Waiting for the Trudeau Jnr Flip-Flop

August1991 · November 21, 2015

On the refugee issue all he has to do is get 25,000 Syrians into Canada over the next year or so and I doubt anyone who is on that side of the issue will let this issue affect their voting intentions in four years.

"Next year or so"? No, Trudeau Jnr wants to bring these 25,000 Syrians to Canada before 31 December 2015.

That's what he promised and apparently, that's what he intends to do.

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As it happens, the arbitrary nature of this decision bothers me the most. Millions of people, around the world, suffer and would love to move to Canada. Because of Justin Trudeau's election, some bureaucrats now have the power to decide "who gets in".

Edited November 21, 2015 by August1991

August1991 · November 21, 2015

Canadian fighters are involved in something like 6% of all combat ops in the area. Do you really think that's meaningful?

Yet, our contribution to CO2 emissions (1% of world output?) seems, according to some, more meaningful.

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BD, honestly (subject for another thread) which matters more/greater threat: global warming or crazy Islamic people?

As an ordinary citizen in the civilized West, when thinking about my daughter, should I worry more about rising water levels or what her future in Canada in 2060 will be like?

Edited November 21, 2015 by August1991

msj · November 21, 2015

"Next year or so"? No, Trudeau Jnr wants to bring these 25,000 Syrians to Canada before 31 December 2015.

That's what he promised and apparently, that's what he intends to do.

To the extent that the process is adhered to and is not compromised by rushing into an arbitrary deadline then that's fine. The results should be the same, then.

Politically, it would be better to give the appearance of due process and consideration.

CITIZEN_2015 · November 23, 2015

To the OP. You may have to wait a long time for Trudeau flip-flop to happen if ever. I have been watching Mr. Trudeau carefully and he is only getting better every day as he did during federal campaign. I saw him in today's conference with premiers on climate change and he is demonstrating some great leadership. Even the NDP premier of Alberta (who throw his support for Mulcair during the campaign) praised Trydeau and everyone seems very happy to see such a nice friendly change of tone in the government. First time ever they got together in 7 years. Thank God the dictatorial arrogant corrupt regime of Harper has ended. It has become a much better country and it appears all the premiers and journalist and even a big majority of the entire nation (based on recent Nanos poll) agree with this

Argus · November 25, 2015

I agree with you. The only reasonable justification for me, is this: the jets are old. These combat missions put a lot of stress on them. We need them to last until replacements start arriving in 3-4 years.

Uhm, just a tad optimistic, aren't you? They haven't even designed the process they will run to see which aircraft they will take. I expect the decision might not even be made during the next 3-4 years. Then there'll be a ten year or so lead time (based on past purchases) before they start getting delivered.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Argus

Argus · November 25, 2015

To the OP. You may have to wait a long time for Trudeau flip-flop to happen if ever.

Lovely timing you have there.

CITIZEN_2015 · November 25, 2015

Lovely timing you have there.

Is this supposed to mean something???

August1991 · November 25, 2015

To the extent that the process is adhered to and is not compromised by rushing into an arbitrary deadline then that's fine. The results should be the same, then.

Politically, it would be better to give the appearance of due process and consideration.

So if Harper or the ConBots do it, it's backward, regressive and makes ordinary people feel their Canada is lost.

But if Trudeau Jnr does it (accept 10,000 refugees), it's "adhering to due process" or some such.

msj, that's partisanship at its most, uh, exemplary. But as Obama once said, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

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BTW, am I the only person who wonders if Trudeau Jnr is bipolar (like his Mom)? Flights of fancy followed by reality crashing in...

msj · November 25, 2015

So if Harper or the ConBots do it, it's backward, regressive and makes ordinary people feel their Canada is lost.

But if Trudeau Jnr does it (accept 10,000 refugees), it's "adhering to due process" or some such.

msj, that's partisanship at its most, uh, exemplary. But as Obama once said, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

When did Harper do what Trudeau has done?

Had Harper flipped on the GST cut and said he could only cut it once (or preferably not at all) then I would have praised him.

Alas, Harper brought down poor legislation after poor legislation and his best flip flop, the forcing of certain business trusts to become corporations which led to pension splitting for seniors, was a terrible flip flop compared to the alternatives but that is for a thread long ago.

Trudeau is in power now so Harper who?

Argus · November 25, 2015

Is this supposed to mean something???

August said in his OP that Trudeau would eventually have to flip flop on bringing the refugees over by end of year. You defiantly tell him it will never happen, and the next day it happens. What's unclear?

Big Guy · November 25, 2015

There is a site that has been created to keep track of JT promises:

https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/

Nice read for political junkies.

CITIZEN_2015 · November 25, 2015

August said in his OP that Trudeau would eventually have to flip flop on bringing the refugees over by end of year. You defiantly tell him it will never happen, and the next day it happens. What's unclear?

Many members yourself included were criticizing Trudeau for this and now that he postponed (not canceled) for good reasons then you call it a flip-flop!!!!!!!

Argus · November 25, 2015

Many members yourself included were criticizing Trudeau for this and now that he postponed (not canceled) for good reasons then you call it a flip-flop!!!!!!!

Many members, myself included, found the promise irresponsible and contrary to Canada's interests. He did it to score points in an election. I'm pleased he has admitted it is impossible, but that does not make the decision to bring over 25,000 refugees who will be incapable of ever supporting themselves a good idea. The US and UK have only promised 10,000 apiece, and over the next year or two.

CITIZEN_2015 · November 25, 2015

Many members, myself included, found the promise irresponsible and contrary to Canada's interests. He did it to score points in an election. I'm pleased he has admitted it is impossible, but that does not make the decision to bring over 25,000 refugees who will be incapable of ever supporting themselves a good idea. The US and UK have only promised 10,000 apiece, and over the next year or two.

He did NOT made this promise to score points as most Canadians did not favor this decision during and after the election. He made that promise based on principle that there are many desperate and very needy people in awful situation needing immediate help as soon as possible and his heart was at the right place. But after we got s close to end of the year (and the government transition took more than two weeks) then he was advised that it may not be 100% possible to carry out his pre-election promise and he was correct to not cancel but postpone the full action by a month or two.

capricorn · November 25, 2015

He made that promise based on principle that there are many desperate and very needy people in awful situation needing immediate help as soon as possible and his heart was at the right place.

I don't want a Prime Minister that governs from the heart. I want a Prime Minister with his/her two feet solidly on the ground, using logic when making important decisions for the country. This doesn't mean a Prime Minister cannot be compassionate, but compassion should not totally replace common sense.

CITIZEN_2015 · November 25, 2015

I don't want a Prime Minister that governs from the heart. I want a Prime Minister with his/her two feet solidly on the ground, using logic when making important decisions for the country. This doesn't mean a Prime Minister cannot be compassionate, but compassion should not totally replace common sense.

That is exactly what happened. At the time he was compassionate and he made that promise but later common sense told him (and likely his advisers too) that the plan should be postponed. However if you prefer a heartless cold blooded arrogant anti-science ideology driven rather than scientific evidence then someone else may be a candidate for the Prime Minister position in 2019.

capricorn · November 25, 2015

At the time he was compassionate and he made that promise but later common sense told him (and likely his advisers too) that the plan should be postponed.

The opinion polls were not exactly in favour of the tight deadline either. All in all, a much better plan than it was initially.

Edited November 25, 2015 by capricorn

Keepitsimple · November 25, 2015

The opinion polls were not exactly in favour of the tight deadline either. All in all, a much better plan than it was initially.

I really doubt there was a plan - I mean c'mon - doing some of the security checking after they are in Canada? Now there's a plan. Let's see if they can get close to achieving it.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Keepitsimple

August1991 · November 26, 2015

If Trudeau steps back and delays the artificial, arbitrary, and self imposed deadline then I think most people will agree with that, or enough won't care as to make such wanking about "flip flopping" look like the wankstering it is.

So, msj, you are prepared to pay higher taxes simply to have someone such as Trudeau Jnr as your PM - rather than let that guy Harper manage our affairs..

Edited November 26, 2015 by August1991

Keepitsimple · November 26, 2015

Now we find that the refugee promise of 25,000 additional refugees will take more than a year - is this a portent of things to come?

But the backtracking on this file also confirms what some critics had long said about Trudeaus refugee promise that it was always impractical.

That, in turn, casts a shadow over Trudeaus other bold campaign pledges. Were they as badly thought out as this one?

Thats when Immigration Minister John McCallum and other cabinet members admitted that the Liberals would, in fact, take more than a year to admit and process 25,000 government-sponsored Syrian refugees.

Some 10,000 refugees will be admitted by Dec. 31 of this year. But many of those are privately sponsored and had already been partially vetted under the Conservative regime.

As Thomas Walkom of The Star (not my favourite paper) puts it:

......................................

But the backtracking on this file also confirms what some critics had long said about Trudeaus refugee promise that it was always impractical.

That, in turn, casts a shadow over Trudeaus other bold campaign pledges. Were they as badly thought out as this one? Specifically, will stubborn reality cause Trudeau to back away from his ambitious promise to spend billions on rebuilding Canadian infrastructure and stimulating the lagging economy? Will it force him to rethink his promise to end Canadas combat mission in the Iraq-Syrian war? Will it make him amend his equally bold promise to replace Canadas first-past-the-post electoral system with something seemingly more democratic before the next federal election?

Link: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/26/justin-trudeaus-backtracking-on-refugee-promise-casts-shadow-over-other-pledges-walkom.html

Edited November 26, 2015 by Charles Anthony
thread merged; former OP titled " Bold and Daring - Strike One - What's next for the Trudeau Edicts?"

overthere · November 26, 2015

Trudeau is completely meeting an election promise with the 10000 by end of this year.

The only niggling detail is that it was an NDP election promise.

TimG · November 26, 2015

Now we find that the refugee promise of 25,000 additional refugees will take more than a year - is this a portent of things to come?

We don't want to elect governments that feel compelled to keep dumb promises because they made promises. So Trudeau's willingness to back peddle is to be lauded. That said, it is important for opposition remind people that Trudeau makes dumb promises that can't be kept. This will be especially important once he announces any "commitments for CO2 reductions"

Smallc · November 26, 2015

Trudeau's platform never gave a date for 25,000 and included private and government refugees. I'm not sure why they started verbalizing the end of the year.

overthere · November 26, 2015

Two of the three national parties got into a bidding war over the corpse of a dead child drowned on a beach. The Liberals won.

notca · November 26, 2015

Trudeau had better 'flip-flop' his arrogant attitude toward the lowly Canadian people if he wants to hold on to his popularity. He is showing signs of the same kind of disdain that his father showed to the commoners.

By one way and another it is the Canadian people who have formed our way of life. Now Trudeau's determination to change everything for the better certainly indicates what he thinks of the Canada we, the common people have created.