#BlackLivesMatter jumps the shark

[kimmy]

I realize that many of you felt that it had jumped the shark from day one.

However, I was kind of on board when I thought it was about confronting the callous use of excessive force by the police.

But now it is apparently about storming libraries and harrassing white students who are trying to study, and I can't be sympathetic anymore.

http://coed.com/2015/11/16/dartmouth-college-black-lives-matter-protest-violence-video-details/

Like with the Occupy protests, it seems to have changed from something that started out with a specific message and devolved into a magnet for angry people who want to vent.

-k

[Moonlight Graham]

That's pretty ridiculous, ya. But is this just one of a few isolated incidents or is most of the movement now like this? We can't dismiss a whole protest movement because of 1 or 2 foolish outbursts by immature idiots.

[Black Dog]

Like Occupy, though, there's no single, monolithic movement here.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied [Opening Post]

[AngusThermopyle]

Nice guys, after the Paris attacks they took to Twitter posting messages such as f-ck Paris, f-ck the French. Also all kinds of posts celebrating and praising the attacks. They've gone from victim status to advocating terrorism. I was sympathetic to their cause but after this last incident they have lost my support and sympathy. Now I'm starting to think they should change "hands up don't shoot" to "pants up don't loot" as some have suggested.

[Black Dog]

Nice guys, after the Paris attacks they took to Twitter posting messages such as f-ck Paris, f-ck the French. Also all kinds of posts celebrating and praising the attacks. They've gone from victim status to advocating terrorism. I was sympathetic to their cause but after this last incident they have lost my support and sympathy. Now I'm starting to think they should change "hands up don't shoot" to "pants up don't loot" as some have suggested.

"They" being...?

[TimG]

However, I was kind of on board when I thought it was about confronting the callous use of excessive force by the police.

FWIW, I support the concrete proposals that some in the movement are calling for: http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

The incident you linked is just another example of the totalitarian tendencies in any movement motivated by the belief in a moral crusade because the belief that the crusade is for "good" tends to imply (in the minds of adherents) that people who disagree are "evil" and don't deserve to be treated as humans.

Edited November 17, 2015 by TimG

[H10]

I think there are bad apples in any group. There are bad apples in my grade 3 class, bad apples in my high school, bad apples in my university, workplace, gym, on the road, at the airport, on the police force, in the liberal, conservative, ndp party. come to think of it, where doesn't have bad apples?

If we are to abandon and leave and ignore every group who has bad apples, then we'd ignore everyone. Point to me a group where it is perfect and no bad apples? In a movement with millions of people you are going to have some bad apples who act for themselves. We also have to understand this is media 3rd hand reporting and they tend to want to exaggerate things, especially when its between race, their view is race sells. For instance there was a 5000 student riot at Berekely about a month ago, and but for a cousin who attends I'd never hear of it, it was ignored in the news. Oh, and its almost all white rioters.

Ironically some of the French supporters have fire bombed msoques in peterborough and have beat and attacked muslims. should that mean we should no longer feel bad for french victims, or should we recognize that there are extremist every looking for opportunities to be extreme.

[TimG]

For instance there was a 5000 student riot at Berekely about a month ago, and but for a cousin who attends I'd never hear of it, it was ignored in the news.

University students getting drunk and a few fights breaking out is not a "riot" nor is it international news:

http://sfist.com/2015/11/01/berkeley_halloween_riots.php

Despite the massive gathering and the objects being thrown by people in the crowd, police say there was only one confirmed case of property damage—a smashed car on Channing Way.

[Hal 9000]

I think there are bad apples in any group. There are bad apples in my grade 3 class, bad apples in my high school, bad apples in my university, workplace, gym, on the road, at the airport, on the police force, in the liberal, conservative, ndp party. come to think of it, where doesn't have bad apples?

If we are to abandon and leave and ignore every group who has bad apples, then we'd ignore everyone. Point to me a group where it is perfect and no bad apples? In a movement with millions of people you are going to have some bad apples who act for themselves. We also have to understand this is media 3rd hand reporting and they tend to want to exaggerate things, especially when its between race, their view is race sells. For instance there was a 5000 student riot at Berekely about a month ago, and but for a cousin who attends I'd never hear of it, it was ignored in the news. Oh, and its almost all white rioters.

Ironically some of the French supporters have fire bombed msoques in peterborough and have beat and attacked muslims. should that mean we should no longer feel bad for french victims, or should we recognize that there are extremist every looking for opportunities to be extreme.

Syrian refugees, If you listen to some of the people on this board.

[-1=e^ipi]

I don't think it makes sense to generalize a twitter hashtag be it #blacklivesmatter, #gamergater, #idlenomore or whatever. Anyone can self-identify with the hashtag and harass others.

[Moonlight Graham]

I don't think it makes sense to generalize a twitter hashtag be it #blacklivesmatter, #gamergater, #idlenomore or whatever. Anyone can self-identify with the hashtag and harass others.

I agree. It's a protest movement, but it's completely disorganized, ie: it has no leader, no central command group guiding it. ANYONE can be a part of these groups, and you can't kick out the bad members who do dumb things. Since this group has zero central guidance/policies or leadership structure, some random young people getting carried away in a library and harassing some folks only speaks to those who did those things in the library, and shouldn't reflect on the group as a whole unless most of them are doing the same thing.

[Moonlight Graham]

The incident you linked is just another example of the totalitarian tendencies in any movement motivated by the belief in a moral crusade because the belief that the crusade is for "good" tends to imply (in the minds of adherents) that people who disagree are "evil" and don't deserve to be treated as humans.

That's a pretty sophistcated philosophical statement on morality right there. If I had more time right now I'd get into...maybe another time.

[Moonlight Graham]

Another thing, is how we all identify as different "groups. "Black lives matter" is black rights, for "blacks" as a group. It's incredible how harmful group identity can be, no matter who identifies a bunch of people as a defined "group" (ie: people who identify themselves as a particular group, or people identify others as a group).

Black people have black skin, so they're a group different from whites, who are different from Muslims, who are different from homosexuals, who are different from rich people, who are different from Quebecois who are different from Israelis who are different from Iranians etc.

It's amazing how humans divide themselves into "groups" based on certain traits, and then these groups have power struggles. Sure these individuals within "groups" can have certain things in common but every individual within a group is uniquely different, and when we stick people in "groups" we automatically stereotype people in these groups and those outside our "group" rather than treating everyone exclusively on their own merit as individual people. We all belong to the human species, yet we treat or think of everyone differently based on what sub-groups they're mentally boxed into. Probably socially unavoidable but still interesting.

[H10]

University students getting drunk and a few fights breaking out is not a "riot" nor is it international news:

http://sfist.com/2015/11/01/berkeley_halloween_riots.php

Berkeley police respond to huge Southside riot

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2015/11/01/breaking-berkeley-police-respond-to-huge-southside-riot/

Yeah a few fights eh

http://www.berkeleyside.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/CStYGgVUAAAdp6p-720x540.jpg

Edited November 18, 2015 by H10
unnecessary image removed

[TimG]

Berkeley police respond to huge Southside riot

Try reading the article instead of the click bait headline. It was not a riot. It was a large collection of drunk college students with a few trouble makers. One car was damaged and a couple people arrested. I know you desperately want to believe that this is a story that "ignored" because fits your "perpetual victim narrative". But the facts don't support you.

[H10]

Try reading the article instead of the click bait headline. It was not a riot. It was a large collection of drunk college students with a few trouble makers. One car was damaged and a couple people arrested. I know you desperately want to believe that this is a story that "ignored" because fits your "perpetual victim narrative". But the facts don't support you.

That is true of any "riot" though. This is your perspective.