have because they're 'true believers' and want to convince us as well. But flat out lies are counterproductive because most of the time someone will find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, Argus said: A reputable news source is one which intelligent people around the world respect for its efforts at telling the truth, uncovering the truth, and resisting manipulation. That's not to say they're always right or always get the full story because they don't, but they're the only way you can get any grasp on what is going on in the world. And governments seldom openly lie about something unless there is no way anyone can ever know they are lying, even years later. That doesn't mean they don't say things sometimes they believe are true but aren't, or that they exaggerate the evidence they have because they're 'true believers' and want to convince us as well. But flat out lies are counterproductive because most of the time someone will find out. Right...reputable is the one you agree with. How non-partisan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, drummindiver said: I certainly did not state that. I stated I'm glad Putin did not rise to the bait. It would have escalated to who knows what, and that could still happen. You are playing semantics. You have written many diatribes on Trump. I think hate is an accurate adjective. The only reason Putin didn't go in for a tit for tat expulsion is because Trump is coming in a few weeks. It wasn't restraint. Putin has never exhibited restraint. It was cold hearted calculation. As for Trump, hate is an emotion. My assessment of Trump is without much emotion since he hasn't done anything to harm me. My assessment is based on watching him listening to him, and reviewing what he has done with his life to date. It is a judgement on him as a person with many failings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 18 minutes ago, drummindiver said: Fair. I did look, had no hits. We were talking expelling diplomats, not sanctions. That's moving the goal posts. I was talking sanctions - never expelling diplomats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, Argus said: Because the US failed to veto a resolution calling the settlements illegal - which every western country has been saying for decades - he's thrown Israel under the bus? Absolutely. They are allies. Stand with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Argus said: The only reason Putin didn't go in for a tit for tat expulsion is because Trump is coming in a few weeks. It wasn't restraint. Putin has never exhibited restraint. It was cold hearted calculation. As for Trump, hate is an emotion. My assessment of Trump is without much emotion since he hasn't done anything to harm me. My assessment is based on watching him listening to him, and reviewing what he has done with his life to date. It is a judgement on him as a person with many failings. Believe me...I'm unbiased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Right...reputable is the one you agree with. How non-partisan. I think most people agree on what news organizations are reputable, regardless of political affiliation. For example, I don't like or trust the opinions of Toronto Star, but I don't believe the Star would ever deliberately print falsehoods. They might print half a story, of course, which is what crusading organizations do. Or print repeated stories on a given subject (like climate change) because they want to convince their readers of its importance. But if I have many news sources I will wind up getting the other half elsewhere. And I have many news sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, drummindiver said: Sorry, where does it say in that link any of that? Did it affect the outcome? Maybe, but again, Hillary was naughty. All the news I have seen states there is no evidence and Obama needs to put up or shut up. I'm not saying they didn't do it btw, there is just no proof. I see those newstories too; they're a lot more prevalent than the newstories that talk about what the investigations have actually found. Why do you suppose thats so? Hillary is no longer relevant so trying to use her to excuse Russian hacking makes no senze. Again I am left wondering why (some) Americans are so willing to overlook even the possibility that a foreign power was hacking into government systems. Can you explain that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 minute ago, drummindiver said: Absolutely. They are allies. Stand with them. What if you believe their actions wrt the settlements is not only wrongheaded in terms of law or ethics, but stupid in terms of their own future well being? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, Argus said: I think most people agree on what news organizations are reputable, regardless of political affiliation. For example, I don't like or trust the opinions of Toronto Star, but I don't believe the Star would ever deliberately print falsehoods. They might print half a story, of course, which is what crusading organizations do. Or print repeated stories on a given subject (like climate change) because they want to convince their readers of its importance. But if I have many news sources I will wind up getting the other half elsewhere. And I have many news sources. Like what is a Jumbo Shrimp? You're as biased as the next. Your "reputable news sources" aren't special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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