?Impact Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) You haven't demonstrated that it would require a 2% increase in income tax across the board, nor does your insistence allow for those who feel we should be spending more on the military and less on the arts, for example. Ok, so what spending increase are you willing to make? Yes, you feel how the country should be run. Well then, put together a platform and see if you get support. That is the problem, nobody is willing to pay for what they want, they just want others to pay for their pet projects. Edited July 4, 2016 by ?Impact Quote
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 Self interest is an enduring human quality - not proof that people don't care about Canada. Poll after poll speaks to Canadian's love of their country. Attend any national event, and you can see it. Just because we don't see any pressing reason to fund the military beyond the $20B we do, it doesn't mean that we don't care. I would argue that you're wrong - people's lives are the big issues. LGBT issues are big issues. Women's issues are big issues. Race issues are big issues. In the lives of Canadians, issues of war are trivial. Self interest is an enduring quality, Sure it is, but it also needs to be balanced with what is best for the majority....or other concerns such as safety, economy, health and welfare, etc etc....If there is no balance, then I want min wage to be raised to a million dollars an hour, you get the point. And to maintain that balance it is our governments responsabilty to maintain that, popular or not....its called leadership....which we have not had in some time... Yes answering a poll is just words on a paper, Yes I love my country....does the poll ask how much, what would you sacraifice for it, how far would you support government if they raised taxes, suddenly changed laws etc etc....It is one of those questions that a majority of Canadians would answer without thinking.....like do you love your children....answewring NO would bring about more questions, which no body wants.... Yes they are big issues, but then again our safety is also a huge issue, not just DND but the rest of the security apparatus within Canada which is really under funded, under manned, and incapable of doing the job assigned to them effectively....but why ? because to the average Canadian it does not effect them on a person level, so the give a fuc* factor is not there, IT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS TO BE FORGOTTEN or go un addressed...... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 Most Canadians do. They don't see anything as threatening their security. Historically, they're not too far off. What you meant to say is most Canadians do not know what are the threats to our national security are ? Most Canadians do not care to educate themselves on these threats...Ignorance is bliss they say... Historical they've been wrong at every level.....lets take a look at the start of WWI look at troop levels, for the Army. Navy, and Air force go ahead try it... now tell me those numbers were able to protect our nation and train follow up forces....How could the couple hundred army pers possibly train or lead the hundreds of thousands of citizens to fight DO the same for WWII, Korea, do you see a pattern forming....Our nation cashed in on the peace bonds, politicians would say "what possible threats do we face they asked"....and yet how many Canadians perished after they received a few weeks training by someone reading it out of a book then were sent to the front to do some on the job training....either you were a fast learner or you died.....That statement holds no meaning unless you have something invested in it, like your life or sons, daughters lives....then it means something.... Like I have said before it is easy to bury them than to spend money on equipment..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 What you meant to say is most Canadians do not know what are the threats to our national security are ? Name them Quote
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) Self interest is an enduring quality, Sure it is, but it also needs to be balanced with what is best for the majority It's quite arguable that the majority needs things that have nothing to do with the military. ....or other concerns such as safety, economy, health and welfare, etc etc....If there is no balance, then I want min wage to be raised to a million dollars an hour, you get the point. And to maintain that balance it is our governments responsabilty to maintain that, popular or not....its called leadership....which we have not had in some time... This country has endured as one of the most successful in the world. Your opinion seems lacking. Yes answering a poll is just words on a paper, And in response to those words, you have only your own misplaced feelings. Yes I love my country....does the poll ask how much, Some do. what would you sacraifice for it, how far would you support government if they raised taxes, suddenly changed laws etc etc....It is one of those questions that a majority of Canadians would answer without thinking.....like do you love your children....answewring NO would bring about more questions, which no body wants.... Of course, that comes back to self interest as part of human nature. Yes they are big issues, but then again our safety is also a huge issue, I feel pretty safe. statistics back me up on that. not just DND but the rest of the security apparatus within Canada which is really under funded, under manned, and incapable of doing the job assigned to them effectively....but why ? because to the average Canadian it does not effect them on a person level, so the give a fuc* factor is not there, IT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS TO BE FORGOTTEN or go un addressed...... I'm not in favour of spending money on non existent problems. Edited July 4, 2016 by Smallc Quote
Argus Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Ok, so what spending increase are you willing to make? Yes, you feel how the country should be run. Well then, put together a platform and see if you get support. That is the problem, nobody is willing to pay for what they want, they just want others to pay for their pet projects. Here's the difference. I'm willing to pay more, and yet a better military in no way, shape or form will personally help me. Too many people vote for parties that offer them big tax cuts, or money for roads and bridges and subways they can use, or better pogey for them or more comfortable pensions for them, or who will make it easier for their relatives to immigrate here, or because they'll be allowed to smoke pot legally. People vote out of selfish self-interest without regard to what is best for the country. My desire for a better equipped military is not such a case. And yes, i would be willing to pay more in taxes for it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Name them Russia, for one. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 Name them No, Smallc you name them, and i'll add to your list..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 Ok, so we want to spend more on the military. Of those with their hands up, will you agree to a 2% increase in income tax across the board (personal and business) and use that to fund the military? If not, then go home and never again complain. Sorry that is not how it works, are we going to get tax raises over the 30 bil that this government has announced it will spend....Our security apparatus is the governments responsibility to maintain to a reasonable level....And if that takes more funding then so be it....If that was the case this country would not be running a deficit.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 What Smallc was saying is that we don't NEED to spend more because our absolute spending puts our military capabilities in line with similar sized nations. What a crock of shit....explain similar sized nations.....certainly your not talking about land mass are you, or is it population wise, nope....you've already written off GDP numbers.....so what do you mean.....because it does not matter what one you use we are not in the top 10, or 20 for that matter...... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Wilber Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 I'm not in favour of spending money on non existent problems. Glad you have a crystal ball that works, do you not buy insurance either? A capable military isn't a thing, it is insurance and you can't get it after you need it. It has the added advantage of helping deter any need for it in the first place. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 "At some point you'll need to recognize that there is neither a people's will, a political will or a fiscal reality that will align with your (and others want) to get all the toys you dream over. Given those wills and fiscal reality, why not set-out the D2.0 top 5 for Canadian role/want/need... inclusive of domestic and international forays - within domestic don't forget to factor Search & Rescue, Coast Guard, Border Security, Surveillance/reconnaissance, etc.." . thanks for the answer; however, I'll ask for a re-do... one in which you shelve your dreams/wants/aspirations for Canada's "force projection" upon..... upon... who/what? Drop that "force projection" nonsense ("influential blue-water navy", oh my!), get a grasp on fiscal realities... and try again! Focus on domestic, sure you can! . Fiscal realities my ass, why is it every new government makes promises to all Canadians every 4 to 5 years and some how pulls the funding out of thin air....What your implying is there is NO room any where to carve more dollars out of the budget.....where did the liberal cabinet grab 30 bil dollars from....where did Harper clowns grab there bils from...... IF and that is a big IF fiscal restraints were on, how much is this liberal government putting away to degrade our debt this term....OK how much next term ? Why is there no balanced budgets ? Fiscal restraint my ass....and your ass..... Which leaves the real reason.....NO peoples will, and No political will.....Now if we could get 4 more National hockey league teams into Canada there would be lots of will...... The fact remains there is no will at all to do anything in regards to our national security apparatus.....which reinforces the entire premise that our elected officials are no more than puppets who pander to what is popular, and will not make those tough choices to what is in the best interest of the country.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
cybercoma Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 What a crock of shit....explain similar sized nations.....certainly your not talking about land mass are you, or is it population wise, nope....you've already written off GDP numbers.....so what do you mean.....because it does not matter what one you use we are not in the top 10, or 20 for that matter...... What did he say we are? I'm not going to verify the numbers but his claim was that we're like 10th or 13th overall for absolute spending. How much more money do you want? Quote
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Russia, for one. Are you willing to spend $100B per year? Quote
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 No, Smallc you name them, and i'll add to your list..... There are no credible military threats to Canada. Quote
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) What did he say we are? I'm not going to verify the numbers but his claim was that we're like 10th or 13th overall for absolute spending. How much more money do you want? We just dropped out of the top 15 three years ago. We're somewhere in the top 20, I'd think. Edited July 4, 2016 by Smallc Quote
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Glad you have a crystal ball that works, do you not buy insurance either? Actually, I don't have house insurance. This house has to many not to code issues for me to ever think I'd get a payout. Still, I'm far more worried about my house burning down than any credible threat to Canada. Quote
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 What did he say we are? I'm not going to verify the numbers but his claim was that we're like 10th or 13th overall for absolute spending. How much more money do you want? Well I guess that would depend on what source your using.....mine rates Canada in overall military spending ranking in at 124, while if ranked by GDP % a whooping 1 % ranks us at 15 th....But hey we were beat out by some pretty stiff compition like Brazil, Indonesia, Spain, Taiwan, Greece, Colombia, you know all the big countries....with very high GDP numbers, I mean Greece really ..... http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 There are no credible military threats to Canada. Well I guess all those security apparatus depts web sites must be just trying to scare people like me and you, because they seem to be able to fill dozens of threats and even more risks.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Posted July 4, 2016 Are you willing to spend $100B per year? Russia spends 85 bil a year on military expenditures..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Wilber Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Actually, I don't have house insurance. This house has to many not to code issues for me to ever think I'd get a payout. Still, I'm far more worried about my house burning down than any credible threat to Canada. So your house isn't worth insuring and neither is your country. Nothing here that anyone else might want. No life insurance when your family was growing up? You only have car insurance because the government makes you? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Well I guess that would depend on what source your using.....mine rates Canada in overall military spending ranking in at 124, while if ranked by GDP % a whooping 1 % ranks us at 15 th....But hey we were beat out by some pretty stiff compition like Brazil, Indonesia, Spain, Taiwan, Greece, Colombia, you know all the big countries....with very high GDP numbers, I mean Greece really ..... http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm Those are 2007 numbers. We now spend $20B per year, and are above both Greece and Spain. On the other hand, if you'd rather live in either of those countries because of their messed up priorities (even though they have real credible threats, unlike us) go ahead. Quote
?Impact Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Well I guess that would depend on what source your using.....mine rates Canada in overall military spending ranking in at 124, while if ranked by GDP % a whooping 1 % ranks us at 15 th. Not quite sure what your statement above means. I looked at your source, and it shows that we rank as 15th in terms of 2011 GDP, 20th in terms of absolute 2007 military spending, and since that 2007 spending was 1.1% of our 2011 GDP then we are 127th in terms of spending as a percent of GDP (sort of). Quote
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 Well I guess all those security apparatus depts web sites must be just trying to scare people like me and you, because they seem to be able to fill dozens of threats and even more risks.... There are no credible threats to Canada. Show me some. Quote
Smallc Posted July 4, 2016 Report Posted July 4, 2016 So your house isn't worth insuring and neither is your country. Nothing here that anyone else might want. I already said that I can't ensure this old house and ever hope to get paid. Show me a credible threat. No life insurance when your family was growing up? You only have car insurance because the government makes you? I have life insurance, and insurance on my business (even though I believe insurance is a scam in general. Quote
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