segnosaur Posted August 17, 2016 Report Posted August 17, 2016 This is a phenomenon that has always intrigued me. Why would you tell your enemies what you are willing or not willing to do? Why would you tell them your plan? It makes no sense whatsoever! This has already been explained. - The information typically given is generally extremely vague. They are not giving specifics about where/when they will strike. - The enemy isn't dumb enough that they will be totally oblivious to foreign troop movements... if you're sending thousands of soldiers from one location to another, or dropping bombs on a particular type of target, I'm pretty sure ISIS or other groups would figure out what is going on - In many cases, distributing such knowledge is actually necessary... plans need to be coordinated with allies, soldiers need to know where and for how long they'll be deployed, etc. Also, on the other side of the ledger, people are so used to this backwards mentality that they instantly start insulting a person like Trump because he prefers to keep silent about possible tactics... Except no, he's not. For example, against ISIS and other Terrorist groups, Trump said he would: - target ISIS's oil industry. Hmmm... if trump were President ISIS would now know to defend its oil wells - Engage in drone strikes. - Capture high value targets - Use cyber warfare All of these are rather vague (and pretty much what is already being done). But, its still a description of "tactics". Quote
Hal 9000 Posted August 17, 2016 Report Posted August 17, 2016 This has already been explained. - The information typically given is generally extremely vague. They are not giving specifics about where/when they will strike. - The enemy isn't dumb enough that they will be totally oblivious to foreign troop movements... if you're sending thousands of soldiers from one location to another, or dropping bombs on a particular type of target, I'm pretty sure ISIS or other groups would figure out what is going on - In many cases, distributing such knowledge is actually necessary... plans need to be coordinated with allies, soldiers need to know where and for how long they'll be deployed, etc. Except no, he's not. For example, against ISIS and other Terrorist groups, Trump said he would: - target ISIS's oil industry. Hmmm... if trump were President ISIS would now know to defend its oil wells - Engage in drone strikes. - Capture high value targets - Use cyber warfare All of these are rather vague (and pretty much what is already being done). But, its still a description of "tactics". Well, first off, I don't like the idea whether it be Obama, Bush, Trump or anybody else. You seem to want to think this is about the who, not the what. Secondly, the media pretty much forces the gov't and military personnel to do this, and if they don't, they're ridiculed. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
betsy Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) Obama said he'd directed to missile target ISIS convoys that go towards the city. He already directed that. Darn, what's Isis supposed to do? a. No Convoys! Don't look anything like a convoy! b. Sneak towards the city. c. Don't look like ISIS fighters. d. Don't go to that city! Why does he makes it harder for our soldiers to win? Edited August 19, 2016 by betsy Quote
BubberMiley Posted August 19, 2016 Report Posted August 19, 2016 Obama said he'd directed to missile target ISIS convoys that go towards the city. He already directed that. Darn, what's Isis supposed to do? a. No Convoys! Don't look anything like a convoy! b. Sneak towards the city. c. Don't look like ISIS fighters. d. Don't go to that city! Why does he makes it harder for our soldiers to win? Are you being serious? You think that because Obama said that, they are now ignoring any ISIS fighters not in a convoy headed for a city? Really? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
betsy Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Posted August 19, 2016 Are you being serious? You think that because Obama said that, they are now ignoring any ISIS fighters not in a convoy headed for a city? Really? ?????? Quote
kimmy Posted August 19, 2016 Report Posted August 19, 2016 You guys are being silly. Do you really believe military information disseminated to the press by the president (be it Obama, Bush, or whoever) hasn't already been vetted by military advisors? To borrow the football analogy from earlier, the stuff they're saying publicly is like announcing that your gameplan is to score touchdowns by passing and running, and to prevent your opponent from scoring touchdowns. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Argus Posted August 19, 2016 Report Posted August 19, 2016 Obama said he'd directed to missile target ISIS convoys that go towards the city. He already directed that. Darn, what's Isis supposed to do? a. No Convoys! Don't look anything like a convoy! b. Sneak towards the city. c. Don't look like ISIS fighters. d. Don't go to that city! Why does he makes it harder for our soldiers to win? Because ISIS isn't smart enough to understand that's the tactic after the first hundred convoys got hit by air attack... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted August 19, 2016 Report Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) ISIS is too stupid to understand what's happening to them yet people are still so stricken by fear they imagine ISIS is capable of taking over the world. Edited August 19, 2016 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
BubberMiley Posted August 19, 2016 Report Posted August 19, 2016 ??????Does this indicate that I've misinterpreted your point or that you are now even more confused than ever? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Bonam Posted August 19, 2016 Report Posted August 19, 2016 To borrow the football analogy from earlier, the stuff they're saying publicly is like announcing that your gameplan is to score touchdowns by passing and running, and to prevent your opponent from scoring touchdowns. -k Sometimes. But other times, information that is released is along the lines of "we will be out of the country by x date". If that information is credible, then all the enemy has to do is lie low until said date, and then resume their campaign afterwards. Quote
Big Guy Posted August 20, 2016 Report Posted August 20, 2016 Why are you assuming that what you are told by our military is true? I lived through the Vietnam war. If you were to believe the American military daily briefings then they killed everybody in North Vietnam 2 times. We were winning against ISIS in 2014. We were winning against ISIS in 2015. We were winning against ISIS at the start of 2016 and we are kicking the hell out of them right now. We should be winning against them for the next few years until we declare victory and go home. Hey, it worked in Vietnam. The land ISIS controls is their traditional home. ISIS is made up mainly of Sunni former Iraqi Republican Guard and their families live there in the past, live there now and will live there in the future. This latest American "excursion" will end just like Vietnam. Same invader, same kind of warfare, same tactics - so why not same result? Get our Canadian troops the heck out of there before they start being shipped home in bags. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
betsy Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) The land ISIS controls is their traditional home. ISIS is made up mainly of Sunni former Iraqi Republican Guard and their families live there in the past, live there now and will live there in the future. This latest American "excursion" will end just like Vietnam. Same invader, same kind of warfare, same tactics - so why not same result? Vietnam is nothing like the war on terror. For one, how many countries were involved in the war of Vietnam? What about the nature of the war? What is the real reason propelling Islamists like Isis, Al Qaeda, Taliban, etc..? If we're not going to help folks that are being oppressed by ISIS......what do you propose we should do? Take all civilians out of there, and bring them over to other countries? Turn a blind eye, and leave them to fend for themselves? You seriously think ISIS will be content to simply win all those places it's trying to invade? Nothing more? You think it won't come to our shores? Where would you rather have the war.......overseas, or here? Edited August 20, 2016 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) ISIS is too stupid to understand what's happening to them yet people are still so stricken by fear they imagine ISIS is capable of taking over the world. It's not the fear of them taking over the world. It's the havoc they create. We can't keep pretending and declare with empty bravado that it doesn't affects us. It does! Why do you think we all have these security measures? How long do you have to be in a line up at the airport? Face it. Life in our society is definitely not the same before 9/11! Edited August 20, 2016 by betsy Quote
Big Guy Posted August 20, 2016 Report Posted August 20, 2016 You seriously think ISIS will be content to simply win all those places it's trying to invade? Nothing more? You think it won't come to our shores? Where would you rather have the war.......overseas, or here? First, please get the wording right, - It is "Do you want to fight them there or do you want to fight them here" - originally used during Vietnam war and more recently by our former government describing Afghanistan. How did we do in Afghanistan? As to ISIS and Canada, I suggest that they may first need a large tank or even something that flies in the air. At the moment, their air force is made up of folks flying kites and their navy consists of logs tied together guided by a guy with a long pole. None of these potential invasion nuclear weapon transportation devices will make it easily across the Mediterranean Sea and I doubt they can get across the Atlantic Ocean. No, I do not think they will come to our shores. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted August 20, 2016 Report Posted August 20, 2016 It's not the fear of them taking over the world. It's the havoc they create.They create? How ironic given our actions that created them. We can't keep pretending and declare with empty bravado that it doesn't affects us. It does! Why do you think we all have these security measures? How long do you have to be in a line up at the airport? Face it. Life in our society is definitely not the same before 9/11! Nope it sure isn't and people warned how responding with even more of our geopolitical vandalism in the ME region would only continue to explode in our faces.And as I've said before you haven't seen anything yet. Keep on pretending you haven't heard a thing though it's what you do best. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
betsy Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Posted August 20, 2016 They create? How ironic given our actions that created them. Whatever created them.....they're now created. We can point fingers as who's to blame for their existence till we're all blue in the face. They now exists. That's the fact. And yes, they're creating havoc.....all over the world. Nope it sure isn't and people warned how responding with even more of our geopolitical vandalism in the ME region would only continue to explode in our faces.And as I've said before you haven't seen anything yet. Keep on pretending you haven't heard a thing though it's what you do best. So what do you propose we do? Quote
betsy Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) First, please get the wording right, - It is "Do you want to fight them there or do you want to fight them here" - originally used during Vietnam war and more recently by our former government describing Afghanistan. How did we do in Afghanistan? As to ISIS and Canada, I suggest that they may first need a large tank or even something that flies in the air. At the moment, their air force is made up of folks flying kites and their navy consists of logs tied together guided by a guy with a long pole. None of these potential invasion nuclear weapon transportation devices will make it easily across the Mediterranean Sea and I doubt they can get across the Atlantic Ocean. No, I do not think they will come to our shores. Feeling smugly superior, and underestimating the enemy.....naivety......can be our demise. They don't rely on tanks. They may not have their own planes......but they do improvise. Look at the planes used at 9/11. They are arriving on our shores, though not in the same way troops land on beaches. Look at Europe! They don't need missiles, either. They've got cells everywhere. They're scattered all over the world. This didn't happen overnight! Some have been with us for so long - "sleepers," I believe they're called. Fighting them overseas - foiling their aim to invade the region keep them somewhat occupied, and perhaps, distracted. What do you think will happen once their goal to invade is achieved? Who do you think will they focus on next? Edited August 20, 2016 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) First, please get the wording right, - It is "Do you want to fight them there or do you want to fight them here" - originally used during Vietnam war and more recently by our former government describing Afghanistan. How did we do in Afghanistan? This is not your typical war. To say that the war is long-termed, would be an understatement. It can go on forever. Winning or losing, comes in a different form. Edited August 20, 2016 by betsy Quote
Big Guy Posted August 20, 2016 Report Posted August 20, 2016 No, the sky is not falling. I have listened to the same arguments supporting Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan, Korea and now this civil war in Iraq and Syria. It is fear mongering that has no basis in fact but serves only to rationalize the use of Canadian blood and treasure to support American expeditions. We have more people killed in lightening strikes than by terrorists - whatever definition one uses for "terrorist". And their goal to "invade"?? Their families have lived there for centuries and they are "invading"? It is the West which is invading. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
betsy Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) No, the sky is not falling. I have listened to the same arguments supporting Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan, Korea and now this civil war in Iraq and Syria. It is fear mongering that has no basis in fact but serves only to rationalize the use of Canadian blood and treasure to support American expeditions. We have more people killed in lightening strikes than by terrorists - whatever definition one uses for "terrorist". And their goal to "invade"?? Their families have lived there for centuries and they are "invading"? It is the West which is invading. Let me repeat: this is not like your typical war. It's not about the stats of people being killed. It is about the reason behind the war on ISIS (and other Islamic terrorist groups).....it is about their intent. Just because we leave that war, doesn't mean they're no longer going to follow through with their intent. If your enemy is determined to wipe you out just for the simple reason that you aren't a practitioner of Islam, and that they see your demise as a religious duty........no amount of negotiation on your part will deter them. You'll have to stand your ground! We have a common ground with our allies....even with Russia! It's better to be on the offensive than to be on the defensive. Edited August 20, 2016 by betsy Quote
Big Guy Posted August 20, 2016 Report Posted August 20, 2016 It's better to be on the offensive than to be on the defensive. It is even better to stay out of foreign civil wars. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted August 20, 2016 Report Posted August 20, 2016 It's better to be on the offensive than to be on the defensive.Maybe if you fight to win but we fight to lose so...what's the point? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
betsy Posted August 21, 2016 Author Report Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) Maybe if you fight to win but we fight to lose so...what's the point? Exactly the point! Obama and Hillary are "fighting" to lose. To them, it's all just about looking good on tv. Edited August 21, 2016 by betsy Quote
cybercoma Posted August 21, 2016 Report Posted August 21, 2016 How do you say that with a straight face while defending Trump? Quote
Big Guy Posted August 21, 2016 Report Posted August 21, 2016 I think Trump has already given up and is planning for the future. His new advisers and their specialties suggest that Trump may be setting up for creating a really far right wing media empire. He can use the campaign as a shrouded publicity for his new business. If he does get his 50 million votes then he will have an instant viewership and readership. Trump has never been one to miss an opportunity. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
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