Transgender

[Ash74]

That was the culture of the time.

Do you know that during those days, some people volunteered to become slaves for economic reasons?

The Bible contains rules about slavery, and they were given to protect the slaves.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

In modern times like black slavery, both sides cite the Bible!

Though pro-slavery people point to the Bible to justify their deeds, abolitionists were motivated by the Scriptures in their fight against slavery.

So which side of the slavery part do you fall?

Cause you just justified slavery as a milder kinder way of dealing with people in during bad economic times. Personally I feel it is wrong to own a human being but than again I am not a believer.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. ²⁷ In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men,

I don't understand how anyone can get away with this gay bashing on this forum and hide behind a bible. It is a clear smear of a certain group of individuals. If any other group were smeared like this 'shameful acts', 'shameful lusts', the posts would almost certainly be deleted.

I may not agree with what is being said here and despise it but I would never ever say it should be banned or censored.

Betsey is very much the minority here and should be able to voice an opinion.

[?Impact]

So which side of the slavery part do you fall?

Although slavery was a common part of life in the time and place Jesus lived, I am unaware of any statements he made against it. Perhaps we can be enlightened by the faithful. The excuse slavery was 'Old Testament' does not take, there are many references in the New Testament as well:

Matthew 18:25 - But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

In fact many Christian slave owners used to cite:

Ephesians 6:5-9 - Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

I sense an argument coming on about interpreting instead of taking the Bible literally.

[WestCoastRunner]

So which side of the slavery part do you fall?

Cause you just justified slavery as a milder kinder way of dealing with people in during bad economic times. Personally I feel it is wrong to own a human being but than again I am not a believer.

I may not agree with what is being said here and despise it but I would never ever say it should be banned or censored.

Betsey is very much the minority here and should be able to voice an opinion.

Smearing millions of Individuals by quoting a portion of some bible is insulting to the lgbt community.

I should be able to say that all conservatives are crazy fools since that is an opinion. But I bet I wouldn't get away with that. What's the difference? Because I'm not quoting a bible?

[Guest]

Smearing millions of Individuals by quoting a portion of some bible is insulting to the lgbt community.

I should be able to say that all conservatives are crazy fools since that is an opinion. But I bet I wouldn't get away with that. What's the difference? Because I'm not quoting a bible?

I think you could say that, and get away with it, but should you do so it would speak more to the kind of person you are than say anything valid about anyone else. It's the same with those who have religious views of homosexuality. Their views are nonsense, because they are based on religion, but I would not silence them. Better to know who holds them, and argue with them.

[Ash74]

Smearing millions of Individuals by quoting a portion of some bible is insulting to the lgbt community.

I should be able to say that all conservatives are crazy fools since that is an opinion. But I bet I wouldn't get away with that. What's the difference? Because I'm not quoting a bible?

Would not bother me. It is implied that all conservatives are racist,gun toting, bible thumping,heartless thugs.

Small matter if it is said.

I feel I do not have the right to say who a person can love or have sex with. None of my concern. As long as they have that right.

I don't look at a guy and think romantic thoughts but can and have watched women go to town on each other.

To each there own.

[betsy]

Actually your original reference (1 Corinthians 6:9) is from the English Standard Version. If you want to quote the NIV then you should quote it properly. Also note which revision of the NIV you are quoting (1966, 1984, or 2011) because that passage is different in each of them.

There are revisions but the message doesn't really differ.

[betsy]

So which side of the slavery part do you fall?

Cause you just justified slavery as a milder kinder way of dealing with people in during bad economic times. Personally I feel it is wrong to own a human being but than again I am not a believer.

I may not agree with what is being said here and despise it but I would never ever say it should be banned or censored.

Betsey is very much the minority here and should be able to voice an opinion.

That was in the ancient times. That was the culture of the time. Slavery then was not based on race, either.

Compared to the kind of slavery we know today - it is milder.

Black slavery that we are familiar with, happened in the modern times. Of course I'd be an abolitionist.

Slavers had used and twisted the Scriptures to suit their purpose. Read my response to Impact below.

?Impact

Although slavery was a common part of life in the time and place Jesus lived, I am unaware of any statements he made against it. Perhaps we can be enlightened by the faithful. The excuse slavery was 'Old Testament' does not take, there are many references in the New Testament as well:

Matthew 18:25 - But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

In fact many Christian slave owners used to cite:

Ephesians 6:5-9 - Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

I sense an argument coming on about interpreting instead of taking the Bible literally.

It is not an excuse. It's just clarifying the slavery of ancient times in comparison to slavery/human trafficking we know today.

A lot of slaves in ancient times were spoils of war.

Human trafficking (pretty much like they did to blacks from Africa), was forbidden in biblical times.

Exodus 21:16

“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

1 Timothy 1

⁸ We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

⁹ We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, ¹⁰ for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine ¹¹ that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

The New Testament speaks of the spiritual worth of mankind. Jesus stayed away from politics.

Galatians 3

²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave^[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Slavery was abolished in England due to conversions of slave masters to Christianity, thanks to the preachings of John Wesley and George Whitefield.

Ephesians 6

⁵ Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. ⁶ Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. ⁷ Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, ⁸ because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

⁹ And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Actually the instructions to obey your masters in Eph 6 (not as slaves of men, but as slaves of Christ)....is actually a good advice if you apply it to your employment. If you do your best conscientiously (dedicating your work to God) - you're more likely to be noticed by your employer and good things can come from that.

A Christian who dedicate his works and sacrifice to God, is less likely to feel miserable in his situation. His patience and perseverance could go on. His dedication to God is what will give him strength and endurance.

Obedience to authority is prominent in Christ's teachings....because it is analogous to humble obedience to God.

It is pertinent to the first Commandment...."I am the Lord, thy God."

Everything we're discussing about right now about homosexuality, all boils down to humble obedience to God's will.

People may not want to accept it....some Christians may not agree with it....

..........but that's the Commandment in a nutshell: humbly bow to the Lordship of God.

Edited July 5, 2016 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

That was in the ancient times. That was the culture of the time. Slavery then was not based on race, either.

Black slavery that we are familiar with, happened in the modern times. Of course I'd be an abolitionist.

Abolitionism was a movement to set slaves free.

Letting an individual love whomever they want is freedom as well but according to your beliefs they shouldn't be set free to live their authentic self.

Do I have that right Betsy?

[WestCoastRunner]

I think you could say that, and get away with it, but should you do so it would speak more to the kind of person you are than say anything valid about anyone else. It's the same with those who have religious views of homosexuality. Their views are nonsense, because they are based on religion, but I would not silence them. Better to know who holds them, and argue with them.

You are probably right. Maybe;)

[Ash74]

That was in the ancient times. That was the culture of the time. Slavery then was not based on race, either.

Black slavery that we are familiar with, happened in the modern times. Of course I'd be an abolitionist.

Ahhhhh yes but current culture of the times is the acceptance of homosexual couples.

Also how can you be ok with slavery as long as it is not based on race?

[betsy]

Ahhhhh yes but current culture of the times is the acceptance of homosexual couples.

Also how can you be ok with slavery as long as it is not based on race?

I didn't say I'm okay with slavery. I'm just pointing out that slavery in biblical times was not based on race.

As for acceptance of gay marriage - as far as I know, the right to religious belief is pretty much part of our current culture.

I may have to tolerate, but I'm not forced to accept it. Not yet, anyway.

Tolerance swings both ways.

I think much of the anger from the religious is not so much about homosexuals coming out of the closet, but that they're being forced to accept it the same way a secularist would, and they feel the pressure to go against their religious belief.

Believe it or not, I had good homosexual friends in university- the flamboyant types of gay, they were really out of the closet even then - - they're both married to women now, with children!

I managed to locate one at facebook and we're friends - and I saw pics of his family.

I didn't ask about his transformation but I could tell he became a born-again Christian. We didn't bring up the past.

Edited July 5, 2016 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

I think much of the anger from the religious is not so much about homosexuals coming out of the closet, but that they're being forced to accept it the same way a secularist would, and they feel the pressure to go against their religious belief.

Believe it or not, I had good homosexual friends in university- the flamboyant types of gay, they were really out of the closet even then - - they're both married to women now, with children!

I managed to locate one at facebook and we're friends - and I saw pics of his family.

I didn't ask about his transformation but I could tell he became a born-again Christian. We didn't bring up the past.

You amaze me. You actually think quoting scriptures about gays committing heinous acts is really about religious folks being forced to accept it?

And yea some of my good friends are religious too. So what?

[The_Squid]

God thought owning people and beating them if they didn't obey you was an OK thing to do.... That makes Him evil.

[The_Squid]

Betsy, should divorce and adultery be against the law in Canada?

[WestCoastRunner]

By the way. I have a lot of experience dealing with individuals brainwashed by religion. When they are challenged on their beliefs they usually don't know how to respond until they check back in with their mentor or they just ignore the challenges.

I can see this behaviour with Betsy. I have seen it over and over again many times. Betsy truly believes that the gay community are sinners and they teach their children and anyone else who will listen. They are dangerous.

[TimG]

By the way. I have a lot of experience dealing with individuals brainwashed by religion.

Religion comes in many forms and not all of them depend on old books. Some are simply ideologies shared by fellow believers. You are definitely brainwashed by your own religion so I find it amusing that you claim to speak with so much authority on the topic of brainwashing. Edited July 5, 2016 by TimG

[?Impact]

Exodus 21:16

“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

You do realize that is talking about stealing from another slaver? Did you read what came before in Exodus 21?

Exodus 21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.

You do not stealeth a free man, you stealeth a slave from another master; that is the crime you commit.

[WestCoastRunner]

Religion comes in many forms and not all of them depend on old books. Some are simply ideologies shared by fellow believers. You are definitely brainwashed by your own religion so I find it amusing that you claim to speak with so much authority on the topic of brainwashing.

I know more about it then you ever will.

[TimG]

I know more about it then you ever will.

It really depends on your level of self-awareness. If you really believe that you are significantly different from the 'brainwashed' people you criticize then I would say you don't know much. A little humility and self knowledge goes a long way.

[WestCoastRunner]

It really depends on your level of self-awareness. If you really believe that you are significantly different from the 'brainwashed' people you criticize then I would say you don't know much. A little humility and self knowledge goes a long way.

Here's the thing. I'm not that different from the people that I've been very close to who have been brainwashed. I assure you. These techniques affects so many families and tears apart so many families. It doesn't matter if it's Christianity, jehovas witness, or any other religion. It's insidious and it tears apart families.

[Bryan]

Here's the thing. I'm not that different from the people that I've been very close to who have been brainwashed. I assure you. These techniques affects so many families and tears apart so many families. It doesn't matter if it's Christianity, jehovas witness, or any other religion. It's insidious and it tears apart families.

You are spreading hate. You are dangerous.

[WestCoastRunner]

You are spreading hate. You are dangerous.

What happened to Betsy?

[WestCoastRunner]

What happened to Betsy? Are you her mouthpiece? [/ aquote]

[Bryan]

What happened to Betsy?

No idea, she can speak for herself.

[WestCoastRunner]

You are spreading hate. You are dangerous.

I am speaking out for the lgbt community. How can that possibly be hate? How is that dangerous to defend a group of people that Betsy attacks?