eyeball Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 We didn't fight for noble principles like "human rights" or "democracy". Right, I forgot...you'll have to forgive me I was brainwashed by my teachers in school. Human right's, democracy and noble principles are neither here nor there. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Thing is, if we didn't sell them the weapons somebody else would, including Russia, who couldn't give a damn about human rights abuses. Also, if we don't trade with regimes with poor human rights records then we wouldn't be trading with anyone in the developing world or even the developed world for that matter...and forget about China. Capitalism is a race to the bottom. for better or worse. We also have to remember that Canada's foreign policy under this gov doesn't give a crap about human rights. You are right, someone else would sell them weapons. And you are correct that Canada's foreign policy does not give a crap about human rights. So much for taking the high road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) But this is why we become more of a threat from Islamic terrorism. We help Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Bahrain suppress uprisings by those who want freedom and then take out leaders of other nations for the same reasons (Hussein, Taliban, Gadaffi, Assad) So why has Saudi Arabia not been invaded yet? Yes it would mean more destabilization in the region. There are many here with obvious double standards while carrying forward a certain agenda through very tired government propaganda rhetoric. All while calling everyone else teste-less. Which does not sound very man-like or gentlemen-like in any way. It's just downright f'n obnoxious. Just because you got balls between your legs, does not make you a man. Edited September 28, 2015 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Such short memories north of the border. Let's dial in the WABAC Machine to 1996 and Canada's resumed armed sales to Indonesia: Canada Trades 'Do-Gooder' Image for Weapons Sales Critics such as Webster and Epps cite with dismay Canada's policy reversal on trade with Indonesia, which has repressed dissent in East Timor, a neighboring land that Indonesia invaded in 1975 and later annexed. When more than 100 East Timorese demonstrators were killed by government troops in 1991, the Canadian government of then-Prime Minister Brian Mulroney cut off arms sales. The Chretien administration, elected in October 1993, approved the resumption of defense shipments to Indonesia in 1994, resulting in sales of nearly $1 million worth of military aircraft. Chretien has made two trade-promoting visits to Jakarta in the last 16 months. Overall, Canadian-Indonesian trade was more than $738 million in 1994. http://articles.latimes.com/1996-02-14/news/mn-35871_1_weapons-sales ...must be election season in Canada. Edited September 28, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Right, I forgot...you'll have to forgive me I was brainwashed by my teachers in school. Human right's, democracy and noble principles are neither here nor there. Got it. I never said that. I'm just saying the reality of realpolitik. Do you think anyone would have attacked Nazi Germany if they didn't attack any other country first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I imagine Chamberlain smiling and rolling his eyes. I also think about everything I was taught to believe about how noble the sacrifice our grand and great grandparents was when fighting tyranny and imagine they're rolling in the graves at our mockery of the principles they died for. Even if we were to accept the Just War Theory in the case of Hitler and WWII, let's see you make the case that any of these more recent wars fit the designation of 'Just War'. It seems everyone with a just war argument can only come up with Hitler for some reason! What we have now is a cascading effect of wars causing more wars. Want to end war: ban the international sale and export of weapons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I agree with Freddy. If we don't make the sale, someone else will. Better to have the Saudis as our buyers than let them cozy up to the Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Even if we were to accept the Just War Theory in the case of Hitler and WWII, let's see you make the case that any of these more recent wars fit the designation of 'Just War'. It seems everyone with a just war argument can only come up with Hitler for some reason! I mentioned Chamberlain because I think he would laugh at our appeasement to our economic interests in arming a dictatorship. What we have now is a cascading effect of wars causing more wars. Notice I mentioned our great grand-pappies. They fought a War to end all War which was indeed commonly taken to be a war to end tyranny and preserve freedom and democracy. Of course the squabbling great powers that helped cause all the tyranny in that war cocked up the peace which led to the 2nd and they've been perpetuating the cascade you mentioned with their squabbling ever since. Want to end war: ban the international sale and export of weapons! You can't. The only way is for principled nations to stop trading and even stop talking with anyone who exports weapons and reasons to use them. Why I mentioned our great grand-pappies and sacrifice should be obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I agree with Freddy. If we don't make the sale, someone else will. Better to have the Saudis as our buyers than let them cozy up to the Chinese. Hey, we cozy up to China too. Who let us do that I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I never said that. I'm just saying the reality of realpolitik. Realpolitik...spit. Do you think anyone would have attacked Nazi Germany if they didn't attack any other country first? I don't think Nazi Germany would have ever emerged if the people who actually did all the dying had anything to say about the peace the great powers they died for cobbled together. They obviously cocked it up as badly as they did the geography of the ME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hey, we cozy up to China too. Who let us do that I wonder? Y'all cozy up to the "warmonger" USA too....big time. We know why.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I agree with Freddy. If we don't make the sale, someone else will. Better to have the Saudis as our buyers than let them cozy up to the Chinese. That makes us better than China when we would do exactly the same as they would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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