The White Man's Fear

[Argus]

By silencing white men, Canada can’t have an honest debate about equality, race and culture

The noteworthy aspect of that headline is that anyone would dare write it in a mainstream newspaper. Of course, it wasn't a white man who dared to write it, because in Canada, white men aren't allowed to express their opinion on racial or cultural issues (except for unquestioned admiration for multiculturalism and diversity) without being castigated as racists and bigots - as we have repeatedly seen on this site.

I agree with much of what Dosanjh says, especially with regard to Canada having and needing to have a 'mainstream' and the need for newcomers to adapt and integrate into Canada. I also agree that Trudeau's fatuous denial that there was any mainstream or core identity in Canada was mindless political correctness that makes no sense whatever.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/ujjal-dosanjh-by-silencing-white-men-canada-cant-have-an-honest-debate-about-equality-race-and-culture

This fear has habituated many Western leaders in their frailty to speak the unvarnished truth about the need for the refugees and immigrants welcomed into these societies to fully integrate in them. It is not about changing one’s religion or bleaching one’s skin to make it paler. It is about learning the moral, ethical, social and political anchors that, in this case, Canada is rooted in.

[On Guard for Thee]

So I take it then that you do admit the part about Canada's Shame, and that if we have over reacted that it was perhaps inevitable. As an old sailor I know that sometimes it takes a while for a ship to right itself.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Charles Anthony
excessive quoting; [OP]

[overthere]

the need for the refugees and immigrants welcomed into these societies to fully integrate in them.

Ah no. It is advantageous to the immigrants to integrate to the extent they speak an official language, learn to cope with bureaucracy, and function at a high level socially. But there is no necessity. It is entirely possible to survive without any of those things and a fair number do just that. And that is what Canada is really about: you have that choice- you can suck it all up like a sponge or not. When I welcome a guest to my house, I require that he or she respect the rules of my home, but I have no need that they become like me.

This is what I see as required of both new and old Canadians: 1) obey the law 2. pay taxes. That's it. All the rest is up to you, make of it what you wish. Freedom baby!

[Big Guy]

... As an old sailor I know that sometimes it takes a while for a ship to right itself.

Yet another thread to try to rationalize racism, bigotry and xenophobia. It is not against the law to hold racist or bigoted or xenophobic views. Many can rationalize those views as being nationalistic or patriotic. View other races, religions, etc. as inferior to yours puts you into that category. The fact that you believe that your race or colour or gender is superior to others does not make it a palatable view by most people.

I keep reading here where self appointed "Islam Experts" try to explain why Islam is a violent and dangerous and bad religion that will lead those Muslims to come here and kill us all. No one is convincing anybody of anything.

Enough already.

You do not like what Islam stands for and what Muslims preach then have the courage to suggest what you would do about it.

I do not think anybody has solutions because there is no problem. This is just another opportunity to slag another group that "is not like you". The Irish were the recipients in the past and well as the Eastern Europeans (remember those DP's?) then the Portugese and the Vietnamese and now Muslims.

It was the same kind of racists and bigots and xenophobics who lamented the extinguishing of "Canadian values" on soap boxes who are now anonymous naysayers warning of a refugee Armageddon. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. The difference is that the Internet has provided millions of anonymous soap boxes for racists, bigots and xenophobes to spout their unfounded fears without the danger of taking responsibility for their racial rhetoric.

The sky is not falling.

Enough Already!

Edited January 4, 2016 by Big Guy

[On Guard for Thee]

Yet another thread to try to rationalize racism, bigotry and xenophobia. It is not against the law to hold racist or bigoted or xenophobic views. Many can rationalize those views as being nationalistic or patriotic. View other races, religions, etc. as inferior to yours puts you into that category. The fact that you believe that your race or colour or gender is superior to others does not make it a palatable view by most people.

I keep reading here where self appointed "Islam Experts" try to explain why Islam is a violent and dangerous and bad religion that will lead those Muslims to come here and kill us all. No one is convincing anybody of anything.

Enough already.

You do not like what Islam stands for and what Muslims preach then have the courage to suggest what you would do about it.

I do not think anybody has solutions because there is no problem. This is just another opportunity to slag another group that "is not like you". The Irish were the recipients in the past and well as the Eastern Europeans (remember those DP's?) then the Portugese and the Vietnamese and now Muslims.

It was the same kind of racists and bigots and xenophobics who lamented the extinguishing of "Canadian values" on soap boxes who are now anonymous naysayers warning of a refugee Armageddon. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. The difference is that the Internet has provided millions of anonymous soap boxes for racists, bigots and xenophobes to spout their unfounded fears without the danger of taking responsibility for their racial rhetoric.

The sky is not falling.

Enough Already!

Bigotry and xenophobia......t'was ever thus. And it won't change anytime soon I expect. This forum indicates such.

[WestCoastRunner]

The sky is not falling.

Enough Already!

Just another thread to regurgitate past posts.

[Argus]

So I take it then that you do admit the part about Canada's Shame, and that if we have over reacted that it was perhaps inevitable. As an old sailor I know that sometimes it takes a while for a ship to right itself.

I have no shame. That's on you. Judging the past cultural behaviour and thinking of our ancestors based on present day mores and our current level of sophistication is an exercise in narcissistic masochism. Do I think everything that was done w/r to racial, cultural or social issues in the past was correct? Of course not! But I'm not about to writhe in guilt because my ancestors weren't nice to people.

[Argus]

Ah no. It is advantageous to the immigrants to integrate to the extent they speak an official language, learn to cope with bureaucracy, and function at a high level socially. But there is no necessity.

Maybe not for them, given the size of some of the ethnic communities we've grown, but necessary for Canada in order to have social cohesion, unless you believe this country is little more than some sort of international hotel.

[Argus]

Yet another thread to try to rationalize racism, bigotry and xenophobia. It is not against the law to hold racist or bigoted or xenophobic views. Many can rationalize those views as being nationalistic or patriotic. View other races, religions, etc. as inferior to yours puts you into that category. The fact that you believe that your race or colour or gender is superior to others does not make it a palatable view by most people.

I keep reading here where self appointed "Islam Experts" try to explain why Islam is a violent and dangerous and bad religion that will lead those Muslims to come here and kill us all. No one is convincing anybody of anything.

Enough already.

You do not like what Islam stands for and what Muslims preach then have the courage to suggest what you would do about it.

I do not think anybody has solutions because there is no problem. This is just another opportunity to slag another group that "is not like you". The Irish were the recipients in the past and well as the Eastern Europeans (remember those DP's?) then the Portugese and the Vietnamese and now Muslims.

It was the same kind of racists and bigots and xenophobics who lamented the extinguishing of "Canadian values" on soap boxes who are now anonymous naysayers warning of a refugee Armageddon. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. The difference is that the Internet has provided millions of anonymous soap boxes for racists, bigots and xenophobes to spout their unfounded fears without the danger of taking responsibility for their racial rhetoric.

The sky is not falling.

Enough Already!

I'd like to leave every word up there as I marvel at how true to Dosanj's 'multicult' personality some people show themselves, the absolute perfect reflection of all he condemned in the style of raging, brainless political correctness. He was addressing just this attitude, and it's noteworthy that while regurgitating his usual hate of those who disagree with his political correctness, the poster above had not one single thing to say in addressing Dosanhj's article.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

Bigotry and xenophobia......t'was ever thus. And it won't change anytime soon I expect. This forum indicates such.

Politicians afraid of “ethnic backlashes” revel in silence policed by the so called multiculturalists who might be more appropriately called multicults — the practitioners of a fierce brand of exclusivist Multiculturalism that ought to be renamed Multicultism.

The perfect description of the politically correct and their hateful ignorance.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Argus

[On Guard for Thee]

I have no shame. That's on you. Judging the past cultural behaviour and thinking of our ancestors based on present day mores and our current level of sophistication is an exercise in narcissistic masochism. Do I think everything that was done w/r to racial, cultural or social issues in the past was correct? Of course not! But I'm not about to writhe in guilt because my ancestors weren't nice to people.

I'd be ashamed at trying to spout such a transparent attempt to pave over what happened during our ancestors reigns. Taking responsibility is neither narcissistic nor masochistic.

[eyeball]

I'll be impressed when someone like Uncle Pattison comes out and says that Canada can’t have an honest debate about economic justice, fairness and equal opportunity until it stops concentrating opportunity into the hands of people like himself.

In the meantime lets continue to distract ourselves with the belief that all our difficulties stem from race and culture instead of power and wealth.

Edited January 4, 2016 by eyeball

[Argus]

I'd be ashamed at trying to spout such a transparent attempt to pave over what happened during our ancestors reigns. Taking responsibility is neither narcissistic nor masochistic.

I merely take responsibility for my actions. I don't have the colossal arrogance to try and take responsibility for what my ancestors did.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Argus

[eyeball]

I merely take responsibility for my actions. I don't have the colossal arrogance to try and take responsibility for what my ancestors did.

No you just want to maintain the main thing your ancestors benefitted from, a disproportionate amount of power over people who were in their way.

[On Guard for Thee]

I merely take responsibility for my actions. I don't have the colossal arrogance to try and take responsibility for what my ancestors did.

You actually call that arrogance eh? I would call it something else, but it closely rhymes with your choice.

[WestCoastRunner]

I'll be impressed when someone like Uncle Pattison comes out and says that Canada cant have an honest debate about economic justice, fairness and equal opportunity until it stops concentrating opportunity into the hands of people like himself.

In the meantime lets continue to distract ourselves with the belief that all our difficulties stem from race and culture instead of power and wealth.

Have you see pattisons yacht! Sorry off topic.

[On Guard for Thee]

No you just want to maintain the main thing your ancestors benefitted from, a disproportionate amount of power over people who were in their way.

Status quo is good, as long as you are the one with the "status".

[overthere]

Maybe not for them, given the size of some of the ethnic communities we've grown, but necessary for Canada in order to have social cohesion, unless you believe this country is little more than some sort of international hotel.

We do not require anything more from people born here, why would we ask it of newcomers?. In reality, the vast majority recognize it is greatly to their economic advantage to integrate, but it is none of my business or yours for that matter.

[eyeball]

Have you see pattisons yacht! Sorry off topic.

Yes I have. You should see the size of his fishing fleet.

You're spot on topic AFAIC.

[overthere]

I merely take responsibility for my actions. I don't have the colossal arrogance to try and take responsibility for what my ancestors did.

You don't come across as being stupid or arrogant to me.

But you do not seem able to acknowledge the current situation of First Nations, and our collective responsibility to address it. It is not something my ancestors here did, it is an ongoing and completely unresolved situation/serious problem in the here and now.

[WestCoastRunner]

Yes I have. You should see the size of his fishing fleet.

You're spot on topic AFAIC.

What is his fishing fleet for? Commercial?

[Argus]

We do not require anything more from people born here, why would we ask it of newcomers?. In reality, the vast majority recognize it is greatly to their economic advantage to integrate, but it is none of my business or yours for that matter.

It is the business of anyone who has an interest in social cohesion and the successful development of the country, as opposed to seeing it fracturing along ethnic, religious and linguistic lines.

[Argus]

But you do not seem able to acknowledge the current situation of First Nations, and our collective responsibility to address it. It is not something my ancestors here did, it is an ongoing and completely unresolved situation/serious problem in the here and now.

Why should I do anything to address it when the natives' own chiefs have zero interest in doing so? The current collection of native governments have everything to gain from continuing the current farcical mess of dependency and nothing whatsoever to gain by changing it.

[overthere]

Why should I do anything to address it when the natives' own chiefs have zero interest in doing so? The current collection of native governments have everything to gain from continuing the current farcical mess of dependency and nothing whatsoever to gain by changing it.

Think of the children.

Actually you don't have to do anything except pay taxes and let others get on with it. And it will change, the current situation is intolerable.

Your credibility is greatly diminished when you state that all First Nations governments are the same. The quality of governance ranges from very competent to very poor- not unlike white man governance . . Maybe you could acquaint yourself with both types, not just insist incorrectly that there is only shit and that it will prevail indefinitely.

[Accountability Now]

Your credibility is greatly diminished when you state that all First Nations governments are the same. The quality of governance ranges from very competent to very poor- not unlike white man governance . . Maybe you could acquaint yourself with both types, not just insist incorrectly that there is only shit and that it will prevail indefinitely.

There are definitely some good First Nation groups most of which are in economically sound areas that allow for these communities to thrive. The issue comes up when you have a First Nation that constantly requires more than than what was outlined in the treaties and doesn't get it. For the most part these communities are in remote locations that any other group would have left if they did not get the "benefits" of living on a reserve. (Note....I put quotes around benefits to ensure you that I know there are more disadvantages than advantages to living on a reserve however there are some advantages that draw them to stay regardless of how bad the advantages are.

Ultimately, I see no end game on the First Nations issues until we are all part of the same society. No more us versus them. Perhaps this requires some sort of pay out or other financial assurances but the idea of of nation to nation is only half way solution when it needs to be all or none. I agree with Argus though, there are too many benefits for certain chiefs and friends of said chiefs for the Us versus Them to end.