Leaders debate Aug 6

[waldo]

You can wait all you want, I never made any such claim.

so... when you said:

It is bizarre how that game is played. If it's bad, it's your fault. If it's good, it's something that you had no part in.

you weren't lamenting over the/your presumed interpretation that Harper Conservatives get no credit for having something (significant, or otherwise) to do with Canada's emission levels... cause you were replying in the context of the discussion being held, right?

.

Edited August 8, 2015 by waldo

[PrimeNumber]

some of that is concerted efforts to go after the Harper "Unfair Elections Act". Notwithstanding the promises of First Nations chiefs/spokespersons to mobilize a voting force/block never seen before... if that actually transpires, some analysts predict a significant number of close seats being impacted.

.

Just like how good old Brad Wall got the Hutterite community leaders on his side. In these types of communities the leader tells everyone they're heading to town and who to vote for. Small voter groups can sway very close ridings.

[-1=e^ipi]

Although this seems like it could work, who would collect this tax? The UN? Or would it require an agreement by individual national governments around the world? Where would the revenue go?

I'm not sure where the revenue would go. Do you keep it in the country that collected the tax? Do you use it to redistribute wealth to poor countries? Do you use it to fund research and development? Do you use it to help countries adapt to climate change? Do you use it to spend on geoengineering projects such as adding aerosols to the atmosphere or removing excess CO2 from the environment?

There would still be a lot up for negotiation. However, I will point out that if you let individual countries collect their revenues and keep it within their own countries then there is an incentive for countries to find loopholes in the international agreements and cheat by subsidizing companies or sectors of the economy that emit lots of CO2 with the tax revenue collected from the CO2 tax. For example, China may have a CO2 tax... but happen to also have a subsidy for power companies, which conveniently happens to primarily affect coal plants, and coincidentally equally offsets the CO2 emission tax these coal plants would be expected to pay.

[Argus]

At the same debate the PM inadvertently confirms the country is in recession - the second under his watch - and it raises the obvious question - why wasn't Harper ready?

Given neither was his fault in any way, why has the fact it was 'the second under his watch' become something the NDP thinks is a valid accusation?

[Argus]

I find it interesting that Trudeau kept bringing up his 3 children when talking about climate change.

Isn't population growth one of the reasons fossil fuel emissions are going to increase over the coming decades?

He's also vowed to increase immigration.

[Argus]

you've already been apprised of the voluntary initiatives taken by both China and India... you've already been apprised of the agreements made between the U.S. and China/India, as precursors to the Paris COP... whether or not an outcome of that directly results in... or ultimately leads to a legally binding emission reduction agreement. You have nothing concrete to offer to support any of the repeat (unsubstantiated) statements you continue to make!

Oh yes, I've been 'advised' that India and China kind of agree that one day, far in the future, they'll consider taking steps which will in some way perhaps curtail the increase in their emissions. It's easy to talk. It's even easy to sign a solemn agreement as Chretien did, and then do absolutely nothing about it.

[Argus]

you clearly know nothing about what the Liberal party did in moving to meet Canada's Kyoto obligations...

Hardly surprising since they did nothing...

[Argus]

citation request

Mr. Mulcair said an NDP government would support a cap-and-trade approach to carbon emissions that is in line with the program already in place in Quebec.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/energy-sector-wants-clearer-environmental-rules-mulcair-says/article24916946/

http://globalnews.ca/video/1937800/federal-liberals-applaud-wynnes-cap-and-trade-plan-for-ontario

Edited August 8, 2015 by Argus

[Shady]

Oh yes, I've been 'advised' that India and China kind of agree that one day, far in the future, they'll consider taking steps which will in some way perhaps curtail the increase in their emissions. It's easy to talk. It's even easy to sign a solemn agreement as Chretien did, and then do absolutely nothing about it.

He's already admitted he cares mostly about substance. And yes, several years from now, after more jobs leave for India and China, they'll promise some slight reduction. Probably after technology has already changed to non fossil fuels.

[Shady]

Hardly surprising since they did nothing...

Exactly. They did nothing.

[Argus]

but, once again, we have all these Harper apologists reaching for the 'first recession' as a ready go-to to explain the failed Harper economic plans

You don't think having recessions puts a damper on the economy?

And I remind you that we've come through the big one pretty darned well compared to just about anyone else.

[Argus]

spoken like the uber-partisan you are!

Pot, kettle.

[Shady]

You don't think having recessions puts a damper on the economy?

And I remind you that we've come through the big one pretty darned well compared to just about anyone else.

You'd be hard pressed to get an answer out of the Harper haters as to how his policies contributed to the 2008 housing bubble. How his policies contributed to Greece's debt crisis, etc. I didn't know a slight cut in the GST was that powerful! Maybe it'll take down Russia too! Lol!

[On Guard for Thee]

You'd be hard pressed to get an answer out of the Harper haters as to how his policies contributed to the 2008 housing bubble. How his policies contributed to Greece's debt crisis, etc. I didn't know a slight cut in the GST was that powerful! Maybe it'll take down Russia too! Lol!

Apparently Harper didn't realize how powerful/damaging a 2% cut in gst was either. Isn't he supposed to be an economist?

[Bryan]

you weren't lamenting over the/your presumed interpretation that Harper Conservatives get no credit for having something (significant, or otherwise) to do with Canada's emission levels..

No I wasn't. I was commenting on how the opposition game is played (regardless of the topic).

[Smallc]

Apparently Harper didn't realize how powerful/damaging a 2% cut in gst was either.

Imagine how the economy would have suffered without that boost from the government, eh?

[On Guard for Thee]

Imagine how the economy would have suffered without that boost from the government, eh?

Imagine how our debt load wouldn't have skyrocketed without that "boost" from the government.

[Shady]

Apparently Harper didn't realize how powerful/damaging a 2% cut in gst was either. Isn't he supposed to be an economist?

Please explain how it damaged the economy?

[Shady]

Lefties = a slight tax decrease damages the economy.

Lefties = a slight tax increase is no big deal.

Interesting logic.

[On Guard for Thee]

Please explain how it damaged the economy?

Because all it did was allow retailers to increase profit margins, and it drove the debt through the roof.

[Shady]

Because all it did was allow retailers to increase profit margins, and it drove the debt through the roof.

How did it allow for increased profit margins? Are increased profit margins bad for the economy? How did the slight debt increase impact the economy?

[Shady]

Do retailers pay federal taxes on their profits?

[On Guard for Thee]

How did it allow for increased profit margins? Are increased profit margins bad for the economy? How did the slight debt increase impact the economy?

Surely you can figure out the math on profit margin, and do you really think 14 billion in one year is a "slight" debt increase?

[jbg]

I don't know. I was pretty surprised that he 1) admitted the country is in a recession when his finance minister has been saying it's not, and 2) admitted that the PMO interferes in Senate votes. I'm sure those things are only really interesting to political wonks, but they were surprising chinks in the armour.

On both points a bit of honesty perhaps. As far as the recession goes, oil is important to Canada's economy but the economy is still mixed enough to survive a price dip. The transition may feel a bit like a recession.

I'm betting his creepy forced smile turned off a lot of people. He really needs to stop doing that.

I assume the country has gotten used to his mannerisms by now. Lord knows Nixon and Bush II had their share.

Honestly, I believe Trudeau's attack on Mulcair here will not only hurt the Liberals in Quebec, but also make the rest of Canada question why Trudeau's bringing up secession when literally no one else is talking about it. It's been 20 years since the referendum. More importantly, Mulcair's record is clear on this. He was there fighting on the front lines fighting to keep the country together. Mulcair's stance, if people are willing to look into it, is the same as the rules for the Scottish referendum and the same as the rules for the Newfoundland referendum that brought them into Confederation. Trudeau thinks he's got something on Mulcair, but at the end of the day it just looks bad on the Liberals that they're stoking secessionist flames for votes, imo.

I suspect Trudeau is raising the secession issue the same way the post-Civil War Republicans kept "waving the bloody shirt" or making an issue of the Democrats' pushing Southern secession. While Canadians might not be thinking about it it is a good scare to raise.

If Trudeau really wanted to have an impact on the NDP, he would position his party as the only one that can build a bridge between Bay Street and Main Street. He would paint Harper as unbalanced in favour of Bay Street and Mulcair unbalanced in favour of Main Street, both of them being uncompromising and unbalanced in their approaches. Questioning Mulcair's dedication to keeping the country together is a non-starter, as the evidence is out there showing the work he's done to keep the country together. In fact, it makes Trudeau look petty. It makes him look like he's opening old wounds for political gain, when there is a much more effective strategy that could improve the Liberal Party's position and cement their identity as distinct from both the NDP and CPC.

That would be hard for two reasons; one, Trudeau isn't that smart. And two, Harper isn't all that unbalanced.

[Freddy]

per StatsCan July update: "youth unemployment rate rose to 13.2 percent from 12.9 percent in the previous month"... what's Harper waiting for?

First you have to be grown up and be responsible to hold a job. If Trudeau is any indication of what's wrong with today's youth. A couple more years of Harper making fun of him will eventually shape him into a PM.