Jason Kenney - Unite the right in Alberta

[Smallc]

The term "settlers" is an unusual one in this context.

It's unusual in any context. I am not a settler in Canada, and I find the idea disgusting.

[Accountability Now]

I see mostly questions/confusion as to why the term "settlers" was used.

Then I guess you didn't read their comments. Here...let me repeat them:

I don't think that the indigenous people were the first settlers, probably here before the that happened.

#alwaysbeenhere

Again....you hit the nail on the head. This is a few internet trolls, so why CBC decided to waste time on this article is beyond me.

[Accountability Now]

It's unusual in any context. I am not a settler in Canada, and I find the idea disgusting.

What is so unusual about the word 'settler'?

[Michael Hardner]

#stopthreaddrift

18 posts on the etymology of "Settler" and First Nations people...

It's an interesting discussion for another thread - this is about Jason Kenny and Alberta.

[The_Squid]

Then I guess you didn't read their comments. Here...let me repeat them:

I don't think that the indigenous people were the first settlers, probably here before the that happened.

#alwaysbeenhere

Again....you hit the nail on the head. This is a few internet trolls, so why CBC decided to waste time on this article is beyond me.

One person who tweets dumb things does not mean that this is a common viewpoint.

But Kenney using the term "settlers" to refer to indigenous people is still odd, despite the fact that some people may not understand that people first came here 12-15,000 years ago.

Incidentally, that's about the same time that the first Homo sapiens were thought to have come to the British Isles... But the funny thing about the British Isles is that there is evidence for pre-human hominids to have been there up to 800,000 years before that! Very interesting stuff, and completely off-topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_settlement_of_the_British_Isles

Humans probably returned to the region of the British/Irish peninsula about 14,700 years ago as the Ice Age started to end.

[The_Squid]

#stopthreaddrift

18 posts on the etymology of "Settler" and First Nations people...

It's an interesting discussion for another thread - this is about Jason Kenny and Alberta.

It's not about Jason Kenney's tweets? We can't discuss what he has been tweeting of late?

That's narrowing the topic a bit too much.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes - discuss his tweets ... but if it goes off and you are now discussing the topic itself (at length) then that's different.

[jacee]

Just reading the reaction to Jason Kenney's tweet about Aboriginal Day. Some people sure have a lot to say about nothing.

It isn't "nothing": It's very calculated political propaganda.

It's 'interesting', but not surprising to me, that Jason Kenney has adopted the white supremacists' propaganda line, designed to dismiss Indigenous rights since they were 'just early settlers/immigrants too'.

I'm not sure why they think that matters, since Indigenous Peoples definitely were here way before European settlers, with defined territories spanning the continent. And we did make treaties with them on that basis, for the right to share their land.

It's also becoming increasingly irrelevant, as evidence (and controversy) emerges about human life in Canada since well before the ice age/ice bridge.

https://tworowtimes.com/news/local/100000-year-old-stone-tools-found-haldimand-norfolk/

As for uniting the right in Alberta, I hope he does leave Ottawa and devote his efforts to that instead.

.

Edited June 24, 2016 by jacee

[Smallc]

What is so unusual about the word 'settler'?

It's unusual in the context that it's being used, whether to refer to aboriginal or non aboriginal Canadians.

[Accountability Now]

It's unusual in the context that it's being used, whether to refer to aboriginal or non aboriginal Canadians.

What is so unusual about the fact that people used to live somewhere else, moved and then settled elsewhere?

Again this whole article lacks substance as all its doing is reporting about some internet trolls tweeting about their lack of historical understanding.

[The_Squid]

What is so unusual about the fact that people used to live somewhere else, moved and then settled elsewhere?

Nothing. You are purposely ignoring the fact that we are talking about the terms used to describe indigenous people, not the fact that they came from elsewhere 15,000 years ago.

It's also becoming increasingly irrelevant, as evidence (and controversy) emerges about human life in Canada since well before the ice age/ice bridge.

What evidence is there that there was human habitation prior to last ice age? All the evidence points to the dispersal into N. America being at the end of the ice age, not before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas

[Smallc]

What is so unusual about the fact that people used to live somewhere else, moved and then settled elsewhere?

Again this whole article lacks substance as all its doing is reporting about some internet trolls tweeting about their lack of historical understanding.

I'm according to this terminology a settler. I'm not a settler (I'm not aboriginal).

[Guest]

It isn't "nothing": It's very calculated political propaganda.

It's 'interesting', but not surprising to me, that Jason Kenney has adopted the white supremacists' propaganda line, designed to dismiss Indigenous rights since they were 'just early settlers/immigrants too'.

I'm not sure why they think that matters, since Indigenous Peoples definitely were here way before European settlers, with defined territories spanning the continent. And we did make treaties with them on that basis, for the right to share their land.

It's also becoming increasingly irrelevant, as evidence (and controversy) emerges about human life in Canada since well before the ice age/ice bridge.

https://tworowtimes.com/news/local/100000-year-old-stone-tools-found-haldimand-norfolk/

As for uniting the right in Alberta, I hope he does leave Ottawa and devote his efforts to that instead.

.

Sprouted, then?

Actually, I did concede the point earlier:

Okay, okay, let's lose the word "settled". Sheesh!

Lets just say they came across the ice bridge, liked what they saw and decided to put down roots, raise a family and stick around for a while.

Of course, you have controversial evidence about an ice bridge, so let's just say that at some point after Lucy's ancestors left Africa, some of them came to what would one day be called Canada, liked what they saw and decided to put down roots, raise a family and stick around for a while.

Edited June 25, 2016 by bcsapper

[jacee]

Sprouted, then?

Actually, I did concede the point earlier:

Of course, you have controversial evidence about an ice bridge, so let's just say that at some point after Lucy's ancestors left Africa, some of them came to what would one day be called Canada, liked what they saw and decided to put down roots, raise a family and stick around for a while.

Possibly.

"Sprouted" is still in play too.

Edited June 25, 2016 by jacee

[Accountability Now]

Nothing. You are purposely ignoring the fact that we are talking about the terms used to describe indigenous people, not the fact that they came from elsewhere 15,000 years ago.

I'm according to this terminology a settler. I'm not a settler (I'm not aboriginal).

For the love of everything holy. Will the two of you actually read the tweet before commenting on it? Here I'll post it again for clarity:

On Aboriginal Day we honour those who first settled in Canada, and their generations of descendants.

Lets walk through this one:

....those who first settled (meaning the first aboriginals to come over) AND....wait for it...wait for it.....their generations of DESCENDANTS (meaning all those that were born after the settlers came. )

So no SmallC....you are not a settler but your ancestors were just like current day aboriginals are NOT settlers but their ancestors were. However, all people in North America are the descendants of settlers.

So again....what about Jason Kenney's tweet was factually incorrect?

Edited June 25, 2016 by Accountability Now

[jacee]

For the love of everything holy. Will the two of you actually read the tweet before commenting on it? Here I'll post it again for clarity:

Lets walk through this one:

....those who first settled (meaning the first aboriginals to come over) AND....wait for it...wait for it.....their generations of DESCENDANTS (meaning all those that were born after the settlers came. )

So no SmallC....you are not a settler but your ancestors were just like current day aboriginals are NOT settlers but their ancestors were. However, all people in North America are the descendants of settlers.

So again....what about Jason Kenney's tweet was factually incorrect?

Nothing perhaps.

It's just very telling that he's adopted the white supremacist propaganda line.

.

[The_Squid]

Nothing perhaps.

It's just very telling that he's adopted the white supremacist propaganda line.

.

Really? That sounds like silly hyperbole to me. White supremacists! Why didn't you just call then Nazis?? lol

[The_Squid]

Nothing perhaps.

It's just very telling that he's adopted the white supremacist propaganda line.

.

Still waiting for that evidence of occupation before the ice age.....

[jacee]

Still waiting for that evidence of occupation before the ice age.....

I posted a link earlier.

.

[The_Squid]

I posted a link earlier.

.

That's a really poor article with really poor evidence. No cited sources other than a dead scientist... no published works. That's not science... that's assertions no different than religion. They believe because they want to believe.

Until there's evidence and properly conducted science, I will believe the current concensus. Anything else is like the climate deniers and the creationsits.

[Smallc]

So again....what about Jason Kenney's tweet was factually incorrect?

You misunderstand - it's not him or his tweet I take issue with, but the interpretation of it. The people who think he said aboriginals are just another group of settlers are the people who think that non aboriginals are settlers on aboriginal land.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Smallc

[Accountability Now]

You misunderstand

Yes...I did misunderstand. Sorry.

[jacee]

That's a really poor article with really poor evidence. No cited sources other than a dead scientist... no published works. That's not science... that's assertions no different than religion. They believe because they want to believe.

Until there's evidence and properly conducted science, I will believe the current concensus.

Go right ahead.

Still controversial, for sure.

But the new site makes it interesting.

Here's the old one:

http://www.magma.ca/~rel/sheg/shegcore.html

Michael may say this is off topic, but it directly relates to Jason Kenney's political statement ... and why we don't need him in Ottawa.

Whether he can unite the right in Alberta remains to be seen, and I wish him well in his efforts ... out of Ottawa.

Edited June 25, 2016 by jacee

[Accountability Now]

Michael may say this is off topic, but it directly relates to Jason Kenney's political statement ... and why we don't need him in Ottawa.

Whether he can unite the right in Alberta remains to be seen, and I wish him well in his efforts ... out of Ottawa.

As Squid has already stated, your relation of Kenney's statement to white supremacy is pure hyperbole which is really par for the course when it comes to your statements.

[jacee]

As Squid has already stated, your relation of Kenney's statement to white supremacy is pure hyperbole which is really par for the course when it comes to your statements.

Not just my statement:

Kenney's statement adopts well known white supremacist 'logic':

A logic of white supremacy, colonialism, as described by Andrea Smith holds that Indigenous peoples must disappear. In fact, they must always be disappearing, in order to enable non-indigenous peoples rightful claim to land

http://www.academia.edu/2259929/Colonialism_Two-Spirit_Identity_and_the_Logics_of_White_Supremacy

The days of blatantly 'disappearing' the Indigenous people to steal their land and resources are over.

Now it's insidious white supremacist propaganda to disappear them by claiming they are just 'settlers' like us.

And Kenney knows exactly what he's trying to do.

Maybe it works in Alberta.

.

Edited June 25, 2016 by jacee