Topaz Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 TransCanada is suing the US under the NAFTA for 15 billion for cost not building the pipeline. Will this go any were, who knows. http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/01/06/transcanada-launches-double-barrelled-legal-salvo-over-keystone-xl-rejection Quote
TimG Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 The NAFTA panels were set up to prevent this kind of politically motivated discrimination against businesses in partner countries. This is a clear cut case of unjustified political prejudice given the fact that the US has no problems allowing numerous pipelines built to move US oil and gas reserves. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 This was a political move for sure, and TransCanada lost. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
overthere Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Maybe BC Hydro should rethink their plans to build more dams on the Peace River. They're getting peanuts for the power they sell -from the Peace and Columbia rivers- to to the Western US. That could be sold for more elsewhere. Unplug? Nothing personal, just politics Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
The_Squid Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 NAFTA was never set up so that a country has to rubber stamp every proposed project. Quote
TimG Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) NAFTA was never set up so that a country has to rubber stamp every proposed project.The principal is equal treatment and due process. TransCanada will argue that builders of pipelines to move US oil and gas reserves were not blocked for such spurious political reasons. They will also argue that politics unnecessarily prolonged the process and they are entitled for compensation for those delays. Both arguments have merit and are consistent with the spirit of the free trade deals. Edited January 7, 2016 by TimG Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 NAFTA considerations were already priced in....the U.S. has never lost a Chapter 11 case to Canada according to Canadian media. U.S. lawyers will note that TransCanada can't even get approval to build new east-west dilbit pipelines in...Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Thankfully the arguments seem to calling into question the wisdom of other trade deals that contain the same mechanism by which investors and corporations can sue a government. Even this gang is finally getting a clue and asking wtf? ...a growing cadre of libertarians criticized the mechanism for its distortion of the free market. Some Tea Party conservatives, meanwhile, see ISDS as a tool for corporate cronyism. http://time.com/4170966/keystone-pipeline-canada-lawsuit/ Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 They can sue all they want...doesn't mean they are going to win. TransCanada wouldn't be building squat without American oil money anyway. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Hopefully they win huge and cause an outraged reaction. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Hopefully they win huge and cause an outraged reaction. I hope so too, because even when Canada thinks it has won, it still loses (e.g. softwood lumber). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
overthere Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 time to turn off the electricity. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 time to turn off the electricity. Talk is cheap....abrograte NAFTA just to teach the big bad USA a lesson. Send all those invested American billion$ back to 'murica. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
overthere Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Talk is cheap....abrograte NAFTA just to teach the big bad USA a lesson. Send all those invested American billion$ back to 'murica.When is a contract not a contract? When an American signs it. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
ReeferMadness Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Hopefully they win huge and cause an outraged reaction. Winning by outraging all of the disengaged, no-nothings will be a hollow victory. If you really want to win, you need to do it in a way that educates people. I don't know how you get there from here. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) When is a contract not a contract? When an American signs it. When is an oil project financed in Canada ? When foreigners provide the capital. Edited January 7, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Winning by outraging all of the disengaged, no-nothings will be a hollow victory. If you really want to win, you need to do it in a way that educates people. I don't know how you get there from here.One painful step at a time. The path to enlightenment is what it is. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
TimG Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) NAFTA considerations were already priced in....the U.S. has never lost a Chapter 11 case to Canada according to Canadian media.Canadian media is filled with idiots: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/canada-scores-big-nafta-wins In two-thirds of the trade cases Canada has appealed to a NAFTA panel, Canada has either won outright or achieved a reduction of US duties. Mexico has done about as well. Thats not the only good news from Canadas and Mexicos perspective. Since NAFTA, the number of US trade actions leveled at its North American partners has declined relative to the number of actions aimed at Europe. More importantly, their is a precedent with the Ethyl Corporation where Canada has to pay costs incurred because of bureaucratic ineptitudes related to environmental regulations: http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/topics-domaines/disp-diff/ethyl.aspx?lang=eng Edited January 7, 2016 by TimG Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Canadian media is filled with idiots: Maybe, but the idiot media reports that the United States has never lost an investor-based, Chapter 11 case. Canada is the most sued nation out of the three NAFTA partners...including Ethyl Corp's win: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/14/canada-sued-investor-state-dispute-ccpa_n_6471460.html Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
TimG Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Maybe, but the idiot media reports that the United States has never lost an investor-based, Chapter 11 case.Maybe that is the distinction. The Canadian government has launched many actions under NAFTA and won. According the G&M the NAFTA panel lets the US pick 2 out three arbitrators which is grossly unfair. I did not realize that this provision was in place. No wonder the investor cases have fared so poorly. It was a major error on the part of Canadian and Mexican negotiators. Edited January 7, 2016 by TimG Quote
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