maplesyrup Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Former G.I.'s, Ordered to War, Fight Not to Go Army has encountered resistance from more than 2,000 former soldiers it has ordered back to military work, complicating its efforts to fill gaps in the regular troops.Many of these former soldiers - some of whom say they have not trained, held a gun, worn a uniform or even gone for a jog in years - object to being sent to Iraq and Afghanistan now, after they thought they were through with life on active duty. They are seeking exemptions, filing court cases or simply failing to report for duty, moves that will be watched closely by approximately 110,000 other members of the Individual Ready Reserve, a corps of soldiers who are no longer on active duty but still are eligible for call-up. I wonder if these people realised what they were in for when they initially signed up for military service in the United States. I highly doubt it. I think we had better prepare for a lot of US citizens coming up to Canada, maybe sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrustyKidd Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 I think we should realize that proportionately, fifty times more of our people are heading down there annually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Machine Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 If they draft, they should get the poor so they aren't on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 If they draft, they should get the poor so they aren't on the street. Mein Obergruppenführer, we can simply put the poor and other undesirables into the camps........ There won't be a US draft, for the simple reason that the US army doesn't want draftees, they want professional soldiers.....they learnt the lesson associated with a drafted army during Vietnam. Also, alot of the current shortfalls (in terms of numbers) are being addressed by bringing a large amount of the soldiers back from Germany and South Korea to rejuvinate SOCOM. With that said, I have no doubt in my mind that there will be an increase in recuritment adds for the Army, army reserves and national guards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Also, alot of the current shortfalls (in terms of numbers) are being addressed by bringing a large amount of the soldiers back from Germany and South Korea to rejuvinate SOCOM.The following web site provides data:heritage.org The plan will withdraw 70,000 troops from Europe and Asia, continuÂing the departure from the Cold War stance of 1950–1990. My favourite example is Iceland with 1600 US troops. Iceland has no military of its own and the Icelandic government wants the US soldiers to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted November 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 If they draft, they should get the poor so they aren't on the street. I have a better idea. Why not draft the rich who make these decisions to go to war? Anybody who promotes, encourages, or believes in war should go and definitely be place on the front lines. In other words walk the talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawasakm Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 If they draft, they should get the poor so they aren't on the street. The poor are already well represented. They have greater incentive to join the army - pay, education, improved prospects etc. If you are prepared to have the government pay money to train "the poor on the streets" as soldiers to get them off the street then why not have the government draft them into the workforce? Building roads and infrastructure or what have you. Its been done before to some effect. With the bonus that they won't get shot at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terrible Sweal Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 With the bonus that they won't get shot at. I think you've diametrically misinterpreted the motivations involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Or we could make all of the illegal Mexicans volunteer in exchange for citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Landed immigrents are allowed to join the forces, and in doing so, are granted citizenship faster.......Jeez, IIRC, something like 15k Canadians joined the US armed forces during the Vietnam war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theloniusfleabag Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Dear Stoker, There won't be a US draft, for the simple reason that the US army doesn't want draftees, they want professional soldiers.....Indeed. The purpose of a draft is to swell the ranks of the cannon fodder. Then, while the enemy is engaged in slaughtering the front ranks, the professional soldiers can employ their superior tactics and weaponry to win the battle.The draft would only be used if the US expects a 'set piece' battle ala WWII, or, more likely, if they plan to be at war for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Indeed. The purpose of a draft is to swell the ranks of the cannon fodder. Then, while the enemy is engaged in slaughtering the front ranks, the professional soldiers can employ their superior tactics and weaponry to win the battle.The draft would only be used if the US expects a 'set piece' battle ala WWII, or, more likely, if they plan to be at war for a long time. I disagree, modern armed forces rely more on the brains of an individual soldier, than the brawn. As for "separating" the professional soldier from that of the draftee, thats incorrect, the drafted soldiers were used to fill the spots of the professionals that were lost in combat......this in turn led to lower moral, cohesiveness and overall ability of the said formations. (Case in point Vietnam) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knave Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 I have a better idea. Why not draft the rich who make these decisions to go to war? Anybody who promotes, encourages, or believes in war should go and definitely be place on the front lines. In other words walk the talk. That was Rangel's (D-NY) mode of thinking when he proposed the latest draft bill, that was defeated (402-2) shortly before the US Prez election. He ended up voting against his own bill. Many people pointed to Rangel's bill and said it was an attempt by Bush to reinstate the draft - when in fact it was a bill proposed by a group of Democrats. Some were pretty slow correcting the error. Honestly, the US military opposes a draft. They have an all-volunteer force which is the best-trained and equipped in the world, and has, overall, a high level of morale amongst its troops. Introducing a bunch of college-age kids who don't want to be there would be poisonous to the troops' morale and would ultimately undermine their mission, and likely get more of them killed in the process. See: Vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemes Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Actually, the US may have to reintroduce the draft, especially if the Iraq and Afganistan situations does not improve quickly and even more so if Bush does decide to go into Iran. One thing Viet nam, Iraq and Afganistan has demonstrated aptly is that you can have all the high tech weaponery and systems, but it is still boots on the ground that win wars. If you cannot control the ground from an infantry POV, then you will lose the war. And right now the US Army does not have enough grunts to secure either Iraq and Afganistan. Nepolian had it right, God favours the army with the biggest battilions. The US places far too much reliance on high tech wiz bang expensive systems and equipment...what they should be concentrating on is acquiring and training more of your basic grunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knave Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Actually, the US may have to reintroduce the draft, especially if the Iraq and Afganistan situations does not improve quickly and even more so if Bush does decide to go into Iran. I'm not so sure. Much of the ISAF force in Afghanistan is made up of non-US troops - including Canadians. The American role there is mostly in 'mopping up' and chasing after the stragglers of al-Queda and the Taliban. Iraq is a different playing field, though. But, as was mentioned before, the US is withdrawing troops from Europe, as well as in East Asia (with reduced committments in Korea and Japan), and that frees up substancial forces for possible rotation through Iraq. A large number of Army and Marine reserve units have still not been activated. Recruiting officers have said that they have noticed a drop in enlistment numbers than, say, the period immediately after 9/11, but they're still well within their quotas and necessary replacement numbers. As I said before, the military itself doesn't see a need for a draft and actually opposes it, because it would lower the overall quality of their troops. I agree that the war in Iraq will be won with boots on the ground, but maintaining a high quality of soldier is necessary, especially in Iraq. And, the quantity of available US troops (Army, Marines and National Guard units) is far larger than what is currently deployed in either of the two countries right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Nice to see that the idiots still believe a Draft is coming! You still got your tin foil hats ON? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Machine Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 If you don't like the draft, you can always go to Canada. We welcome people of all draft dodgers. We need more people in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I disagree, modern armed forces rely more on the brains of an individual soldier, than the brawn. What professional soldiers ; they are a bunch of scared trigger happy kids being sent to Iraq. The professionals are sitting safe and sound in the pentagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawasakm Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 What professional soldiers ; they are a bunch of scared trigger happy kids being sent to Iraq. The professionals are sitting safe and sound in the pentagon. That strikes me as being a little oversimplified caesar. I agree that most are young enough that they could be considered 'kids'. Scared? They may well be but that doesn't mean their fear is controlling them. 'Trigger happy' gives me some problems too. I don't like the civilian death count but I don't think they just shoot at everything that moves. And they do receive a substantial amount of training and are well equipped - I believe they should be considered as professional soldiers. As to your comment about the proffessionals being in the Pentagon - well I'd have to agree that alot of the policy makers, the 'movers and shakers' in the military are there. They are professional in different areas of the military I would think. That doesn't preclude the 'grunts' from being proffesional in theirs. The place where I see the lack of 'proffesionalism' is in the position of executive power. Bush has questionable integrity and alot of his justifications for actions don't tally up that well for me. Basically if the overall situation reeks of being 'unprofessional' then it is because of the executive ordering it, not the professionals carrying those orders out (taking into account that there will still be incompetent individuals amongst this body aswell). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nameless Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Reinstituting the draft would be political suicide for the republicans. I'm still a bit skeptical, so we'll see what happens over the course of the next few years. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.