A cashless society.

taxme · April 6, 2016

Are you pro or against a cashless society? I know i am. It scares me, and I will tell you why? It means that anything I buy or sell will all be recorded by the banks, and the government will know as to what I am spending my digital money on. No one will be able to hide their transactions anymore.

I will lose that freedom of being able to do business with cash without anybody knowing about it, especially the government. Of course the government will tell us that it will help fight money laundering and drug sales, and other associated crimes where money is passed back and forth without government knowing. It will be part of our freedom that we cannot afford to lose. I think that the next step the banks and governments will be pushing for is to have a chip placed in one of our fingers or forehead. No chip in finger, no buy or sell. Total communist control over the people.

I believe that the Bible called it "the mark of the beast". No one will be able to buy or sell. Just how is this prophesy in the Bible now coming true today? How was God suppose to know this would happen thousands of years before it's time?

What say you? Do you want the government knowing all that you do when it comes to your buying or selling, uhmm?

Derek 2.0 · April 6, 2016

I wouldn't so much worry about the Government knowing what you're purchasing, but the doubling down by central banks on quantitative easing......in a cashless society, "your money" is either "in a bank" or "in the market", you will never physically hold it........then the difference between a rich man, beggar man or thief is what the Government and bank tells you it is........

If the prospect of the beast concerns you, I might suggest stocking up on physical "wealth" in the form of precious metals......namely Gold, primed brass and tin-foil

msj · April 6, 2016

I take extreme pleasure in paying for meals with a credit card.

That way there is a paper trail of the tip so when the CRA go into the restaurant to do an audit, which inevitably leads to auditing the staff and their tips, it gets taxed.

Otherwise, I keep cash around for emergencies but rarely more than a few hundred bucks.

I also keep at least 80' of tinfoil in the cupboard but I save it for the BBQ.

Big Guy · April 6, 2016

I have never had my identity stolen, have never lost or had an improper deduction from my credit card, have never lost an item that I ordered online. Have never had a Paypal problem or a problem with any other on-line shopping software. My bride has no problems balancing our finances at the end of every month.

The secret is that I do not own a credit card and never order anything online or perform any financial transaction online.

BTW - I also do not own a cell phone.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Big Guy

msj · April 6, 2016

I've had my credit card hacked twice.

Have never lost any money from it.

One time I notice $800 going through from Victoria's Secret, and after confirming with my wife that she was not binging on lingerie, called Visa and put a stop to it. They reversed the charges etc etc. I was disappointed.

The other time was last week: couldn't use my card because somebody in a Safeway in Sacremento was using it. Nothing was charged to my card.

I pay for everything with my one credit card, always pay it off each month, and save several thousands of dollars each year when I travel and use the points from it.

The only reason I keep a few hundred bucks around is for the two times in 20+ years that my card has been compromised.

cybercoma · April 6, 2016

I've had my bank contact me about attempts at unauthorized use on my card a couple times. They blocked them before the charges even appeared, cancelled my card and sent me a new one. They're really on top of things. Needless to say, I'm actually pretty happy with my bank.

BC_chick · April 6, 2016

I will lose that freedom of being able to do business with cash without anybody knowing about it, especially the government. Of course the government will tell us that it will help fight money laundering and drug sales, and other associated crimes where money is passed back and forth without government knowing. It will be part of our freedom that we cannot afford to lose. I think that the next step the banks and governments will be pushing for is to have a chip placed in one of our fingers or forehead. No chip in finger, no buy or sell. Total communist control over the people.

So you want to continue giving crime and terrorism a means just so you can do 'business without anyone knowing about it'? I'm guessing you are either into business activities that are illegal or you have a hanker for things your wife might object to.

If it's the former, too bad, you're part of the problem and if it's the latter, the various forms of 'vendors' will find ways to get around it. The industry is not going to falter but it's one step forward in legitimizing it which is very good.

I believe that the Bible called it "the mark of the beast". No one will be able to buy or sell. Just how is this prophesy in the Bible now coming true today? How was God suppose to know this would happen thousands of years before it's time?

Awesome. Think of all the people going to heaven if our cashless society takes its toll on crime.

Edited April 6, 2016 by BC_chick

BC_chick · April 6, 2016

I have never had my identity stolen, have never lost or had an improper deduction from my credit card, have never lost an item that I ordered online. Have never had a Paypal problem or a problem with any other on-line shopping software. My bride has no problems balancing our finances at the end of every month.

The secret is that I do not own a credit card and never order anything online or perform any financial transaction online.

BTW - I also do not own a cell phone.

I had my identity stolen 20 years ago. I'm guessing it was a resume I sent to some unknown fax number with my SIN number on it - the way we used to formally write resumes back then. Every era has its own issues but we learn from them and keep ourselves safe.

I never carry cash. I pay for everything by credit-card and I pay it off at month-end. I reconcile my credit-cards pretty much every week. I like to know where and how I spend my money and cash is awful for that.

Edited April 6, 2016 by BC_chick

Argus · April 6, 2016

Are you pro or against a cashless society? I know i am. It scares me, and I will tell you why? It means that anything I buy or sell will all be recorded by the banks, and the government will know as to what I am spending my digital money on. No one will be able to hide their transactions anymore.

Why would you think the government or anyone else cares what you buy at the grocery store?

I will lose that freedom of being able to do business with cash without anybody knowing about it,

Unless you're paying for hookers or drugs, I don't see the issue.

What say you? Do you want the government knowing all that you do when it comes to your buying or selling, uhmm?

The government is lucky if it knows what THEY are buying and selling. There's no way in hell they can keep track of what everyone else is buying and selling.

Argus · April 6, 2016

If I'm paying for something under $40 I pay cash. I always keep a hundred or so on me. If it's over $40 I use my debit card. I only use my credit card for on-line purchases, though sometimes I use paypal. I don't have a problem with electronic purchases, but not taking out my card every time I need to buy a drink is probably why I've never had a problem with anyone stealing my data. So far, at least.

dre · April 6, 2016

So you want to continue giving crime and terrorism a means just so you can do 'business without anyone knowing about it'? I'm guessing you are either into business activities that are illegal or you have a hanker for things your wife might object to.

This is a rather flimsy argument. Not all people that value privacy are engaged in criminal conspiracies or even behaviors that they want to hide.

Furthermore... electronic financing doesn't hurt criminals and terrorists... it helps them. Vast sums of money can be instantaneously transmitted from one numbered account to another, and the various components of the financial system have always shown a willingness to enable nefarious activity. They have provided aid and assistance to virtually every class of bad actor, from Nazi Germany, to terrorists, to drug lords and drug cartels. They have been caught rigging the game, they have crashed national economies.

You can make good arguments for paperless transactions in terms of utility, convenience, cost etc. But there's no good reason to not keep cash around as well.

dre · April 6, 2016

Why would you think the government or anyone else cares what you buy at the grocery store?

Who cares about what the answer to this question is. They probably don't care what you do in your own home or bedroom either but that's no reason to accept surveillance there.

Anonymity is a central component of individual freedom. You should be able to do what you want to do without other people knowing about it if that's what you personally choose to do.

BC_chick · April 6, 2016

This is a rather flimsy argument. Not all people that value privacy are engaged in criminal conspiracies or even behaviors that they want to hide.

Did you read his exact words to which I responded? Perhaps for you it's a privacy issue, but the wording of his sentence explicitly implied what I interpreted.

Furthermore... electronic financing doesn't hurt criminals and terrorists... it helps them. Vast sums of money can be instantaneously transmitted from one numbered account to another, and the various components of the financial system have always shown a willingness to enable nefarious activity. They have provided aid and assistance to virtually every class of bad actor, from Nazi Germany, to terrorists, to drug lords and drug cartels. They have been caught rigging the game, they have crashed national economies.

When there is a paper trail, prosecution is much easier.

GostHacked · April 6, 2016

For all intents and purposes, we are already living in a cashless society. And the way to continue to use cash in a digital sense is via crypto currencies like Bitcoin.

Edited April 6, 2016 by GostHacked

Derek 2.0 · April 6, 2016

This is a rather flimsy argument. Not all people that value privacy are engaged in criminal conspiracies or even behaviors that they want to hide.

Exactly, nor is it just an issue of privacy.......for the majority of the World's population, its a mater of feasibility.....In countries like China and India, the majority of the population don't have bank accounts, let alone credit cards and smart phones with Apple pay.........ergo, the Chinese aren't going to dump paper money, and if the Chinese aren't, domestic politics aside (see civil unrest) the Americans aren't, since they would destroy their own dollar's value as people (and countries) around the world dump the greenback for the Yuan, the now dominant paper currency.........

Furthermore... electronic financing doesn't hurt criminals and terrorists... it helps them.

Exactly, replace street muggers with computer hackers etc......

dre · April 6, 2016

Exactly, nor is it just an issue of privacy.......for the majority of the World's population, its a mater of feasibility.....In countries like China and India, the majority of the population don't have bank accounts, let alone credit cards and smart phones with Apple pay.........ergo, the Chinese aren't going to dump paper money, and if the Chinese aren't, domestic politics aside (see civil unrest) the Americans aren't, since they would destroy their own dollar's value as people (and countries) around the world dump the greenback for the Yuan, the now dominant paper currency.........

Yup. There's also the issue of economic continuity and economic crisis management. In a severe economic crisis governments will shut the banking system down and put a freeze on withdrawals. We saw this in Agentina for example... with the banking system shut down society had to fall back on cash transactions, precious metals, and barter networks in order for people to keep trading their labor for goods (they will die if they cant do that.. kind of a bummer)

Derek 2.0 · April 6, 2016

Yup. There's also the issue of economic continuity and economic crisis management. In a severe economic crisis governments will shut the banking system down and put a freeze on withdrawals. We saw this in Agentina for example... with the banking system shut down society had to fall back on cash transactions, precious metals, and barter networks in order for people to keep trading their labor for goods (they will die if they cant do that.. kind of a bummer)

And not only crisis management (how bad would Greece have been if they could have just printed more of their own currency during their financial crisis?) but normal fiscal policies, one of the Nordic countries (IIRC either Sweden or Denmark) that is inching towards a cashless society, has negative interest rates, meaning if you deposit money into your bank account you pay a fee.......this encourages people to spend their own money or loose it, the only current curb on this is cash and the ability to stuff some under the mattress or in a pickle jar in the backyard.

dre · April 6, 2016

When there is a paper trail, prosecution is much easier.

Problem is, there wont necessarily be one. Black market participants are not going to use a currency that allows their illegal transactions to be tracked.

The desire for private transactions is widespread and the markets will accommodate them. The banks could sell products to provide this service similar to how telecom companies sell prepaid cards in department stores, gas stations, etc. These electronic cash cards could then be traded and eventually re-deposited.

Or even worse for the government - alternative currencies will emerge that they have even less control over than the cash they mint now.

taxme · April 6, 2016

So you want to continue giving crime and terrorism a means just so you can do 'business without anyone knowing about it'? I'm guessing you are either into business activities that are illegal or you have a hanker for things your wife might object to.

If it's the former, too bad, you're part of the problem and if it's the latter, the various forms of 'vendors' will find ways to get around it. The industry is not going to falter but it's one step forward in legitimizing it which is very good.

Awesome. Think of all the people going to heaven if our cashless society takes its toll on crime.

I have nothing to hide. I just don't want to be followed around by big brother government. Whether I use the money for a "hooker" or use it to buy bread, it is nobody's damn business, governments or yours. Maybe you don't value freedom but I do. You obviously don't understand anything about privacy and freedom. I guess what the NSA has been caught doing is quite alright with you, uhmm?

taxme · April 6, 2016

Why would you think the government or anyone else cares what you buy at the grocery store?

Unless you're paying for hookers or drugs, I don't see the issue.

The government is lucky if it knows what THEY are buying and selling. There's no way in hell they can keep track of what everyone else is buying and selling.

(1)Because the government then would be able to build up a profile on people just from what they buy if they so chose too. A cashless society would be the one way to do that. They could make a mountain out of a mole hill.

(2)I guess what the NSA or what some of our own Canadian police forces would like to do, is ok with you, eh?

(3)In a cashless/digital society the government can sure as hell be able to keep track of everything they are doing with their digital currency, like they can do today.

I have nothing against digital money being used to buy whatever, but I also want to keep cash around to be able to buy and sell anything where I can do a transaction without the government knowing about it. It's called trying to keep some privacy and freedom from big brother government knowing what I am doing all the time. Something you obviously don't value or care about.

For example, suppose I want to have a garage sale for instance. If no cash can be used, how do I get paid? A good question, uhmm?

GostHacked · April 6, 2016

So you want to continue giving crime and terrorism a means just so you can do 'business without anyone knowing about it'? I'm guessing you are either into business activities that are illegal or you have a hanker for things your wife might object to.

If it's the former, too bad, you're part of the problem and if it's the latter, the various forms of 'vendors' will find ways to get around it. The industry is not going to falter but it's one step forward in legitimizing it which is very good.

Awesome. Think of all the people going to heaven if our cashless society takes its toll on crime.

RIght and in light of the Panama Papers where these people are hiding money and not paying taxes, this notion of being part of the problem does not put wind into any sails. I still use cash when I can. It is still legal tender, so until they kill it I will use it.

And with another bit of legalizing weed, which brings it out of the criminal element, then again the notion of being part of the problem falls short.

bush_cheney2004 · April 6, 2016

....For example, suppose I want to have a garage sale for instance. If no cash can be used, how do I get paid? A good question, uhmm?

PayPal...of course...on a smart phone.

taxme · April 6, 2016

PayPal...of course...on a smart phone.

And what if I don't use PayPal? What then? Then how do I get my money? Anyway, I want cash for what I am selling. PayPal can leave a paper trail which can be tracked down by the government, if they want it bad enough. Maybe track me down to pay taxes on all my sales. Hey, you never know.

bush_cheney2004 · April 6, 2016

And what if I don't use PayPal? What then? Then how do I get my money? Anyway, I want cash for what I am selling. PayPal can leave a paper trail which can be tracked down by the government, if they want it bad enough. Maybe track me down to pay taxes on all my sales. Hey, you never know.

But it's not all about you...maybe you lose some garage sale customers because they don't carry cash. Most of the Canadian money supply is not cash and coin anymore...hasn't been for a long time.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m0

taxme · April 6, 2016

But it's not all about you...maybe you lose some garage sale customers because they don't carry cash. Most of the Canadian money supply is not cash and coin anymore...hasn't been for a long time.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m0

Well, I could say also that it is not all about you either. So, why should I lose some garage sales just because you believe that a cashless society will be just great, and better for all of us? I just cannot get those who do not see the threat of a cashless society? I guess their freedom and privacy means nothing to them. And geez thanks for pointing the fact out that cash isn't being used for that many transactions anymore these days. I learn something new every day.