Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 And your expertise in this area is derived from your extensive training and military experience? It's all about policy. Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 As long as there's nice weather, you mean. It's almost 7000 tons and stabilizing fins. I'm sure it can take bad weather. There are few armed icebreakers in the world with a higher ice rating. Quote
Argus Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 It's all about policy. I've written policy. Policy needs to be derived from facts and experience. You don't seem to have either. Now you might say I'm lacking in the same areas, but my wishes seem to be the same as that of the military. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 It's almost 7000 tons and stabilizing fins. I'm sure it can take bad weather. There are few armed icebreakers in the world with a higher ice rating. The point is they can't even go up north when it's winter. The Russians have no such problem. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 I've written policy. Policy needs to be derived from facts and experience. You don't seem to have either. Now you might say I'm lacking in the same areas, but my wishes seem to be the same as that of the military. Military policy is about what the people want, not facts. Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 The point is they can't even go up north when it's winter. The Russians have no such problem. There is almost no country that can do that, other than Russia. Quote
Wilber Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 We can't go there but there is no reason to be there. We're in great shape. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Army Guy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Posted July 6, 2016 Military policy is about what the people want, not facts. And here it is folks....this is what it all boils down to....Our military policy is not based on facts, or what is best for the nation.....but rather what Canadians want..... Can we apply this to all our policies....Such as taxes, Most Canadians want lower taxes above most topics....How about higher CPP pay outs....foreign policy do we have a say in that....ask eyeball if he had a say in our involvement in Afghanistan....how about language issues , is there anything we have a direct say in.....That the people want....instead of basing it on facts.... Why is it we do not have a voice in these matters .....But we the people can have a say in all things military....to which the average Canadian knows nothing or very little about.... SO what we have here is a failure to communicate.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) We can't go there but there is no reason to be there. We're in great shape. We have a ship that can go there in the winter, as does the US. Other than that and the Russians, no one can. Edited July 6, 2016 by Smallc Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 And here it is folks....this is what it all boils down to....Our military policy is not based on facts, or what is best for the nation.....but rather what Canadians want..... Democracy is a funny thing. The 'best' this is often subjective anyway. Can we apply this to all our policies....Such as taxes, Most Canadians want lower taxes above most topics....How about higher CPP pay outs....foreign policy do we have a say in that....ask eyeball if he had a say in our involvement in Afghanistan....how about language issues , is there anything we have a direct say in.....That the people want....instead of basing it on facts.... Everything already works that way. That's what representative democracy is about. Why is it we do not have a voice in these matters .....But we the people can have a say in all things military....to which the average Canadian knows nothing or very little about.... We already have a say in everything. Where do you get the idea that we don't? Quote
Army Guy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Posted July 6, 2016 Democracy is a funny thing. The 'best' this is often subjective anyway. Everything already works that way. That's what representative democracy is about. We already have a say in everything. Where do you get the idea that we don't? That is not how todays democracy works....And yes the best is subjective if it not subjected to facts...but only opinion.... That is not how it works, the person who you elected because of election promises or party platforms is no more than dreams and lies....only to be broken once elected...once reality sets in.... You don't have a say in jack shit, you may think you do, by voting for the person who's campaign or promises fit your needs or wants, but that is where it ends............Did our government ask Canadians about the tax rates, our involvement in Afghanistan, the language issues face by our nation, or native American rights and how they are treated.....I must of missed those talks....our current governmental system is based on what is popular, not what is right for the nation....sorry I forgot what is right is also subjective....never mind what is the responsible thing to do.....If you are correct why does government need to be so large, full of experts in their fields...shit the people seem to know what is best, and the government just wants to do what is popular....what is the point really..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Argus Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 Military policy is about what the people want, not facts. So when the military set forth on paper how many troops they need to fulfill their NATO obligations that's got nothing to do with facts? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 There is almost no country that can do that, other than Russia. Wrong. There are almost no countries that have put in the effort except Russia - our neighbours, the largest threat to us. Maybe you might pause to consider why they've put in that effort. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
?Impact Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 But we the people can have a say in all things military....to which the average Canadian knows nothing or very little about.... The average Canadian knows about what country they want to live in. No they should not be saying which pattern of camouflage the military should be using, or how to plan an conduct a military engagement. What they can say however is how much we want to spend on the military, and what role they should be playing. It is not up to the military to decide they want to engage in a conflict overseas, or at home. Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 So when the military set forth on paper how many troops they need to fulfill their NATO obligations that's got nothing to do with facts? The government has every right to set policy. Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 Wrong. There are almost no countries that have put in the effort except Russia - our neighbours, the largest threat to us. Maybe you might pause to consider why they've put in that effort. They aren't much match for a fighter jet Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 That is not how todays democracy works Of course it's how it works - people choose the government, and through that government, get to set policy. ....And yes the best is subjective if it not subjected to facts...but only opinion.... It's usually subjective. There is very rarely a simple best. That is not how it works, the person who you elected because of election promises or party platforms is no more than dreams and lies....only to be broken once elected...once reality sets in.... That's more opinion than anything. You don't have a say in jack shit, you may think you do, by voting for the person who's campaign or promises fit your needs or wants, but that is where it ends............Did our government ask Canadians about the tax rates, our involvement in Afghanistan, the language issues face by our nation, or native American rights and how they are treated.....I must of missed those talks....our current governmental system is based on what is popular, not what is right for the nation....sorry I forgot what is right is also subjective....never mind what is the responsible thing to do.....If you are correct why does government need to be so large, full of experts in their fields...shit the people seem to know what is best, and the government just wants to do what is popular....what is the point really..... There are hearings, consultations, and surveys all the time. You can also call up your representative at any time and make a difference. I've done it. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) The average Canadian knows about what country they want to live in. No they should not be saying which pattern of camouflage the military should be using, or how to plan an conduct a military engagement. What they can say however is how much we want to spend on the military, and what role they should be playing. It is not up to the military to decide they want to engage in a conflict overseas, or at home. Where did I say the military decides anything in regards to roles or conflicts etc....The military however advises the current government on what it is capable of doing or not capable of doing. how much it is going to cost in resources and lives.... It is the government that is expected to take that council and make the "right" choice. be it popular or not with the people , See where i'm going here, just as with any dept be it finance, health, education, immigration etc etc....these decisions are what we elect these individuals to make.....in other words be governed by the "right" choice not the popular one....getting re elected should never be the prime objective of any politician....But rather a product of good , responsible leadership.... That is democracy, however it does have it's limitations....for instance when a government decides to stick it's nose in where it has no expertise at all....example of that is the replacement of the F-18, here we have civilians making a choice that they have no back ground on....today we see the liberals trying to push through a purchase of the super hornet...something like sending your wife down to the hardware store to buy your tools....And it is not just the F-18, it is that way for every purchase, trucks , tanks, wpns....etc....Government has the final say with a whole new bunch of bench marks they consider more important than anything the military can come up with.... Prime example, LSVW a middle of the road design, by Italy, that western star in BC was going to manufacture....Now as with all new purchases a competition was held, the LSVW places in last place, but western star bid has more off sets the government likes....So it orders separate testing of the veh, take it to the desert in the US test it until it passes.... and poof contract awarded....less than 10 years later, the entire fleet is suffering from severe rust out, modifications are done, a rebuild ordered, at the 15 year mark vehs are pulled off the road, it seems massive holes are discovered under passenger and drivers floor boards....along with massive rust out of bodies, and frames.....Most of todays LSVW fleets now sit in compounds rusting out ....not fit to drive.... If the government wants to control the military it could set out some ground rules....such as all strategic purchases have to be approved by parliament such as nuclear subs, aircraft carriers, bombers, etc....The small stuff like trucks , tanks, arty, f-18's should be restrict or control by the amount of funding made available....The military should be able to spend the funds made available to them and purchase the equipment that best suits there needs.... Edited July 6, 2016 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Posted July 6, 2016 Of course it's how it works - people choose the government, and through that government, get to set policy. It's usually subjective. There is very rarely a simple best. That's more opinion than anything. There are hearings, consultations, and surveys all the time. You can also call up your representative at any time and make a difference. I've done it. Of course it's how it works - people choose the government, and through that government, get to set policy. It's usually subjective. There is very rarely a simple best. That's more opinion than anything. There are hearings, consultations, and surveys all the time. You can also call up your representative at any time and make a difference. I've done it. Really, how many polices have you made? Or started, or been invited to speak on...How's that working out for native population.... There is always a best, hence why we base our choices on facts, tests, and competitions. SO all it takes is to phone my MP tell him , I think my taxes are to high and poof....that easy....I get lower taxes, I mean how many other Canadians would not jump on that band wagon..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) Really, how many polices have you made? Or started, or been invited to speak on...How's that working out for native population.... How's that working out for them? Did you see the last budget? There is always a best, hence why we base our choices on facts, tests, and competitions. When it comes to policy positions, there isn't always a best. There is simply will and desire. SO all it takes is to phone my MP tell him , I think my taxes are to high and poof....that easy....I get lower taxes, I mean how many other Canadians would not jump on that band wagon..... Enough of us voiced our decent on the first internet security bill (many people phoned their MPs, including me). It disappeared. Edited July 6, 2016 by Smallc Quote
Army Guy Posted July 6, 2016 Author Report Posted July 6, 2016 I get it native Canadians did fair on the last budget, but with bils of dollars worth of land claims, it is peanuts really....and these land claims are how old now....Maybe nobody is listening....Maybe it is a little more complicated than you portray it to be.... How many Canadians have voiced their concern with our health care system, and yet nothing is really being done...I also get it is a provincial thing, That being said those guide lines are written at the federal level....or we would not need a federal Health minister....There are tones of topics that have a majority of support and nothing or very little is being done.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
?Impact Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) It is the government that is expected to take that council and make the "right" choice. be it popular or not with the people The "right" choice is not to be a bottomless money pit purchasing the latest and greatest iPhone for the military. I agree too many large purchase decisions become political footballs and that needs to change; no more photos in mockups of F-35s. The government needs to commit to long term spending plan, and the military needs to stick to that plan. No whining that they want bigger and better toys, and will daddy please open the wallet. The military should be able to say that the mission the government sets is not possible given the funding, and then it is up to the government to decide if they can find more money or scale back or forgo the mission. Canadian content rules are a completely different issue, or are you suggesting we disband the Canadian Forces and outsource to the Americans (or Chinese)? What is good for the goose, is good for the gander. If you want manufactured offshore, then why do you expect to be employed? Edited July 6, 2016 by ?Impact Quote
Smallc Posted July 6, 2016 Report Posted July 6, 2016 I get it native Canadians did fair on the last budget, but with bils of dollars worth of land claims, it is peanuts really....and these land claims are how old now....Maybe nobody is listening....Maybe it is a little more complicated than you portray it to be.... Did you know that the last government settled more land claims than any in history? And since when is clean water not a big deal? How many Canadians have voiced their concern with our health care system, and yet nothing is really being done Literally half of the provincial budgets go to health - it's obviously a big deal, even if people haven't been able to fix it (it's not as simple as you're making out. ...or we would not need a federal Health minister... I suggest you learn what the federal health minister actually does. .There are tones of topics that have a majority of support and nothing or very little is being done.... Like? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 7, 2016 Report Posted July 7, 2016 This guy makes jokes about Canada's military capabilities, because it is true...may as well laugh about it: First, the Conservatives bemoaned the Liberal "decade of darkness." Then, the Liberals bemoaned the Conservative one. So they're both really good at moaning about the sad state of Canada's armed forces. ...To grasp how ignominious that is, consider what it really means: the navy can sail out to sea but can't sail back — not without help from its allies. ...And jet fighters? Of course, that's the zombie debate: it just won't die. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/defence-procurement-jets-ships-1.3667326 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted July 7, 2016 Report Posted July 7, 2016 I found the other 22,000 people missing from the CF numbers: Canadian Army:22,800 RCN:8,500 RCAF:14,500 Other Commands: 22,200 Total: 68,000 Australian Army: 28,568 RAN:14,215 RAAF:14,120 Total: 56,903 If we had fewer people, we could do more with the money that we have. Quote
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