The_Squid Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 On 10/9/2016 at 3:25 PM, Altai said: Of course we will work but we wont work to make money, we will work just because we love our jobs. How would you convince someone to love digging ditches? If I choose a job I love, then I guess I will be a racecar driver. How do you convince someone to take a really stressful, demanding job if it would be much, much easier for them to work as a supermodel photographer and get the exact same rewards for doing so? Quote
Altai Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, The_Squid said: How would you convince someone to love digging ditches? If I choose a job I love, then I guess I will be a racecar driver. How do you convince someone to take a really stressful, demanding job if it would be much, much easier for them to work as a supermodel photographer and get the exact same rewards for doing so? This is the unjust life style which we have been used to live. In today's World someones digs ditches not because of they make much more money than any other jobs but because of they are not given any other chance. Ofcourse many people would not like to dig ditches all day long. Then we can share difficult/stressful jobs, I will dig my part and you will dig your part, another person will dig his/her part. If we can find (probably we can many) people who would like to work as digger, we can leave this job entirely to them and we would ease their jobs. For example they would work part time. Dont forget that everyone will live a luxury life in my system, be a grave digger or be an astronaut, everyone will live the same life standards. If you want to be a race car driver, you will be a race car driver after you provide the necessary qualifications for such a job. We want happy and efficient citizens. Quote "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
The_Squid Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 40 minutes ago, Altai said: This is the unjust life style which we have been used to live. In today's World someones digs ditches not because of they make much more money than any other jobs but because of they are not given any other chance. Ofcourse many people would not like to dig ditches all day long. Then we can share difficult/stressful jobs, I will dig my part and you will dig your part, another person will dig his/her part. If we can find (probably we can many) people who would like to work as digger, we can leave this job entirely to them and we would ease their jobs. For example they would work part time. Dont forget that everyone will live a luxury life in my system, be a grave digger or be an astronaut, everyone will live the same life standards. If you want to be a race car driver, you will be a race car driver after you provide the necessary qualifications for such a job. We want happy and efficient citizens. So when you said people would work because they love their job, this was incorrect. But somehow people will simply share the ditch digging jobs... Pure fantasy... Quote
cybercoma Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 People will dig ditches when it's necessary because it's necessary, unless they want their patch of land flooded. Quote
Ash74 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, cybercoma said: People will dig ditches when it's necessary because it's necessary, unless they want their patch of land flooded. You missed the part about it will never be THEIR land. It is all shared. Including the ditch digging and septic tank cleaning. The hope there is some training first. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
Goddess Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 I work in Project Management and a big part of it is anticipating risks and mitigating them. But in this "system", every time you mention a risk, the dictator puts you on the ignore list. 1 Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
cybercoma Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Ash74 said: You missed the part about it will never be THEIR land. It is all shared. Including the ditch digging and septic tank cleaning. The hope there is some training first. There doesn't need to be ownership of land. Do you want the place you live flooded? Probably not. Quote
Ash74 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, cybercoma said: There doesn't need to be ownership of land. Do you want the place you live flooded? Probably not. No. That is why I would pay a guy to do it for me. He or She can than go to the strip bar and have a few drinks. Hey, who will decide who works at strip bars or will we all have to take turns? Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
cybercoma Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 Why does anyone HAVE to work at a strip club? I think you're confused about what a system like this entails. Quote
Ash74 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, cybercoma said: Why does anyone HAVE to work at a strip club? I think you're confused about what a system like this entails. Some people HAVE to dig ditches. Fix toilets and other jobs that was stated we will all take turns doing. Men and women do indeed go to strip clubs. So my question is does that mean we all will take turns? Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
cybercoma Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 Sure, men and women go to strip clubs and he people who want to strip will strip and if you want your overflowing toilet fixed, you'll fix it or find someone who knows how unless you like living in poop water. Quote
Altai Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Posted October 26, 2016 16 hours ago, cybercoma said: Why does anyone HAVE to work at a strip club? I think you're confused about what a system like this entails. LoL I have no idea what they say but just dont take them seriously, they are just trying to troll my topic. Quote "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
The_Squid Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 What would happen if I wanted a really good plumber who knew what he was doing and I gave him a chocolate cake and some nicely tailored pants to fix my toilet so it works more than a few days? The other guy loves being a plumber, but sure sucks at it. People who are good at what they do will get remunerated for what they do well despite your silly system. How will non-payment be enforced? Will the plumber who accepts cakes be jailed for taking payment? A brain surgeon is not going to go to school for 10 years and become an expert in their field if they have to drive the same Toyota Corolla that the person who serves you coffee gets. Quote
Bonam Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, The_Squid said: A brain surgeon is not going to go to school for 10 years and become an expert in their field if they have to drive the same Toyota Corolla that the person who serves you coffee gets. Obviously the "system" we are discussing is ridiculous but I don't think I agree with this. I'd rather have gone to school for 8 years and become an expert in my field and do what I do now, even if I was getting paid the same as a person serving coffee, because what I do is much more interesting (to me at least) than serving coffee. I would imagine most brain surgeons (and doctors of any kind) feel the same way. Quote
Altai Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Posted October 26, 2016 5 minutes ago, The_Squid said: What would happen if I wanted a really good plumber who knew what he was doing and I gave him a chocolate cake and some nicely tailored pants to fix my toilet so it works more than a few days? The other guy loves being a plumber, but sure sucks at it. People who are good at what they do will get remunerated for what they do well despite your silly system. How will non-payment be enforced? Will the plumber who accepts cakes be jailed for taking payment? A brain surgeon is not going to go to school for 10 years and become an expert in their field if they have to drive the same Toyota Corolla that the person who serves you coffee gets. You wont pay something to the plumber, he will just do his job and leave you behind. He wont need the chocolate cake and some nice pants which you promise since he can also get them for "free" from a patisserie or clothing store. There are many people doing their job to make money in today's corrupted system. My system wont be enforced, will be offered as democratically. You are free to give your cake whoever you want but do us a favor and please keep your pants on. We dont want brain surgeons to operate on someone's brain while dreaming a nice summer house. We want them to focus on their job without irrelevant thoughts occupying their minds. Quote "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Goddess Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 Quote We want them to focus on their job without irrelevant thoughts occupying their minds. How are you going to control people's thoughts? "Thought Police"? This is sounding worse and worse to me. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
The_Squid Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 37 minutes ago, Altai said: You wont pay something to the plumber, he will just do his job and leave you behind. He wont need the chocolate cake and some nice pants which you promise since he can also get them for "free" from a patisserie or clothing store. If I make pants, I'm going to keep the nicest pants to pay for the best plumber that I can find. Quote
Ash74 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 4 hours ago, The_Squid said: If I make pants, I'm going to keep the nicest pants to pay for the best plumber that I can find. You are going to end up on the ignore list, given a boat with some paddles and sent off shore. The poster is stating it will be a democracy but has failed to be able to answer any issue that will come up with this "system" then puts these people on ignore. My question is how will this "system" function in a democracy when nobody that has posted would vote for it. Or will the people that vote against it be ignored as well? Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
Guest Posted October 27, 2016 Report Posted October 27, 2016 7 hours ago, The_Squid said: If I make pants, I'm going to keep the nicest pants to pay for the best plumber that I can find. That's pretty much what we've got now, except you get money for making pants, and you give the money to the plumber. Quote
Ash74 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Posted October 27, 2016 1 hour ago, bcsapper said: That's pretty much what we've got now, except you get money for making pants, and you give the money to the plumber. So would it not be easier to keep using money. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
Guest Posted October 27, 2016 Report Posted October 27, 2016 You wouldn't have to know your plumbers inside leg measurement, that's for sure. Quote
Ash74 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Posted October 27, 2016 Or argue over who's turn it was to work at the strip club. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
The_Squid Posted October 27, 2016 Report Posted October 27, 2016 2 hours ago, bcsapper said: That's pretty much what we've got now, except you get money for making pants, and you give the money to the plumber. Yes, I realize that. That's kind of my point..... Quote
Guest Posted October 27, 2016 Report Posted October 27, 2016 9 hours ago, The_Squid said: Yes, I realize that. That's kind of my point..... Ah. Sorry. Most of the time I don't know who's arguing for what. Quote
Ash74 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Posted October 27, 2016 1 hour ago, bcsapper said: Ah. Sorry. Most of the time I don't know who's arguing for what. In this posting we all seem to be on the same side. It is a wonderful concept but I have yet to see anybody post that it is workable in the real world Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
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