Waiting for the Trudeau Jnr Flip-Flop

Smallc · November 17, 2015

To be honest, most Canadians are probably ignorant of the particulars of the case.

Most Canadians are also ignorant of their own Constitution and what their country actually stands for.

msj · November 17, 2015

To be honest, most Canadians are probably ignorant of the particulars of the case.

Good point. No wonder the majority are wrong on this issue.

But, back to Trudeau: he hasn't flipped flopped on this issue.

hitops · November 17, 2015

Good point. No wonder the majority are wrong on this issue.

But, back to Trudeau: he hasn't flipped flopped on this issue.

On the war and Syrian immigration? True he is staying consistent.

But when there are body parts of Canadians flopping around like in Paris, we will see how much flip-flopping happens.

msj · November 17, 2015

On the refugee issue all he has to do is get 25,000 Syrians into Canada over the next year or so and I doubt anyone who is on that side of the issue will let this issue affect their voting intentions in four years.

The anti-refugee crowd aren't going to vote for him anyway so he can ignore whatever they have to say on this issue.

This is a case where he could "flip flop" and would be no worse for it. Maybe slightly better.

But, you know, when the facts change so should one's opinion and all that.

PIK · November 17, 2015

A real leader will rethink promises ,if our security is in question, Trudeau is not a real leader. And if he goes thru with it and we then start having trouble, he will have to resign. I have a feeling he might not make it 4 yrs. At least he will be gone after 4.

drummindiver · November 17, 2015

But, you know, when the facts change so should one's opinion and all that.

??

What facts have changed?

Terrorists be terrorists.

Nothing changed about that. They be doing terrorist shite all the day long.

Smoke · November 17, 2015

On the refugee issue all he has to do is get 25,000 Syrians into Canada over the next year or so and I doubt anyone who is on that side of the issue will let this issue affect their voting intentions in four years.

The anti-refugee crowd aren't going to vote for him anyway so he can ignore whatever they have to say on this issue.

This is a case where he could "flip flop" and would be no worse for it. Maybe slightly better.

But, you know, when the facts change so should one's opinion and all that.

So you are saying it's all about the votes for the Trudeau Liberals. Trying to remember where I heard how wrong that was......hhhhhmmmmmm

Keepitsimple · November 18, 2015

Pulling out the CF18's.....

Sure paints a different picture of that arrogant statement that "Canada's Back!".

Smallc · November 18, 2015

Pulling out the CF18's.....

They're not gone yet. In fact, they've stepped up their efforts. By the time they leave, this will all be a semi distant memory.

Black Dog · November 18, 2015

Pulling out the CF18's.....

Sure paints a different picture of that arrogant statement that "Canada's Back!".

Canadian fighters are involved in something like 6% of all combat ops in the area. Do you really think that's meaningful?

PIK · November 18, 2015

Actually 2%, but that is almost 2000 sorties. If we don't do it someone else has to step in and do our work for us. The fact is a NATO ally has been attacked and Canada's response is, we are leaving. Think about it.

drummindiver · November 18, 2015

On the refugee issue all he has to do is get 25,000 Syrians into Canada over the next year or so and I doubt anyone who is on that side of the issue will let this issue affect their voting intentions in four years.

The anti-refugee crowd aren't going to vote for him anyway so he can ignore whatever they have to say on this issue.

This is a case where he could "flip flop" and would be no worse for it. Maybe slightly better.

But, you know, when the facts change so should one's opinion and all that.

Glad you have all bases covered.

Doesn't flip flop-good

Flip flops-good

And love the "majority are wrong" comment. Glad you and a few like you know what's right in this world.

Oye vei

"Good point. No wonder the majority are wrong on this issue.

But, back to Trudeau: he hasn't flipped flopped on this issue."

"This is a case where he could "flip flop" and would be no worse for it. Maybe slightly better.

But, you know, when the facts change so should one's opinion and all that."

Black Dog · November 18, 2015

Actually 2%, but that is almost 2000 sorties.

I stand corrected on the percentages but that's still fewer than 1,100 sorties and only a few of those involving actual combat.

If we don't do it someone else has to step in and do our work for us.

Or no one could and it wouldn't really make much of a difference either way.

The fact is a NATO ally has been attacked and Canada's response is, we are leaving. Think about it.

The decision to withdraw the CF-18s precluded the Paris attacks as you well know. You should also know that JT is talking about tramping up other aspects of the mission. I guess the question is: do you really think the minuscule contribution Canada is making to the air campaign in terms of bombs dropped is the best use of resources? If the answer is yes, there's not much else to talk about.

Smallc · November 18, 2015

I stand corrected on the percentages but that's still fewer than 1,100 sorties and only a few of those involving actual combat.

It'll be interesting to see if they leave the ISR aircraft there. It's something we're good at.

Keepitsimple · November 18, 2015

Canadian fighters are involved in something like 6% of all combat ops in the area. Do you really think that's meaningful?

It is....especially when you combine it with:

planes from Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the UAE

France

The UK

Czech Republic

Australia - 8 fighters

Belgium - 6 fighters

Denmark - 7 fighters

Netherlands - 6 fighters

If you have the capacity to help - then help, don't leave the heavy work to others. We clearly have the capacity - and now we're saying "no more"....or should that be "no mas"?

msj · November 18, 2015

"Good point. No wonder the majority are wrong on this issue.

But, back to Trudeau: he hasn't flipped flopped on this issue."

He was elected on bringing them in. The timing, in my view, is not material. By year end, by fiscal year end, by June 30 - few people are going to care.

As for the majority - setting refugee policy (at least basic numbers and timing) is a political action that is not related to our Constitution. Nor is it going to go in front of any judge.

It is politics and he who is in power will set the rules until such time any of those rules are determined to violate the Constitution - so suck it up for another 4 years.

msj · November 18, 2015

If you have the capacity to help - then help, don't leave the heavy work to others. We clearly have the capacity - and now we're saying "no more"....or should that be "no mas"?

Sure, but there are other ways we can help besides dropping bombs.

Those may be less visible but they could be as helpful.

drummindiver · November 18, 2015

Sure, but there are other ways we can help besides dropping bombs.

Well, he still has those jackets......

Keepitsimple · November 19, 2015

Sure, but there are other ways we can help besides dropping bombs.

Those may be less visible but they could be as helpful.

It's not an either/or decision. We can and should continue to do all three - training, air combat and support - and humanitarian. What will those jets be doing if we bring them back?

Smallc · November 19, 2015

It's not an either/or decision. We can and should continue to do all three - training, air combat and support - and humanitarian. What will those jets be doing if we bring them back?

I agree with you. The only reasonable justification for me, is this: the jets are old. These combat missions put a lot of stress on them. We need them to last until replacements start arriving in 3-4 years.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Smallc

msj · November 19, 2015

Yep, agree with smallc on this one.

Smallc · November 19, 2015

Yep, agree with smallc on this one.

That may or may not be part of the Liberal rationale. I have no problem with bombing, training, or even hand to hand combat if necessary. I do have a problem with our worn out equipment being used on an endeavour of questionable value. Hundreds and even potentially more in the way of trainers is far from cutting and running as many are insinuating.

One more thing. If Harper could leave combat in Afghanistan before the mission was over, Trudequ should be able to leave a bombing mission in Iraq.

Keepitsimple · November 19, 2015

I agree with you. The only reasonable justification for me, is this: the jets are old. These combat missions put a lot of stress on them. We need them to last until replacements start arriving in 3-4 years.

That's not Trudeau's rationale......although he may eventually seek cover with that lame excuse. That said, I expect that one way or another, the mission will continue. Given the situation, it's a stain on Canada - sends the wrong message to our allies - and to Daesh. This is a Three Musketeers moment - all for one and one for all.

Smallc · November 19, 2015

That's not Trudeau's rationale......although he may eventually seek cover with that lame excuse. That said, I expect that one way or another, the mission will continue. Given the situation, it's a stain on Canada - sends the wrong message to our allies - and to Daesh. This is a Three Musketeers moment - all for one and one for all.

If the bombing mission continues until the end of February even, the Paris attack will be a fading memory.

Trudeau promised to bring the planes home. The fact that they're still there shows that he doesn't see this as the right time.