Waiting for the Trudeau Jnr 40 billion deficit

[Argus]

Ridiculous hyperbole. There were numerous articles showing Canada is the most respected country in the world while Harper was pm.

Some people on the far left seem to feel their hate for Harper was shared by the rest of the world, for some reason.

[drummindiver]

Yes I realize that but I am saying is that a hair cut xost $20 and 5% of that is a single dollar but a car is $20,000 at least and 5% of that is $1000 a thousand times more. So lowering GST by 2% saved me only 40 cents but it saved the rich $400.

??

Most ppl need cars. People who are spending 20k on Toyota Corollas cannot afford the extra money. Your argument is invalid.

Raising the GST means some people cannot afford that car to get them to work to help support Liberal spending sprees.

[Big Guy]

Ridiculous hyperbole. There were numerous articles showing Canada is the most respected country in the world while Harper was pm.

Canada was never a target until Harper chose to change our involvement in Afghanistan into a shooting war and then followed the USA into their invasions in the Middle East. He is the one who put targets on our backs.

It may take a while to remove those targets.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Big Guy

[drummindiver]

Canada was never a target until Harper chose to change our involvement in Afghanistan into a shooting war and then followed the USA into their invasions in the Middle East. He is the one who put targets on our backs.

It may take a while to remove those targets.

So, now Harper is single handedly responsible for terrorist threats to Canada?

You realize how ridiculous that assertion is. right?

And what kind of war did you want him to be involved in? That is a nonsensical statement. Diplomacy by extremis involves shooting.

At least we didn't send the wrong colour uniforms to our soldiers under Harper, as we did under Chretien.

[Wilber]

Canada was never a target until Harper chose to change our involvement in Afghanistan into a shooting war and then followed the USA into their invasions in the Middle East. He is the one who put targets on our backs.

It may take a while to remove those targets.

I've done a ton of traveling since 2006 and think you are delusional. We have never been more or less a target than anyone else from a western democracy and if you think JT being in power is going to give you some kind of special protection you are even more delusional.

[Big Guy]

So "ridiculous", "nonsensical", "delusional" - Do you really expect me to take your comments seriously?

As I stated before, Canadians became targets only after we decided to join the USA in their "excursions" to regime changing in the Middle East. Canadians only became "me too USA" when Harper took over. While there are many more creative ways that I might describe what I believe your comments to be I will call them "historically unsound".

I also strongly suggest that you read:

"War at the Top of the World: The Struggle for Afghanistan, Kashmir, and Tibet" (ISBN 0-415-93062-6) - Eric Margolis

"American Raj: The West and the Muslim World" (ISBN 1-554-70087-6) - Eric Margolis

"The Unexpected War: Canada in Kandahar", (2007) - Janice Stein

Perhaps you may improve your knowledge of the conflicts in the Middle East and its effect on Canada.

[Wilber]

So "ridiculous", "nonsensical", "delusional" - Do you really expect me to take your comments seriously?

As I stated before, Canadians became targets only after we decided to join the USA in their "excursions" to regime changing in the Middle East. Canadians only became "me too USA" when Harper took over. While there are many more creative ways that I might describe what I believe your comments to be I will call them "historically unsound".

I also strongly suggest that you read:

"War at the Top of the World: The Struggle for Afghanistan, Kashmir, and Tibet" (ISBN 0-415-93062-6) - Eric Margolis

"American Raj: The West and the Muslim World" (ISBN 1-554-70087-6) - Eric Margolis

"The Unexpected War: Canada in Kandahar", (2007) - Janice Stein

Perhaps you may improve your knowledge of the conflicts in the Middle East and its effect on Canada.

I am familiar with the conflicts in the Middle East but if you think wearing a Canadian flag is going to give you some kind of immunity when you travel you are delusional. The perpetrators of the Paris massacre weren't singling out Canadians and giving them a let. Muslims were released during the Westgate massacre so you might have been OK if you were a Canadian Muslim, otherwise you were in the same boat as everyone else.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

I also strongly suggest that you read:

I would suggest that you read:

Dark Threats & White Knights - The Somalia Affair, Peacekeeping, and the New Imperialism (2004) - ISBN 0-8020-8663-2 by Sherene H. Razback

[Argus]

Canada was never a target until Harper chose to change our involvement in Afghanistan into a shooting war

You appear to know virtually nothing about our mission there and how it evolved. Canada was involved in a shooting war in Afghanistan long before Harper took power.

and then followed the USA into their invasions in the Middle East.

Harper joined our allies, both Arab and Western, in doing our bit to combat the genocidal group ISIS. You appear to have no issue with ISIS or perhaps no care in whether they or anyone else commits genocide, but Canada has long taken a strong position in combating genocide. It is not going to change just because a few people are afraid.

[bush_cheney2004]

You appear to know virtually nothing about our mission there and how it evolved. Canada was involved in a shooting war in Afghanistan long before Harper took power.

True....Canada's JTF2 was sent to Afghanistan for combat operations in late 2001....Parliament found out when their distinctive forest green uniforms were seen in a photograph published back home in a newspaper. Ooops !

Trudeau's budget includes military support that he can't even imagine, let alone approve of.

Edited December 16, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

I also strongly suggest that you read:

"War at the Top of the World: The Struggle for Afghanistan, Kashmir, and Tibet" (ISBN 0-415-93062-6) - Eric Margolis

"American Raj: The West and the Muslim World" (ISBN 1-554-70087-6) - Eric Margolis

"The Unexpected War: Canada in Kandahar", (2007) - Janice Stein

It might not have occurred to you, but when you decide to only read from authors who share your world view, all it does is reinforce ignorance. it does not expand the mind or give you any special insights. Rather like those people whose only news source is FOX news, it simply closes your mind to reality.

[CITIZEN_2015]

But people buying cars and houses and furniture are what help drive the economy. The higher the price for those goods the more likely people will be to put such purchases off which means the economy suffers.

Yes very valid statement but every tax causes economic slow down as people will have less money to spend, and so will a deficit. My point, GST tax is fairer than income tax (unless it is for the rich) because those who afford to buy big items will pay more.

[August1991]

What a thread...

I recall a trip to Burkina Faso, when a gent identified me as American. I gently corrected him by saying I was Canadian . His response was short and accurate: "same thing". And from his perspective he was right. There was no need for him to differentiate, we all look, act and are the same from his side.

IMHO, we Canadians enjoy all the benefits of being American without any of the costs or responsibility. Edited December 20, 2015 by August1991

[Keepitsimple]

Interesting move of the goalposts - going from a "modest" $10 billion deficit promise for two years to what is now a "goal". Now their economical "anchor" is maintaining the net debt to GDP ratio where it is - roughly 35%. In English, what that means is that no matter how much the economy grows (or doesn't), this government feels entitled to go into deficit by an amount equal to 35% of that increase.

For example, Canada's GDP is currently about $1785 billion. Growth of 2% would be an additional 35.7 billion. 35% of that would be $12.5 billion......and that would be the "allowable" deficit for the year. Using that as a benchmark, an $18.75 billion deficit would require growth of 3%. Conversely, growth of only 1.5% would restrict the allowable deficit to $9.37 billion.

As you can see, the original promise of holding the deficit to $10 billion is imminently doable in terms of a net debt to GDP ratio, even if not prudent......but not achieving 2% growth is a very real danger - as is running deficits in excess of $10 billion. Put them both together and you've got the highway to hell.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Keepitsimple

[August1991]

Interesting move of the goalposts - going from a "modest" $10 billion deficit promise for two years to what is now a "goal". Now their economical "anchor" is maintaining the net debt to GDP ratio where it is - roughly 35%. In English, what that means is that no matter how much the economy grows (or doesn't), this government feels entitled to go into deficit by an amount equal to 35% of that increase.

For example, Canada's GDP is currently about $1785 billion. Growth of 2% would be an additional 35.7 billion. 35% of that would be $12.5 billion......and that would be the "allowable" deficit for the year. Using that as a benchmark, an $18.75 billion deficit would require growth of 3%. Conversely, growth of only 1.5% would restrict the allowable deficit to $9.37 billion.

As you can see, the original promise of holding the deficit to $10 billion is imminently doable in terms of a net debt to GDP ratio, even if not prudent......but not achieving 2% growth is a very real danger - as is running deficits in excess of $10 billion. Put them both together and you've got the highway to hell.

Too many numbers, KISS.

Trudeau Jnr has great "hollymoon" poll numbers now. In about a year or so, when LIV wonder what's happening, polls will change. For starters, they'll wonder why the Canadian dollar is so low, friend lost job and they'll drop out of surveys/polls.

======

But make no mistake: Under Trudeau Jnr, we are facing Bush Jnr style budget deficits.

Both sons are spendthrifts: IMHO, neither son knows how to say no.

Edited February 25, 2016 by August1991

[Smallc]

they'll wonder why the Canadian dollar is so low,

You mean the Harper Peso?

[August1991]

You mean the Harper Peso?

In recent times (20 years or so), I think that the Cdn dollar hit the lowest value under Chretien.

=====

Smallc, what scares me is how far politicians can push the envelope until voters (LIV) notice that something is wrong.

In 1900, Argentina and Canada were almost identical: same population, same GDP, same natural resources (oil, cattle, gold).

By 2000, Canada has a GDP per capita 3X Argentina. We got it right, they didn't. Why?

Edited February 27, 2016 by August1991

[August1991]

Canada’s new Liberal government is expected to post a shortfall of about C$30 billion ($22.5 billion) in its debut budget, representing one of biggest expansionary swings in fiscal policy in the nation’s history. It’s the sort of activism increasingly touted within global policy circles, including at the International Monetary Fund, as central banks begin to run low on tools.

Bloomberg

Wait for the numbers to fall into place.

Mitterand tried this in the early 1980s.

[alexmac]

There are no surprises in any of this. We get lied to we vote out a government and then...get lied to.

Our company , as of March 1 , has suspended plans to hire 10 people here because of what we see as

a major disaster for Canada about to hit economically. We will fulfill our current obligations but will not carry on with planned expansions for 2016-2017 .

This decision was made because of federal government policies that are making it impossible to have any kind of competitive level while maintaining a sustainable growth and profitability in our market as it stands today.

We for see the establishment of a carbon tax as a stagnant tax with no outlook on what should actually be taking place.

To put a tax in front of any other plan is just a simple money grab which will make no difference other than to increase general revenue coffers and make most feel like they are doing something green.

Spending with no constraint is a formula for a major disaster and no budgets do not balance themselves.

[Cl Le]

Canada is now on the same dangerous path as Ontario . Ontario has the world's largest sub sovereign debt , twice that of California , pays 1 billion a month to just interest , racked up another 12 billion dollar deficit which was greater than Canada and all other provinces combined ( before the Liberals took power Federally of course ) and they can also boast the fact they have North America's most expensive energy , probably not a good idea when your main asset is manufacturing . The federal Liberals have now saddled tax payers with a 30 - 40 billion dollar year one deficit while unemployment continues to rise . Get ready for higher taxes to support more lavish Liberal spending with no net benefit to hard working Canadians !

[Smallc]

Canada is now on the same dangerous path as Ontario

Actually, Ontario has a shrinking deficit, while Canada's is growing.

Ontario has the world's largest sub sovereign debt

And is not comparable to most sub sovereign entities due to Canada's construction.

twice that of California

A place not comparable or relevant.

pays 1 billion a month to just interest

Yes, that's unfortunate.

racked up another 12 billion dollar deficit

Ontario's deficit for the current year is $5.7B.

The federal Liberals have now saddled tax payers with a 30 - 40 billion dollar year one deficit while unemployment continues to rise

How did you feel about Harper's $56B deficit?

Edited March 20, 2016 by Smallc

[Cl Le]

How do you feel that Trudeau will have racked up a larger deficit in 4 years while not facing a market meltdown than Harper did in almost ten years ? Why is Canada's unemployment numbers continuing to climb ? Is the 30 - 40 billion dollar deficit no stimulating the economy or was that just wasteful Liberal spending as always ? How long did it take the Liberals to waste the 2 billion dollar surplus left to them ? My guess 2 days !

[msj]

I consider a fall in oil prices of 60% in the past few years a "market meltdown" that will continue to have an impact on Canada as long as oil prices remain below $60.

Throw in other commodities that continue to be at reduced prices and we have an economic scenario that is a headwind for Canada.

Thankfully the US is doing well which may keep us from getting too much worse.

Little of this has anything to do with Harper or Trudeau.

[Cl Le]

Trudeau and Mourneau are responsible for controlling spending , correct ? Why bring a delegation of 388 people to Paris , larger than the US and UK combined ? Any idea how expensive that is and how large the carbon foot print was ? Think a delegation of 388 can work cohesively and function effectively ? That is just one small example of this governments incompetence and anyone with an ounce of common sense sees right through it . Bring on the higher taxes to pay for Liberal mismanagement .

[dre]

How do you feel that Trudeau will have racked up a larger deficit in 4 years while not facing a market meltdown than Harper did in almost ten years ? Why is Canada's unemployment numbers continuing to climb ? Is the 30 - 40 billion dollar deficit no stimulating the economy or was that just wasteful Liberal spending as always ? How long did it take the Liberals to waste the 2 billion dollar surplus left to them ? My guess 2 days !

None of that spending has even made its way into the economy yet. And inheriting a massive housing bubble, a population with no savings, dangerously aggressive rate policy, and a crash in commodities pricing is just as much of an economic challenge as anything Harper ever faced.