What is a "Social Democrat?"

[betsy]

I remember a poster mentioning it......wondering if I confuse it with socialism.

What exactly is a Social Democrat?

[Guest]

Someone who goes to a party after voting.

[WestCoastRunner]

Someone who goes to a party after voting.

Priceless

[jacee]

I remember a poster mentioning it......wondering if I confuse it with socialism.

What exactly is a Social Democrat?

A social democracy is a blend of capitalism and socialism ... free enterprise in a context of social justice.

Wiki says ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving collective bargaining arrangements, a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.[1][2][3] Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes;

It's the ideal. ?

In my social democracy, there would be minimum income, and maximum income.

There wouldn't be super rich people, nor super poor.

.

Edited April 11, 2016 by jacee

[segnosaur]

Some terms tend to change over time.

Decades ago, the term "socialism" was applied to a political system whereby the government was in complete control of the economy. (It was considered a step along the road to communism, where the 'government' would eventually disappear once everyone was happy.)

In the modern world, the term 'socialism' is often applied to a system where the government does control certain aspects of the economy (e.g. financial regulations, and a social safety net, perhaps some industries nationalized), but a certain amount of free enterprise is still allowed.

Social democrats believe in maintaining a strong free enterprise system but with things like a social safety net, income redistribution, etc.

For better or worse, the terms are fairly fuzzy, with a certain amount of overlap, and some people who label themselves 'socialist' would probably be better to call themselves 'social democrats'.

In general, the political spectrum looks like this:

Communism - Socialism - Social Democrat - Moderate/Centrist - Conservative - Fascist

The difference between a socialist and a social democrat is the amount of control they expect the government to have over the economy.

[Hydraboss]

So, basically China with a minimum guaranteed income?

[jacee]

So, basically China with a minimum guaranteed income?

Basically a social democracy is what we all want, and we can make it what we want.

.

[Hydraboss]

Basically a social democracy is what we all want

I think you're overreaching significantly with that statement. I, for one, do not want any type of democracy where social justice warriors have any say in our governance. I prefer capitalism without the political correctness thank you.

[jacee]

I think you're overreaching significantly with that statement. I, for one, do not want any type of democracy where social justice warriors have any say in our governance. I prefer capitalism without the political correctness thank you.

Why choose Canada then? ?

You want to give up your health care?

Social justice warriors got that for you.

In democracy, everyone has a say in our governance.

Unbridled capitalism is predatory.

You need us. ?

Edited April 12, 2016 by jacee

[eyeball]

I, for one, do not want any type of democracy where social justice warriors have any say in our governance.

What sort of justice warriors would you prefer?

[segnosaur]

I think you're overreaching significantly with that statement. I, for one, do not want any type of democracy where social justice warriors have any say in our governance. I prefer capitalism without the political correctness thank you.

Why choose Canada then?

You want to give up your health care?

Social justice warriors got that for you.

Actually no, they didn't.

Not sure if this was what Hydraboss was arguing. But, the term "social justice warrior" (a.k.a. SJW) is not the same as "socialist" or "social democrat". Generally, SJW is used more as an insult; it is typically used to refer to people who, more or less, go "over the top" with ideas that are typically not well thought out.

It is possible for someone to be both in favor of some basic regulations yet be opposed to "social justice warriors".

In democracy, everyone has a say in our governance.

On the other hand, there is the concept of "tyranny of the masses"... the idea that unbridled democracy can lead to a curtailing of basic freedoms.

Canada can be classified as a "democracy", but we also we also have certain constitutional/legal protections (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.) that cannot be taken away even if such actions are favored by the democratic majority. I'm sure most Canadians would want a certain amount of our economic freedom to be included in the list of things that cannot be removed through democratic means.

[Bonam]

Canada can be classified as a "democracy", but we also we also have certain constitutional/legal protections (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.) that cannot be taken away even if such actions are favored by the democratic majority. I'm sure most Canadians would want a certain amount of our economic freedom to be included in the list of things that cannot be removed through democratic means.

All of those things can be removed through democratic means, it just takes a little more work. The constitution/charter can be modified, they are not unalterable. Additionally, the charter can be re-interpreted to mean whatever the heck the supreme court wants it to mean, and this interpretation tends to shift over time to reflect changing social norms. If an overwhelming majority of Canadians come to believe that freedom of speech should no longer be protected, the charter or the interpretation thereof will over time come to reflect that.

[eyeball]

Not sure if this was what Hydraboss was arguing. But, the term "social justice warrior" (a.k.a. SJW) is not the same as "socialist" or "social democrat". Generally, SJW is used more as an insult; it is typically used to refer to people who, more or less, go "over the top" with ideas that are typically not well thought out.

It is possible for someone to be both in favor of some basic regulations yet be opposed to "social justice warriors".

I'll bet it's virtually impossible to go over the top when applying the term.

[jacee]

It is possible for someone to be both in favor of some basic regulations yet be opposed to "social justice warriors".

Social justice issues and 'warriors' arise when needed to correct imbalances due to predators taking more than their share and giving none back.

Tommy Douglas was a social justice warrior who never deviated from his beliefs and brought about the biggest social justice accomplishment in Canadian history: health care.

Social justice activism is strong again now because deregulation and globalization have gutted the rights and benefits of working people.

We pay the taxes, predatory capitalists make the profits, stash it offshore, don't pay their taxes ... and still get free health care, roads and infrastructure ... paid for by the rest of us!!

The balance has been lost, and the social justice backlash is here.

.

[eyeball]

Jesus was a SJW. Was what happened to him over-the-top?

[jacee]

Jesus was a SJW. Was what happened to him over-the-top?

One of my favourite quotes:

If anyone ever asks you What Would Jesus Do? Remind him that flipping over tables and chasing [moneylenders] with a whip is within the realm of possibilities.

And ...

"Celebrate Easter ... Flog a banker ... it's what Jesus would do."

You know that the only reason there are democracies is so the people won't riot against the money bags.

It's just a small sop to keep the masses indebted and subservient to the 'masters' ... while they rob us blind.

.

[eyeball]

Brings to mind why right-wingers will likely nail him to another cross the minute he comes back.

[jacee]

Brings to mind why right-wingers will likely nail him to another cross the minute he comes back.

No sh!t Sherlock.

Electronic table-turning rocks.

:-)

[Scott Mayers]

Basically a social democracy is what we all want, and we can make it what we want.

.

I can't figure out WHICH system is ideal and why I thus support social democratic concepts. They are still fluid enough and at least for now, all we can hope for. I also share the same arguments you do on this issue for what this is about and with similar 'ideals'. If they are or are not possible is a different question. But the extremes ARE even more divisive and too hard to reconcile.

[August1991]

Some terms tend to change over time.

Decades ago, the term "socialism" was applied to a political system whereby the government was in complete control of the economy. (It was considered a step along the road to communism, where the 'government' would eventually disappear once everyone was happy.)

In the modern world, the term 'socialism' is often applied to a system where the government does control certain aspects of the economy (e.g. financial regulations, and a social safety net, perhaps some industries nationalized), but a certain amount of free enterprise is still allowed.

Social democrats believe in maintaining a strong free enterprise system but with things like a social safety net, income redistribution, etc.

....

God help us all from such nonsense, segnosaur.

Once upon a time, it was "progressive" to prohibit the sale of alcohol.

=====

Back in the real world, socialism has a different, more precise meaning - according to my modern, progressive friends.

Edited April 23, 2016 by August1991