Trudeau's new taxes

[socialist]

Good for you.

I don't have any kids so I budget $15,000+ per year for travel and lots each year in TFSA/RRSP contributions while you buy diapers.

I travel and have plenty of room for TFSA. Diapers don't bother me. Now I will have even more for travel and more for TFSA.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yup! We have ourselves another internet tycoon! LOL.

Yeah, and yet another one who seems to have developed an affinity with Justin's body.

[angrypenguin]

I give up. I'm outta here. I thought I'd stay on to chat post election, but the entitlement from the left shocks me

I travel and have plenty of room for TFSA. Diapers don't bother me. Now I will have even more for travel and more for TFSA.

This sums it up. The middle class likes to talk about how $ is there to help the poor vis a vis tax breaks, but in reality, the tax break incentivizes travel and vacations.

You entitled bunch who like to get on your soap box disgust me. It has been a useful discussion though for me. Anyways, i'm out, the internet has never truly bothered me and it won't, and like all of you say about harper, don't let the door hit you on the way out! It won't.

My last words on this are...if you want more money, go work for it. The fact that you guys believe that a vacation is something you deserve to have disgust me. I'll continue doing what I'm doing, knowing full well that some believe what you believe, and so the "guilt" that I have for changing my behavior post election...well I won't feel that anymore.

Cheers, enjoy MLW, it's been great posting, i'll wait until the next election to post again. Have fun, godspeed, and I will continue making sure that my tax dollars are not clawed by the government, as much as I can.

And you can be damn sure that i'll make sure my pocketbook wins, at the expense of others. Cheers.

Edited October 24, 2015 by angrypenguin

[dre]

And you're entitled to even 0.5% how?

Yes, I read the article and still rolled my eyes. Even if it's 0.01% more than what they are paying now...the fact you feel you're entitled to it disappoints me.

It has nothing to do with entitlements. The government has to fund itself through taxation, and its judged on the health of the economy. The best way to generate growth with tax policy in a service sector / consumption driven economy is to cut taxes for people that you know will spend the money on consumption.

This sums it up. The middle class likes to talk about how $ is there to help the poor vis a vis tax breaks, but in reality, the tax break incentivizes travel and vacations.

It incentivizes CONSUMPTION.

Edited October 24, 2015 by dre

[BC_chick]

If angrypenguin made $200k he would know these tips already.

Very true.

[angrypenguin]

Oh yay, personal attacks. I had maybe partially regretted my good bye post, nope, not anymore. SEE YA!

[Moonlight Graham]

The thing with a lot of these tax breaks is that they disproportionately help people who make a lot of money, a smaller # of people, not as much your average worker.

RRSP limit for 2015 is 25,000. Who the heck has 25k to put in an RRSP? TFSA limit was raised to 10k, and that's still quite a high sum, especially for a family making the Canadian income average of 50k each that needs to feed kids and pay down a mortgage and a car etc. Unless I'm mistaken, income splitting also most benefits a couple wealthy enough to have 1 parents working and 1 staying home full-time with the kids making little/no income. Even a couple where 1 makes 60k and the other makes 40k won't nearly benefit them as much as a couple where 1 makes 150k and 1 makes 60k.

Personally I think all these TFSA and RRSP and income splitting stuff and maybe even child tax benefits are just wasteful and confusing and create more government bureaucracy we have to pay for and make the tax code even more complicated. Why not just reduce income taxes across the board and be done with it?

[angrypenguin]

The thing with a lot of these tax breaks is that they disproportionately help people who make a lot of money, a smaller # of people, not as much your average worker.

RRSP limit for 2015 is 25,000. Who the heck has 25k to put in an RRSP? TFSA limit was raised to 10k, and that's still quite a high sum, especially for a family making the Canadian income average of 50k each that needs to feed kids and pay down a mortgage and a car etc. Unless I'm mistaken, income splitting also most benefits a couple wealthy enough to have 1 parents working and 1 staying home full-time with the kids making little/no income. Even a couple where 1 makes 60k and the other makes 40k won't nearly benefit them as much as a couple where 1 makes 150k and 1 makes 60k.

Personally I think all these TFSA and RRSP and income splitting stuff and maybe even child tax benefits are just wasteful and confusing and create more government bureaucracy we have to pay for and make the tax code even more complicated. Why not just reduce income taxes across the board and be done with it?

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/rrsp-reer/cntrbtng/lmts-eng.html

RRSP is tied to income.A family does not have to pay down mortgage or pay for a car. Those are optional extras.

Edited October 24, 2015 by angrypenguin

[Moonlight Graham]

Societies that try chase after what everyone 'deserve' end up making everyone poorer, including the poor.

You mean like Scandinavian countries? I guess we should strive for the glorious example of the USA right, with their income inequality, their lower education, lower health averages and life expectancy, higher crime etc?

See everyone thinks they deserve more of what the person up the food chain has. This applies to homeless people and millionaires.

Everyone thinks they deserve more. Middle and lower classes want less taxes and more subsidies, rich people want less taxes and more subsidies.

[socialist]

I give up. I'm outta here. I thought I'd stay on to chat post election, but the entitlement from the left shocks me

This sums it up. The middle class likes to talk about how $ is there to help the poor vis a vis tax breaks, but in reality, the tax break incentivizes travel and vacations.

You entitled bunch who like to get on your soap box disgust me. It has been a useful discussion though for me. Anyways, i'm out, the internet has never truly bothered me and it won't, and like all of you say about harper, don't let the door hit you on the way out! It won't.

My last words on this are...if you want more money, go work for it. The fact that you guys believe that a vacation is something you deserve to have disgust me. I'll continue doing what I'm doing, knowing full well that some believe what you believe, and so the "guilt" that I have for changing my behavior post election...well I won't feel that anymore.

Cheers, enjoy MLW, it's been great posting, i'll wait until the next election to post again. Have fun, godspeed, and I will continue making sure that my tax dollars are not clawed by the government, as much as I can.

And you can be damn sure that i'll make sure my pocketbook wins, at the expense of others. Cheers.

If you have kids you can get the cheques too. Not my fault you don't have kids. Don't complain that the govt is helping those of us who are providing a future workforce to help you as you get old while you contribute nothing. Buh bye.

[angrypenguin]

If you have kids you can get the cheques too. Not my fault you don't have kids. Don't complain that the govt is helping those of us who are providing a future workforce to help you as you get old while you contribute nothing. Buh bye.

Contribute nothing? Like by paying taxes for people like you?

Typical garbage.

[Moonlight Graham]

Perhaps, but the wealthiest 20% has seen their income grow faster than any other part of the population over the last 20 years. They've received, we can say, more than their fair share over that period.

It's not even 20% or the last 20 years, the top 1% has seen vast income growth the last 35 years and the bottom 99% or so have seen almost zero income growth. That's a system created by the rich, controlled by the rich, to benefit the rich. People are STUPID to let that continue.

I'm don't even think people like Angrypenguin should be the target, it should be the people making big money on Wall Street and Bay St. because they rig the system with their stock and hedgefund gambling addictions, and CEOs and corporations who take in big profits while working your average worker longer hours with fewer benefits and shorter contracts to avoid paying benefits. There's many small business owners who are good people and treat employees and customers well, but then there's greedy larger businesses that do everything they legally can to rip customers off and treat their employees like crap so they can squeeze every little cent out of them while they get even richer.

The thing with small businesses is that they are owned and operated by the same people, they have a human face, they actually know and talk to the people who work for them and buy from them, they care about profit but also have to look people in the eye. With corporations the owners are stockholders from around the world who have no human connection to the business and ONLY care about profit and stock price. Corporations dehumanize business and commerce, it makes living human beings (workers and customers) turn into just another asset or stat on the spreadsheet, like a machine.

[Bonam]

The thing with small businesses is that they are owned and operated by the same people, they have a human face, they actually know and talk to the people who work for them and buy from them, they care about profit but also have to look people in the eye. With corporations the owners are stockholders from around the world who have no human connection to the business and ONLY care about profit and stock price. Corporations dehumanize business and commerce, it makes living human beings (workers and customers) turn into just another asset or stat on the spreadsheet, like a machine.

But the thing with large corporations is that they enable everyone to partake in the fruits of capitalism by investing in them. It's hard and risky to invest in small private businesses, but large public corporations are another story. For just $100 or less, you too can be a stockholder in most any of these companies. Not only that, there are lots of products and services in our economy that can only realistically be delivered by large corporations and not small businesses.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Bonam

[bush_cheney2004]

Large corporations don't just absorb higher tax rates as punishment for their "evil ways"....these costs are passed on to consumers in the price of goods and services. Corporate taxes also encourage legal tax avoidance schemes and deductible debt financing.

[Smallc]

It's amazing how many filthy rich people managed to congregate here on this website...

[Topaz]

Maybe someone of u don't know that in parts of , at least, Ontario, unemployment is high ie. Essex county, 9.7% Chatham-Kent 9.7 % and both were/is represented both Tories federally, I think London On is high also, Shady may know but the point is there's people out there that need help and if u don't consider yourself very lucky.

[angrypenguin]

Maybe someone of u don't know that in parts of , at least, Ontario, unemployment is high ie. Essex county, 9.7% Chatham-Kent 9.7 % and both were/is represented both Tories federally, I think London On is high also, Shady may know but the point is there's people out there that need help and if u don't consider yourself very lucky.

There. You got me. I couldn't resist.

Trudeau is helping the middle class by offering a few hundred bucks in tax breaks.

Your post has nothing to do with that.

[hitops]

You mean like Scandinavian countries? I guess we should strive for the glorious example of the USA right, with their income inequality, their lower education, lower health averages and life expectancy, higher crime etc?

Scandinavian countries largely have monoculturual, white, educated populations. If you find a group of scandinavian descent in Canada or the US, they are doing great too. Those countries are also strongly anti-immigration.

[hitops]

Gee. How come we don't take more money from people with no money?

Gee. What does that have to do with your point?

[hitops]

So is buying a Porsche.

Bad analogy. You can't buy half a Porsche. You can use half the TFSA limit, or a quarter of it, or whatever amount you want. Hence why few can buy a Porsche, but anyone can use a TFSA.

But your logic and that analogy is even more flawed; Following it, we would conclude that we should also ban the sale of Porsches, since some people can only afford a Kia.

Or how poorly you understood a fairly simple statement and concluded something that stupid from it.

Keep on backpeddling. You said it, not me.

Perhaps, but the wealthiest 20% has seen their income grow faster than any other part of the population over the last 20 years. They've received, we can say, more than their fair share over that period.

No we can't, because we do not know what 'fair share' means. I could say that you have earned your fair share, and should pay at least 20% more in taxes, since somebody somewhere is struggling more than you.

Wealthiest 20%? Wealthiest 10%, 1%, 0.01? There is nothing in common between those groups. Even just the 1%....Lives are the bottom of the 1% would be unrecognizable to those at the top of the 1%. They have nothing in common. Grouping them together as a target is senseless.

Like most of the pedestrian logic you've managed to cobble together for this argument. /yawn

This is not an argument. It is just your emotions.

and you entirely lack perspective. I suppose you grew up in a rough neighborhood with an uneducated single parent who worked night shift and you had 3 siblings...Right?

2 siblings. Reasonable neighborhood-ish. Not all night shifts, about 50/50. Otherwise yep.

Talk about infantile logic. Owe others? If you're the Lucky Sperm you're the Lucky Sperm. It can't be understated how much easier it is for people growing up in an upper-class family with a stay-at-home mom and a Dad who's pulling in $150+ every year. It really, really can't. You're so out of touch it's sad.

Well I didn't grow up that way so what is your point exactly?

Edited October 24, 2015 by hitops

[hitops]

We were talking about progressive taxes. I have no idea what this is about.

Well according to you, since it is not a big deal for some people to pay more, it is fine that they should. Of course....this would never apply to you, would it?

[hitops]

From my perspective, I've already paid more taxes based on my income to support society. And now the middle class want even more? That's like saying thanks to someone who gives you $100 and then asking for more.

The entitlement bewilders me.

That's exactly what it is like. It is not enough until the person demanding it, feels it is. Which of course means, it will never be enough.

[poochy]

Maybe someone of u don't know that in parts of , at least, Ontario, unemployment is high ie. Essex county, 9.7% Chatham-Kent 9.7 % and both were/is represented both Tories federally, I think London On is high also, Shady may know but the point is there's people out there that need help and if u don't consider yourself very lucky.

They should help themselves. I am not to blame for thier trouble, nor are they responsible for my success. There is always someone somewhere who needs help, why is it that you get to decide how much help they deserve? Where does it end? If i leave my job today how much help do you owe me?

[Icebound]

Your assuming your cost of living is the same as mine. I'd like to buy a detached house, with a two car garage, in the suburbs. That will run me around $800,000.

I don't eat out, I don't go shopping for anything I don't need to, neither does my wife. $200K for both people (my wife is a contract teacher right now), is nothing in the GTA. Please don't tell me I don't struggle.

Agreed. Anyone making less than someone else complains and says they're entitled to their money, and the person making more isn't entitled to it.

I know people who easily clear $400,000. I don't think for a second their money should be in my pocket.

A couple of things....

One is that your point quite clearly shows why it is kind of ridiculous to tax based on income. I know people in the GTA suburbs who live quite comfortably on 60K for a couple, have 2 cars and a 4-bedroom detached house. And they even take the occasional trip. But they already OWN the house, probably have a pretty good portfolio built up over the last 30 years, their other expenses are minimal, their income is guaranteed, AND, of course, their tax bill is small.

Taxing wealth makes way more sense than taxing income, for a whole bunch of reasons, but nobody has the political will to do it.

Or scrap income taxes and increase the HST. Even that makes more sense.

Even better is the Financial Transaction Tax.... which would get a lot of the HST that is now lost to the "cash transaction" market. ...maybe we would ALL pay less tax.

The second point is that we keep thinking about taxes in terms of "from my pocket to somebody else's pocket".... when in fact it is from everybody's pocket..... to pay for the Canadian Infrastructure that we need / want. It is just a matter of how to divvy the bill fairly.

And thats what makes the FTT so attractive.... I don't care what you make or how much money you have.... but if you move it in and out banks, stocks, properties, etc., I will take out a teeny teeny percentage every time and will make enough to run the country, and you will barely even feel it.

[poochy]

Well I didn't grow up that way so what is your point exactly?

Neither did i, i remember my father breaking up wooden furntiure to burn in the woodstove just to keep us from freezing, but hey, i guess i was just one of those lucky sperm, what garbage. I left home, got educated, borrowed to do it, and now work hard to support myself, my family and my parents, but that's right, those of us who do that are all just lucky.

Some of you can consider this point, and I know it's not something we are allowed to say in this, everyone gets a ribbon society we have, but maybe some of us are just better, that's life, you don't deserve to be compensated for your failings, live within your abilites and your means.

O but you WANT more, it's just not fair, you deserve everything I have, or anyone else has, or they deserve less just so you don't feel so inferior, that's what much of this comes down to, petty jealousy. I pay taxes without much complaint, but the fact is i am not rich, I don't travel much, I have bills, even those student loans i took on aren't gone yet, and when someone tells me that even more of my money is more deserved by strangers than it is by my own, well they can go to hell.

Edited October 24, 2015 by poochy