cybercoma Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 "More guns means more deaths . . . higher rates of mental illness, on the other hand, did not predict more gun deaths."http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/gun-ownership-gun-deaths-studyLooks like the research disputes your claim that it's about individuals and not access to firearms. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 "More guns means more deaths . . . higher rates of mental illness, on the other hand, did not predict more gun deaths." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/gun-ownership-gun-deaths-study Looks like the research disputes your claim that it's about individuals and not access to firearms. You're cherry picking the study: Although correlation is not the same as causation, it seems conceivable that abundant gun availability facilitates firearm-related deaths. Conversely, high crime rates may instigate widespread anxiety and fear, thereby motivating people to arm themselves and give rise to increased gun ownership, which, in turn, increases availability. The resulting vicious cycle could, bit by bit, lead to the polarized status that is now the case with the US Nor does said study address why various European nations still have similar homicide rates ( homicides of all types) despite varying rates of gun ownership and gun control laws....likewise the dynamic that stymies such studies, the contrast between Australia and New Zealand, one a nation that has very strict gun control laws, versus another that allows its citizens to purchase firearms that aren't even legal in many States in the US, yet both countries have like rates of violent crime........ Guns don't create criminality, fore if they did, the likes of New Zealand, the Czech Republic and Switzerland would be reminiscent of areas of Mexico or Chicago......... Quote
Black Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 So I guess America is just a cesspool full of violent, criminal maniacs. Maybe giving them ready access to guns isn't a great idea, then? Quote
Boges Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Posted September 3, 2015 So I guess America is just a cesspool full of violent, criminal maniacs. Maybe giving them ready access to guns isn't a great idea, then? Way to hate freedom. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 So I guess America is just a cesspool full of violent, criminal maniacs. Maybe giving them ready access to guns isn't a great idea, then? Explain Mexico, a country with far stricter gun control laws than the United States or Canada, yet nearly 5xs the rate of gun crime.......criminality begets gun crime. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 Way to hate freedom. Do think there would be a lucrative black market of guns smuggled into Canada from the States if there were not potential buyers among gangs in Toronto or Greater Vancouver? Quote
Boges Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Posted September 3, 2015 Do think there would be a lucrative black market of guns smuggled into Canada from the States if there were not potential buyers among gangs in Toronto or Greater Vancouver? Dont you know that the black market for guns would evaporate if we just legalized all drugs and had a $15/hour minimum wage? Quote
Black Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 Explain Mexico, a country with far stricter gun control laws than the United States or Canada, yet nearly 5xs the rate of gun crime.......criminality begets gun crime. Saying criminality begets gun crime is like saying cars begat drunk driving. Giving criminals or the seriously mentally ill (though those people are still far more likely to hurt themselves than others despite you and the NRA's attempt to scapegoat them) easy access to guns is a dumb idea. Quote
Black Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 Dont you know that the black market for guns would evaporate if we just legalized all drugs and had a $15/hour minimum wage? Well shit, how about no gun control at all? If we can't stop criminals from getting a hold of firearms, why bother at all? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 Dont you know that the black market for guns would evaporate if we just legalized all drugs and had a $15/hour minimum wage? It might very well if both policies reduced crime rates via tackling some of the root causes of crime.........I doubt Molson and Labatt have arsenals of illegal guns to protect their market share, likewise, I doubt an allure to joining a gang if one can afford the high cost of living through a decent wage. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 Saying criminality begets gun crime is like saying cars begat drunk driving. Giving criminals or the seriously mentally ill (though those people are still far more likely to hurt themselves than others despite you and the NRA's attempt to scapegoat them) easy access to guns is a dumb idea. Explain New Zealand..........How does "The World's largest gun store" create crime in New Zealand? Quote
Canada_First Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 If this didn't happen on TV, it wouldn't even register. Another day, another gun massacre. When a black murders someone is that a massacre too? Quote
Black Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Explain New Zealand..........How does "The World's largest gun store" create crime in New Zealand? I can see you're missing the point or being intentionally disingenuous as per usual. But hey, you got your obligatory gun porn post in, so kudos. Edited September 3, 2015 by Black Dog Quote
Black Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 When a black murders someone is that a massacre too? You are aware this guy in Virginia who shot these folks on TV was black, right? Quote
Canada_First Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 The difference is also the 'gun culture'. Does anyone need the definition of 'gun culture' explained to them? I own guns but have yet to murder anyone or go on a rampage. Even though I've been slighted plenty of times in my life. I must be doing it wrong. Since I su rely thought that once I owned a gun I'd turn into a blood thirsty killer... Quote
Canada_First Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 You are aware this guy in Virginia who shot these folks on TV was black, right? I'm aware of everything. I meant when a normal ghettoized black shoots another black drug dealer. You're right I should've been more clear. Just another ho hum day. In other words who cares? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 I can see you're missing the point or being intentionally disingenuous as per usual. But hey, you got your obligatory gun porn post in, so kudos. I didn't miss the point at all, likewise the link to the New Zealand store, a store that sells guns not available in most States and at prices far cheaper then in the States where they are........hence, guns are available in New Zealand, yet New Zealand doesn't have anywhere near the same rates of crime as the United States.......hence guns don't create crime. Quote
cybercoma Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 I'm aware of everything. I meant when a normal ghettoized black shoots another black drug dealer. You're right I should've been more clear. Just another ho hum day. In other words who cares? A normal ghettoized black, eh? Racist much? Quote
Black Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) I didn't miss the point at all, likewise the link to the New Zealand store, a store that sells guns not available in most States and at prices far cheaper then in the States where they are........hence, guns are available in New Zealand, yet New Zealand doesn't have anywhere near the same rates of crime as the United States.......hence guns don't create crime. Piss-poor logic here. New Zealand doesn't have the same crime rates...or the same gun laws, the same culture etc etc. The point, again, since I obviously need to spell it out for you, is that easy access to firearms substantially increases the lethality of crime. Hence the disparity in homicide rates between the U.S. and comparable nations. Guns don't turn normal folks into criminals. But they turn muggers into murderers, suicide attempts into suicide statistics. Bang on about the root causes of these things all you want, but it's absolutely foolish to suggest you can solve crime/poverty and mental health issues in America especially and not consider the role of guns. Edited September 3, 2015 by Black Dog Quote
cybercoma Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 I didn't miss the point at all, likewise the link to the New Zealand store, a store that sells guns not available in most States and at prices far cheaper then in the States where they are........hence, guns are available in New Zealand, yet New Zealand doesn't have anywhere near the same rates of crime as the United States.......hence guns don't create crime. Yeah, but America does. Quote
Canada_First Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 If the US spent half as much time, money, and effort addressing gun violence as they did terrorism or even drugs, the problem would be solved. Is terrorism problem solved? Quote
Canada_First Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 A normal ghettoized black, eh? Racist much? Ghettos in Toronto are largely black areas. This isn't news. Nor is it racist to point it out. Just a fact.So when your run of the mill ghettoized black guns down a rival drug dealer do we talk about it? If not why not? Why is this special? Quote
cybercoma Posted September 3, 2015 Report Posted September 3, 2015 "run of the mill ghettoized black" Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted September 4, 2015 Report Posted September 4, 2015 Piss-poor logic here. New Zealand doesn't have the same crime rates...or the same gun laws, the same culture etc etc. Wait a minute.........I thought you said crime rates were driven by access to guns? And gun laws? The legal sale and ownership of automatic weapons in the United States requires a tax stamp and going through the FBI's NICS check, through an FFL dealer.....versus in New Zealand a requirement for a safety course and obtaining a license....in both cases, an extensive background check is required..... And "gun culture"? I would say the gun culture in tiny New Zealand is quite strong if they have the "World's largest gun store", and legal access to even more types of firearms then even Americans....... The only "piss-poor logic" here is yours. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 4, 2015 Report Posted September 4, 2015 I suspect the gun totters will be behodin' to the same mentality of Charlton Heston fame. Thankfully in Canada we are smarter, and maybe the US will catch on when they finally get tired of watching ad hearing about such things as just occurred in Virginia. Quote
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