Black Rights Activist on Canadian $10 bill

[Argus]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

As usual, you seem incapable of sticking to the subject without trying to throw in personal issues. I never said anything to promote this lady in particular, I pointed that we need to expand from recognizing just a small handful of historical figures. I never promoted any social justice cause here, yet you feel the need to label me as a social justice warrior. This country was built on the backs of many, from the farmers that cleared land to the imported labor that dug railway tunnels, yet all we ever hear about is the old drunkard John A. who took care of his patronage buddies.

Hypocritical, much? You're the who one who introduced personal issues into this discussion and now you're whining that I reply in kind? This has nothing to do with the recognition of more ordinary Canadians. There are tons of non politicians who made enormous contributions. How about Banting and Best, as two examples. Oh wait, they're not Black. Won't do!

[Argus]

35 minutes ago, Omni said:

I guess you miss/ignore the point that it could be understandable to not like the people who mistreated you simply because of your skin color. It does seem though that there are those that can achieve that all by themselves.

So you're saying anyone who was mistreated by a Black person is justified in hating Black people?

[Omni]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

So you're saying anyone who was mistreated by a Black person is justified in hating Black people?

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all. Do you see the word "hate" anywhere in my post? 

[?Impact]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Hypocritical, much? You're the who one who introduced personal issues into this discussion and now you're whining that I reply in kind? This has nothing to do with the recognition of more ordinary Canadians. There are tons of non politicians who made enormous contributions. How about Banting and Best, as two examples. Oh wait, they're not Black. Won't do!

Yes, Banting and Best would be good to recognize. In fact we already do, look at the back of the polymer $100 bill, between the two serial numbers. I didn't whine when it came, unlike the children that are whining now because of the colour of skin of the person being honoured this time.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Yes, Banting and Best would be good to recognize. In fact we already do, look at the back of the polymer $100 bill, between the two serial numbers. I didn't whine when it came, unlike the children that are whining now because of the colour of skin of the person being honoured this time.

People aren't whining because of the colour of her skin but because the colour of her skin was the only reason that got her chosen - by the politically correct, wallowing in white guilt.

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

People aren't whining because of the colour of her skin but because the colour of her skin was the only reason that got her chosen - by the politically correct, wallowing in white guilt.

What is the difference between her and the American 'hero' who wouldn't give up her seat on the bus? Rosa Parks is highly celebrated for her actions by all but the KKK. What is your problem with Viola Desmond? How is this infinitesimally small recognition of her actions going to ruin your life? 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

What is the difference between her and the American 'hero' who wouldn't give up her seat on the bus? Rosa Parks is highly celebrated for her actions by all but the KKK. What is your problem with Viola Desmond? How is this infinitesimally small recognition of her actions going to ruin your life? 

If you're going to argue the point, why would you make stuff up?  It's certainly not an infinitesimally small recognition of her actions, nor did anyone say it was going to ruin their lives.  Unless I missed that last bit.  I don't read every post.

[Omni]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

People aren't whining because of the colour of her skin but because the colour of her skin was the only reason that got her chosen - by the politically correct, wallowing in white guilt.

It was the color of her skin that got her thrown out of the theater. If we were wallowing in guilt we would probably continue to ignore her rather than putting her on the bill.

[?Impact]

18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's certainly not an infinitesimally small recognition of her actions, nor did anyone say it was going to ruin their lives.

We put symbols on our money, and change them frequently. Look the the friggen quarter, it seems to change daily. Suddenly a black lady gets recognized and its the end of the friggen world. I have never heard a complaint before about someone being recognized on our money that was inappropriate until it was someone with a little colour in their skin. Step back people and look yourselves in the mirror.

The last big controversy about the $10 bill was a few year ago when they put out the description the the website about the wrong mountain peak they used. Someone with a sharp eye who had hiked the mountain noticed it was wrong, and they changed the description. Big friggen deal, we didn't have a national emergency. Why are people upset the Viola is being recognized? If she were white, those same people would pay zero attention. They might read an article in the paper and say, interesting never heard about her before - and then move on. That is what 35 million Canadians are doing with Viola, but we seem to have a few that think this recognition will somehow bring the world to a crashing halt.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

We put symbols on our money, and change them frequently. Look the the friggen quarter, it seems to change daily. Suddenly a black lady gets recognized and its the end of the friggen world. I have never heard a complaint before about someone being recognized on our money that was inappropriate until it was someone with a little colour in their skin. Step back people and look yourselves in the mirror.

The last big controversy about the $10 bill was a few year ago when they put out the description the the website about the wrong mountain peak they used. Someone with a sharp eye who had hiked the mountain noticed it was wrong, and they changed the description. Big friggen deal, we didn't have a national emergency. Why are people upset the Viola is being recognized? If she were white, those same people would pay zero attention. They might read an article in the paper and say, interesting never heard about her before - and then move on. That is what 35 million Canadians are doing with Viola, but we seem to have a few that think this recognition will somehow bring the world to a crashing halt.

The Quarter is different.  It's a whore.

You're just plain wrong about the reasons why people are questioning this decision.  Viola was black, so any discussion must be racist? 

It wasn't her colour that made me surprised about the decision, it was her obscurity.

[?Impact]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It wasn't her colour that made me surprised about the decision, it was her obscurity.

Read through the list of 400+ names that were looked at, or even the short list. I would be surprised if you recognized more than a few of them. This gets back to the old drunkard John A.. It seems that when anyone wants to talk about historical figures we jump to the few we know. This is an opportunity for people to read about someone else. We don't need Chairman Mao's portrait everywhere. Perhaps that is part of the criteria for the selection committee, a chance to give someone who is relatively obscure a chance to be recognized. 

Like I said, 35 million Canadians might read an article in the paper and say interesting, and then move on. More than likely it will be only a small fraction that will even read the article to begin with. This is an infinitesimally small recognition, no need to get your shorts all twisted up. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Read through the list of 400+ names that were looked at, or even the short list. I would be surprised if you recognized more than a few of them. This gets back to the old drunkard John A.. It seems that when anyone wants to talk about historical figures we jump to the few we know. This is an opportunity for people to read about someone else. We don't need Chairman Mao's portrait everywhere. Perhaps that is part of the criteria for the selection committee, a chance to give someone who is relatively obscure a chance to be recognized. 

Like I said, 35 million Canadians might read an article in the paper and say interesting, and then move on. More than likely it will be only a small fraction that will even read the article to begin with. This is an infinitesimally small recognition, no need to get your shorts all twisted up. 

It's a huge recognition, and my shorts are not twisted.  Why do you need to exaggerate the reactions you are arguing against?  Just argue against them.  The idea was to put a female on the money, for the sake of it.  Not a gesture I'm completely comfortable with, but certainly also not short twisting.  That said, that Ms Desmond is the most deserving female in Canada's history is a liitle surprising. 

I'm not advocating burning any crosses over it, really I'm not.

[?Impact]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That said, that Ms Desmond is the most deserving female in Canada's history is a liitle surprising. 

That is the crux of the matter. Nobody is saying that Viola is the most deserving female in Canada's history, not by a friggen billion light years. Someone made the very valid observation that the only female to appear on Canadian 'paper' currency has been the Queen, so perhaps it is time we actually try to change that. There is a story that goes along with the 400+ names that were looked at, and they are all deserving. A decision needs to be made to pick one, and so a decision was made. Now it the opportunity for Canadians to read a little an learn about this little known Canadian, and yes most will not even take that opportunity. Let me make it simple, the following is from the Bank of Canada website. It is worth reading, and also might help you in understanding why she has been so obscure for far too long.

Quote

Viola Desmond (1914–1965)

Viola Desmond remains an icon of the human rights and freedoms movement in Canada. A successful Nova Scotia businesswoman, she defiantly refused to leave a whites-only area of a movie theatre in 1946 and was subsequently jailed, convicted and fined. Her court case was the first known legal challenge against racial segregation brought forth by a Black woman in Canada.

Thriving Entrepreneur

As a middle-class Black woman in the 1930s and 1940s, Viola Desmond was always a trailblazer. From her early days as a school teacher, her ambition was to set up her own hairdressing business. The first hurdle was training. Beauty schools in Halifax restricted Black women from admission, so she travelled to Montreal, New York and New Jersey to pursue various courses, eventually receiving a diploma from the renowned Apex College of Beauty Culture and Hairdressing in Atlantic City.

In 1937, Desmond set up Vi’s Studio of Beauty Culture in Halifax, which became a gathering place for women in the community. But her vision didn’t end there. Within a few years, she established the Desmond School of Beauty Culture, which drew students from across Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Quebec. Another venture—manufacturing and marketing Vi’s Beauty Products—was also generating orders from across Nova Scotia. She had made positive inroads as both an entrepreneur and a role model in her community and was an inspiration to her clients and students alike.

Defender of Social Justice

On 8 November 1946, she was travelling to Sydney on business when her car broke down in New Glasgow. While waiting for repairs, she decided to go to a movie at the Roseland Theatre.

Unaware of the theatre’s policy of restricting Black people to the upper balcony, Desmond handed the cashier her money and asked for “one down please.” The cashier handed her a balcony ticket and, when she entered the theatre, the usher told her that the ticket was for the balcony and that she would need to go upstairs. Thinking there had been a mistake, Desmond returned to the cashier and asked to exchange her ticket. The cashier refused, stating “I’m not permitted to sell downstairs tickets to you people.” As soon as she realized that she was being denied seating on the basis of race, Desmond courageously walked back inside and took a seat downstairs. The theatre manager then confronted her, and when she didn’t move, he called the police. Desmond was forcibly ejected, arrested, charged and then convicted for failure to pay the extra penny in theatre tax required for the downstairs seat.

Desmond was unsuccessful in her subsequent efforts to quash her criminal conviction, but her story resulted in a milestone human rights case in Canada. Since the case was framed as tax evasion, the real issue of racism had been shrouded by procedural technicalities. If she had not taken further action, the surviving trial records would have left no clue to the true significance of the case—that she had been denied the downstairs ticket on the basis of her race.

The legal challenge sparked by Desmond touched a nerve within the Black community and added to the growing consciousness regarding racial discrimination in Nova Scotia. Her case was an inspiration for change and part of a wider set of efforts toward racial equality across the country.

Desmond’s perseverance, and the attention generated by her case, paved the way for a broader movement to recognize the importance of human rights in Canada.

Desmond received a posthumous free pardon from the Nova Scotia government on 15 April 2010. It was granted by then-Lieutenant Governor of Nova Scotia Mayann Francis, who was the first Black Nova Scotian and only the second Black person in Canada to hold this office. The pardon was accompanied by a public declaration and apology from then-Premier Darrell Dexter, who indicated that charges should never have been laid and that her conviction was a miscarriage of justice.

Though the events at the Roseland Theatre are now 70 years behind us, Desmond’s struggle for social justice and her singular act of courage continue to resonate with Canadians.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ?Impact said:

That is the crux of the matter. Nobody is saying that Viola is the most deserving female in Canada's history, not by a friggen billion light years. Someone made the very valid observation that the only female to appear on Canadian 'paper' currency has been the Queen, so perhaps it is time we actually try to change that. There is a story that goes along with the 400+ names that were looked at, and they are all deserving. A decision needs to be made to pick one, and so a decision was made. Now it the opportunity for Canadians to read a little an learn about this little known Canadian, and yes most will not even take that opportunity. Let me make it simple, the following is from the Bank of Canada website. It is worth reading, and also might help you in understanding why she has been so obscure for far too long.

 

Exactly.  Not really Earth shattering.  Let's face it, she just got a bit pissed off one day.  That's about it. 

Your problem is one that crops up a lot on here.  Any criticism of anyone who is not white (and in this case, it's not even criticism of Ms Desmond, just discussion about the decision) is seen as racist as a default position.  There are no light years involved.  Just a perplexing decision that is open to discussion. 

I think the fact that it hasn't been roundly approved by all based solely on the fact that this was a black female offends you.

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Exactly.  Not really Earth shattering.  Let's face it, she just got a bit pissed off one day.  That's about it. 

Your problem is one that crops up a lot on here.  Any criticism of anyone who is not white (and in this case, it's not even criticism of Ms Desmond, just discussion about the decision) is seen as racist as a default position.  There are no light years involved.  Just a perplexing decision that is open to discussion. 

I think the fact that it hasn't been roundly approved by all based solely on the fact that this was a black female offends you.

You are making the claim it was based solely on the fact that this was a black female. Look in the mirror Archie Bunker, you are the one offended by the selection not I. You couldn't even read the bloody profile I copied, and wrote her off as someone who got pissed off one day. She is one among many Canadians that deserve to be recognized, and today is her day. Next time the $10 bill changes it will be someone else. I guess you go through your baseball card colection and burn Jackie Robinson as well? Get over yourself.

Edited December 14, 2016 by ?Impact

[Argus]

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

What is the difference between her and the American 'hero' who wouldn't give up her seat on the bus? Rosa Parks is highly celebrated for her actions by all but the KKK. What is your problem with Viola Desmond? How is this infinitesimally small recognition of her actions going to ruin your life? 

Rosa Parks spent her life as a civil rights leader. This woman, aside from that one lawsuit, retreated into anonymity. And frankly, even Parks didn't deserve the honor. I'm not putting her down. I simply feel there were many men who had far more influence through US history. Either of the Roosevelts, for example.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Argus

[Benz]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

 Let's face it, she just got a bit pissed off one day.  That's about it.

You make it sounds like it was as much important as if she could not have the taste of ice cream she asked for because it was discontinued.

The racial discrimination, whether they were official or Unofficial, were causing alot of prejudices. One has to be courageous to fight against such system, because alot of oppressions were done back then.

I understand that for you, this notable event is not important enough to put her face on a 10$, not even for one edition. It is not racist from you but, I would rather say insensitive to an issue that you cannot be directly concern. Objectively, I would moreless agree that there have been more important people than her in our history that could have at least their face on an Bank Note edition, but my face is very white and I am not even indirectly concerned by those fights that are from another time on issues that would have no incidence on me even if I was living back then. The discrimination at that time was something very outrageous and nowadays, the justice forbids it. It is definitely a good idea to place at least one black face on one bank note edition, preferably someone that has something to do with the defense of human rights.

So if it is not her. Who would you choose? This is what you should question instead of just pretending that it was a non important issue.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Benz

[Argus]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Why are people upset the Viola is being recognized? If she were white, those same people would pay zero attention. They might read an article in the paper and say, interesting never heard about her before - and then move on.

No they wouldn't. They'd be like "WTH? Who is this!? Why is she being put on the dollar?" Being put on a bill is a great honor and ought to go to the most deserving PERSON, without regard to race or gender.  Also, people are reacting to the fact she was chosen primarily to let liberals smugly bask in how noble and inclusive they are.

In addition, replacing the man most responsible for the founding of Canada with a nonentity like this is an insult to him and to anyone and everyone who values traditions and the history of Canada.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Read through the list of 400+ names that were looked at, or even the short list. I would be surprised if you recognized more than a few of them. This gets back to the old drunkard John A.. It seems that when anyone wants to talk about historical figures we jump to the few we know.

No, it jumps those who towered over everyone else in how they influenced the development of this nation.

[Argus]

40 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

You are making the claim it was based solely on the fact that this was a black female. Look in the mirror Archie Bunker, you are the one offended by the selection not I. You couldn't even read the bloody profile I copied, and wrote her off as someone who got pissed off one day. She is one among many Canadians that deserve to be recognized,

This it the crux of it. Most Canadians believe merit ought to be the overwhelming reason for any honor or promotion and are offended when people receive them instead of others who clearly had more merit.  You think she 'deserved' this honor because, well, she agreed with your social views. So it's really that you don't understand what 'deserves' means. To most Canadians, it means merit based on ability and accomplishments. The Left doesn't believe in merit, but in legislated inclusiveness without regard to merit. Thus we see, for example, Trudeau's cabinet, put together without much regard to merit and based largely on insuring people with the right genitalia, skin colour and religions are included. I think you honestly can't understand why normal people would be offended by that sort of thing so you flounder around and seize on race as the reason.

[?Impact]

12 minutes ago, Argus said:

 You think she 'deserved' this honor because, well, she agreed with your social views.

What stinky hole did you pull that one out of. There was a nomination process and and an evaluation committee that came up with this result. You are now creating your own criteria based on her skin color.

I didn't pick her, I would have been equally happy if someone else was selected and I gained the opportunity to learn about another Canadian. This however was the result and I am equally happy because I got to learn about Viola Desmond. I am not the one ranking people here, and putting the black people at the back of the bus (or in the balcony).

[WestCoastRunner]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

No they wouldn't. They'd be like "WTH? Who is this!? Why is she being put on the dollar?" Being put on a bill is a great honor and ought to go to the most deserving PERSON, without regard to race or gender.  Also, people are reacting to the fact she was chosen primarily to let liberals smugly bask in how noble and inclusive they are.

In addition, replacing the man most responsible for the founding of Canada with a nonentity like this is an insult to him and to anyone and everyone who values traditions and the history of Canada.

Once someone has asked themselves your questions mentioned above, I would hope they go and do some research and find out why she was selected.

This woman grew up in a black segregated part of NS.  She had to obtain her education abroad because she was black and when she returned, she built a successful business, Beauty line products for black women and a school for black women.

When asked to move in the theatre because of her skin colour, she resisted.  She probably got sick and tired of being told where to live, where to go to school and where to watch theatre and stood up for herself.  This incident caused outrage in NS against the segregation and resulted in changes in the legislature, and a holiday was even named after.  She told her sister once that all she wanted was to get an education like any other white person and teach other black women to run a business.

As far as it being an insult to anyone who values traditions and the history of Canada, let's remember some of Canada's nasty past history, let's hope those actions weren't valued: The internment of Japanese, Ukranian and Italian Canadians during World War I and II, turning away boats of Jewish and Punjabi refugees and our history of slavery.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

You are making the claim it was based solely on the fact that this was a black female. Look in the mirror Archie Bunker, you are the one offended by the selection not I. You couldn't even read the bloody profile I copied, and wrote her off as someone who got pissed off one day. She is one among many Canadians that deserve to be recognized, and today is her day. Next time the $10 bill changes it will be someone else. I guess you go through your baseball card colection and burn Jackie Robinson as well? Get over yourself.

Oh for Pete's sake, I'm to get over myself?  Don't make me laugh.  You're the one who can't comprehend a difference of opinion without jamming your outrage chip into overdrive.

 

Edit>  I think you misintepreted my last sentence there.  I wondered what in Heaven's name you were on about so I went and took a look.  I did not make the claim it was based solely on the fact that this was a black female.  I made the claim that the fact that it hasn't been roundly approved by all based solely on the fact that this was a black female offends you. Actually, I said I thought that.  Still do.

Completely different from what you posted.

Edited December 14, 2016 by bcsapper

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Benz said:

You make it sounds like it was as much important as if she could not have the taste of ice cream she asked for because it was discontinued.

The racial discrimination, whether they were official or Unofficial, were causing alot of prejudices. One has to be courageous to fight against such system, because alot of oppressions were done back then.

I understand that for you, this notable event is not important enough to put her face on a 10$, not even for one edition. It is not racist from you but, I would rather say insensitive to an issue that you cannot be directly concern. Objectively, I would moreless agree that there have been more important people than her in our history that could have at least their face on an Bank Note edition, but my face is very white and I am not even indirectly concerned by those fights that are from another time on issues that would have no incidence on me even if I was living back then. The discrimination at that time was something very outrageous and nowadays, the justice forbids it. It is definitely a good idea to place at least one black face on one bank note edition, preferably someone that has something to do with the defense of human rights.

So if it is not her. Who would you choose? This is what you should question instead of just pretending that it was a non important issue.

I would not choose anyone.  I did not think about it, at all.  I heard that there was a move to find a female for the 10 dollar bill, and I was surprised that she was the female chosen.  That's it.  That's all.  I am not ironing my hood as I type this.

 

[WestCoastRunner]

On 12/12/2016 at 11:54 AM, taxme said:

There is plenty of room to engrave Canada's Rosa Parks" on the bill. If not the Bank of Canada will find a spot. Probably right under her name. 

She is not Canada's Rosa Park.  Viola Desmond is America's 'Rosa Park'.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/viola-desmond-rosa-parks-debate-1.3452989

Quote

"Why is it that we refer to Viola as Canada's Rosa Parks, given the fact that she had stood up for this social injustice nine years before Rosa Parks had stood up on the bus?"

The fact that many more Canadians know about Parks than Desmond shows how overlooked African Canadians have been in the history books, he says. "We've got a number of people in this country who have been trailblazers and we need to look at that history in its entirety."

Like many African Nova Scotians, Ince said his parents knew about Canadian black pioneers like Desmond, but didn't see them in the textbooks.

"How many Canadians don't know that slavery actually existed here? By calling her 'Canada's Rosa Parks,' it sort of suggests that what she did was of lesser value, because obviously we're the good ones. So whatever was going on here wasn't as bad — the Jim Crow segregation that was happening in Canada wasn't as bad as the Jim Crow segregation that was happening in the United States."