Should Canada screen potential immigrants/refugees for Canadian Values

[Machjo]

That's why Conservatives have to lie in order to make a point. They are both disgusting, but as a Conservative you have to lie about what others think in order to make yourself seem smugly superior.

The hypocricy is what turns many conservatives away from the Conservative Party. Believe it or not, many conservatives have joined the right wing of the Green Party and the Liberal Party. Among those who do join the CPC, I'm sure many do so while plugging their noses.

Yes, I do oppose gay marriage and abortion. I have no shame in saying that. But to then slander Muslims by saying they all want to kill gays is not okay. In fact, many Muslims would oppose killing gays.

As strange as it might sound, I have voted Liberal, NDP, Green, yet never Conservative Federally. Provincially, PC, Libertarian, and Green. And this in spite of my views on gay marriage and abortion. The reason for this is that the moment we must turn to hate speech and identity politics to win, we've already lost. I'm also for totally open borders by the way.

[Machjo]

Or I'm in favour fo at least far more open borders than now.

[Machjo]

In some respects, I could describe myself as a conservative-leaning universalit. I am socially conservative but strongly support freedom of religion for all religions and totally open borders. What kills social social conservatiism in Canada is that it usually goes hand in hand with ethnic nationalism.

[Benz]

No, they're not overwhelmed. They can accommodate the newcomers, if they have the money. It's the money that is in short supply. Remember that the newcomers have the same education, skillset, religion and cultural values as their neighbors, and mostly the same language. They can be accommodated for a few years, and then go back to Iraq and Syria when the fighting passes. Turkey is so 'overwhelmed' Erdogan is talking about giving the refugees Turkish citizenship. He wants a bigger population because that gives him more clout.

They are not as similar as you say. From our point of view, they all look the same but, they have several differences.

Indeed, Erdogan sees in those refugees potential supporters to his islamic positions.

No, it is the non-integration of most of them. Again, there is this prevailing attitude that the second generation will be just like us. But it isn't playing out that way. The second generation is even more strictly religious and conservative than their parents. They aren't more secular but less secular. Their value system is based on their religion. So instead of comparing them to the Ukrainians, say, or Germans or Poles who came here, compare them to the Hutterites, and Amish and Ultra Orthodox Jews. None of them have changed their cultural views or values a bit despite generations in Canada.

What do you think is the ratio of immigrants that are not integrated in our society?

[Rue]

That's why Conservatives have to lie in order to make a point. They are both disgusting, but as a Conservative you have to lie about what others think in order to make yourself seem smugly superior.

My but you are full of labels You are of course just as much a bigot in your labels as anything you accuse Argus of.

You had nothing to argue so you called him names.

The fact is you have no counter argument. Just bigoted name calling to offer.

You also do not get his point. He's not against Muslims. He's against anyone including Muslims who don't want to assimilate to Canadian values.

He's actually less of a bigot than you. You claim to be tolerant and spew name calling, He doesn't pretend to tolerate intolerance like you do.

[Smallc]

Nonsense doesn't need to be countered.

[?Impact]

He doesn't pretend to tolerate intolerance like you do.

My my, I guess you missed the part where he makes up stories about what other people think. He does that time and time again. Don't tell me what I think, then call me names for what you say I think.

[dre]

Dont worry, there isnt going to be any stupid "Canadian Values" test.

[Guest]

That's why Conservatives have to lie in order to make a point. They are both disgusting, but as a Conservative you have to lie about what others think in order to make yourself seem smugly superior.

I think one is more disgusting than the other, though.

But that's just me, I guess.

[cybercoma]

What a dumb poll, many of the questions cannot be answered. For example, it lumps refugees in with immigration - two very different issues.

A child should have: good manners or curiosity? How about both. Talk about false dichotomies all over the place.

[Argus]

Firstly, not all immigrants from 'Muslim nations' profess Islam.

Secondly, not all immigrants come from 'Muslim nations.

Thirdly, don't you see the possiblity for abuse of a 'Canadian-values' test? Imagine all of the questions any party can throw in once it forms the government after an election. Worse yet, a new governmentcould keep the same questions but change the correct answer.

There's still often a vast gulf between our values and those from other countries. It's worse for those people whose values are based on religion, however.

And no, I don't see why a Canadian government would abuse such a test. To what end? They all support large scale immigration and they all play up to immigrant/ethnic groups for votes.

[Argus]

Yes, I do oppose gay marriage and abortion. I have no shame in saying that. But to then slander Muslims by saying they all want to kill gays is not okay. In fact, many Muslims would oppose killing gays.

Who has ever said "all of them"? Isn't the point of a values test to determine which of the potential immigrants believe in Sharia's law regarding gays, not to mention what Islam says about women and Jews?

However, my thinking is that of a secular person who isn't very religious. If someone is so dedicated to their religion they're going to cloak themselves in special outfits, going to hide under hot robes and hijabs and burquas and the like, then that person is not going to simply ignore what her (or his) religion says about gays or women or Jews. If someone insists women must wear this gear, if they profess a dedication to Islam, then why would you expect them to NOT support Islamic dictates?

[Argus]

In some respects, I could describe myself as a conservative-leaning universalit. I am socially conservative but strongly support freedom of religion for all religions and totally open borders. What kills social social conservatiism in Canada is that it usually goes hand in hand with ethnic nationalism.

That is a ludicrous assertion. The reason social conservatives are mocked, jeered and ridiculed - and banned from even holding serious positions in either the Liberals or NDP, is because of their social conservative views on things like gays and abortion.

[Argus]

They are not as similar as you say. From our point of view, they all look the same but, they have several differences.

They are a hell of a lot more similar than they are to us.

What do you think is the ratio of immigrants that are not integrated in our society?

I have seen no studies, but I would say any woman wearing a hijab or other silly cultural clothing is not integrated, nor is any man who wants them to wear it. And since more than half of Muslim women in Canada now wear this stuff - and the figure is rising - I don't see a lot of integration going on. I mean, wouldn't you think there'd be fewer Muslim women wearing it, instead of a substantial increase over the past ten years?

Edited October 5, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

My my, I guess you missed the part where he makes up stories about what other people think. He does that time and time again. Don't tell me what I think, then call me names for what you say I think.

I do? Your desperate support of Islam on this web site certainly indicates a complete disregard for the well-known belief system which comes with Islam. Clearly you don't care about their beliefs.

[PIK]

Imagine if they tried to have a gay parade in a Muslim country, what do you think would happen. IMO they would be running to Israel for protection.

Edited October 5, 2016 by PIK

[DogOnPorch]

Imagine if they tried to have a gay parade in a Muslim country, what do you think would happen. IMO they would be running to Israel for protection.

If they make it that far.

Islam trumps both women's rights and any perceived rights homosexuals think they have. Both in Canada and abroad.

[Machjo]

That is a ludicrous assertion. The reason social conservatives are mocked, jeered and ridiculed - and banned from even holding serious positions in either the Liberals or NDP, is because of their social conservative views on things like gays and abortion.

So we're going to keep those damn foreigners out but legalize dope and prostitution and gambling and abortion at will, etc.

Heck, I share more in common with Muslims than with my fellow Canadians if that's the case.

[Benz]

I have seen no studies, but I would say any woman wearing a hijab or other silly cultural clothing is not integrated, nor is any man who wants them to wear it. And since more than half of Muslim women in Canada now wear this stuff - and the figure is rising - I don't see a lot of integration going on. I mean, wouldn't you think there'd be fewer Muslim women wearing it, instead of a substantial increase over the past ten years?

The number is on the rise and it is exponential. I think it is an issue but, we have a different opinion of where the issue starts.

I have no trouble with a woman wearing a hijab on the sidewalk, at a restaurant or in a cinema show. Same for the Turbans or anything else that has no link of what-so-ever with our culture. I am very pluriculturalist, but I am not multiculturalist. Where I do have a problem, is when they are stubborn and want to keep their ostentatious symbol in contexts where it does not belong. I have a huge problem with a Policeman wearing a Turban, or a judge having a Kippa, or a teacher wearing a niqab, or a soccer player wearing a hijab. A person in a position of authority should not be able to have an ostentatious religious symbol. Nor any sport for obvious reaons. A sport is not a place to practice your religion.

When someone insists to wear those things, then I consider they are not integrated. Actually, I think it's worst than that. I think they are a threat by accomplice, whether it is voluntary or not, to our society.

Recently I saw a tv report about a muslim woman wearing a hijab and trying to convince her community to accept that women share the same room of other men in the mosquee. Because as of now, they are behind a wall. So she, along other muslim women were arguing that this is not islam and the women were not segregated like that in the first few centuries of Islam. The answer from the men? The place of a woman is at home. They tolerated them at the condition they are behind the wall. The Imam said something like "women must not take heretic actions against Islam, that must not be tolerated". We could not have a her reaction and comments after the decision.

My point is, a person that has been conditionned for years and often from its youth, cannot change direction by snaping fingers. Even if the hijab represents something terrible to us because we know where and how it started, those "victims" do not understand the big picture and they need our help to figure it out. That is why I do not consider someone wearing a hijab as an enimy of the state. Even if I am not negociable regarding the rules forcing them to retire it in some specific functions or circumstances.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Benz

[Machjo]

I don't think you have to dig too deep into ones that are controversial. Just stick to the ones that there is near unanimous agreement on in Canada. I.e. all men and women are considered equal under the law and have equal rights in all aspects of life, freedom of speech (even offensive speech, but not hate speech) must be protected, separation of religion from the state, etc.

Seoaration of Church and state would conflict with the Canadian Charter if Rights and Freedoms and the BNA Act, but it could teach separation of Church and state exceot for the fact that the head of state must nevessarily adhere to the Anglican Faith and that the Constitition defends the seoarate school sysyem.

It would be ironic if the values of the test conflicted with the laws and the Constitution.

[-1=e^ipi]

Imagine if they tried to have a gay parade in a Muslim country, what do you think would happen. IMO they would be running to Israel for protection.

Well in sweden, 'anti-racist' groups protest gay pride parades in swedish areas.

[-1=e^ipi]

So we're going to keep those damn foreigners out but legalize dope and prostitution and gambling and abortion at will, etc.

Heck, I share more in common with Muslims than with my fellow Canadians if that's the case.

Yeah, if you are against freedom, maybe you should go live in Saudi Arabia.

Legalization of dope doesn't go far enough. We should legalize magic mushrooms, cocaine, heroin, LSD, acid, etc. as well. And tax it all of course.

Edited October 5, 2016 by -1=e^ipi

[Machjo]

Yeah, if you are against freedom, maybe you should go live in Saudi Arabia.

Legalization of dope doesn't go far enough. We should legalize magic mushrooms, cocaine, heroin, LSD, acid, etc. as well. And tax it all of course.

A society is supposed to have laws to protect the vulnerable. I don't profess Islam. I was born and raised in Canada. I trace my roots back to New France long before Canada even existed as a country. So no, I don't have to go to Saudi Arabia and no I don't have to belive in anarchism.

[Machjo]

But you're free to emigrate to the Netherlands if you want. I'm sure Amsterdam would be your cup of tea where sex trafficking makes up around 5% of the GDP.

[WestCoastRunner]

When someone insists to wear those things, then I consider they are not integrated. Actually, I think it's worst than that. I think they are a threat by accomplice, whether it is voluntary or not, to our society.

.

Yea you should be very afraid of those women wearing hijabs.