Doctor-assisted suicide Consultations

[webc5]

They will be starting soon. Will you be lobbying any MP's?

[Guest]

Phew. At least I don't have to suffer, if and when the time comes.

If any MP asks, I'll tell them to make it quick, cheap and easy.

[Hal 9000]

I won't lobby the MP's, but there are a few posters here that I'll lobby for.

[Big Guy]

Our Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the process, our government disagrees so our government decides to create a panel to advise the Harper government on what to do next. Good idea - get an impartial point of view and allow these impartial 3 members of the panel to hear from deputations from around Canada.

Except - two of the three people on this advisory panel had already testified before the Supreme Court supporting the government position and the Court rejected their views.

Looks to me like this is a waste of time and money when this "advisory" panel, has already been stacked by pro-government shills.

How stupid does this government think that we are?

[Ash74]

As a guy that is going to vote for the conservatives because the other choices are shared poverty (NDP) and sniffing gas fumes (Liberals).

Left side wants to kill everything cept the murderers and the right side wants to save everybody cept the murderers.

Always baffled me.... Anyways I do agree this is just a waste of money and stalling.

[Freddy]

As a guy that is going to vote for the conservatives because the other choices are shared poverty (NDP) and sniffing gas fumes (Liberals).

Left side wants to kill everything cept the murderers and the right side wants to save everybody cept the murderers.

Always baffled me.... Anyways I do agree this is just a waste of money and stalling.

I'm the same, all the corruption everyone's talking about it petty small stuff. I doubt any NDP or Liberal majority government would have less corruption.

[On Guard for Thee]

As a guy that is going to vote for the conservatives because the other choices are shared poverty (NDP) and sniffing gas fumes (Liberals).

Left side wants to kill everything cept the murderers and the right side wants to save everybody cept the murderers.

Always baffled me.... Anyways I do agree this is just a waste of money and stalling.

I wonder if you could unpack this nonsense a bit so the rest of us could get some sort of hint as to what you are on about.

[Ash74]

I wonder if you could unpack this nonsense a bit so the rest of us could get some sort of hint as to what you are on about.

My point was it baffles me that the conservatives are big on the pro life and pro capital punishment. Also against doctor assisted suicide.

The Left is pro choice and pro assisted suicide and against capital punishment.

Now I am a conservative that believes less government is better and I do lean towards pro choice and doctor assisted suicide while I also cannot agree with the value of killing a person when life in jail is a more civilized measure.

I do not agree with the NDP on most political views but admire their stance and generally seem determined to do the right thing. I respect that.

I have no respect for the Liberals. None. Since 2003 and I have lived with the Ontario Liberals and watched as failure after lie after cover up and scandal while the Federal Liberals stood beside McGuinty and Wynne clapping away all proud.

[Topaz]

I don't think anyone is going to FORCE anyone to doctor-assisted suicide or maybe called it "last freedom". It all about "CHOICE" the freedom to chose if one chooses to. All these people who keep saying people are going to be force, is a bunch of ****! It's a law for people who don't want to just exists, they want to be able to live and function as a normal person and If my health doesn't let ME do that then please give ME the CHOICE to decide when to leave this world.

[Evening Star]

My point was it baffles me that the conservatives are big on the pro life and pro capital punishment. Also against doctor assisted suicide.

The Left is pro choice and pro assisted suicide and against capital punishment.

This might describe the US better than Canada. The CPC has not made any moves towards criminalizing abortion or bringing back the death penalty, really. And the NDP has not been especially gung-ho about assisted suicide. In fact, that issue does not really seem to be a partisan one. Last year, a Conservative MP proposed a bill overturning the ban which was opposed by both NDP and CPC MPs. (I tend to agree with Angus myself, btw.) In 2009, MPs of most parties except the BQ voted against a bill to legalize assisted suicide. Currently, it is mainly the Liberals and Greens who have strong positions in favour of legalization.

Edit: Also, it's worth remembering that there are many in the disability community, who are not necessarily right-wing, who oppose AS, on the grounds that it sets a double standard for the value of a disabled person's life. (Hyatt's argument in the link is one that I find convincing, too.)

Edited July 18, 2015 by Evening Star

[Guest]

Those in the disability community have as little right to dictate my choices to me as those in any other community.

[Big Guy]

What I find frustrating is the process that this government is using to play politics with our judicial system.

In the past, any government considering legislation would refer it to the Supreme Court for advice as to its constitutionality or a "white paper" to elicit public opinion. This government is not made up of stupid people. They paly to their Conservative base by passing right wing legislation that they know will please their base. They also know that it will not pass the objectivity of the Supreme Court so they will never have to implement that legislation. This process is a waste of valuable time and resources.

So far, the government has been judged to have tried to pass unconstitutional legislation on mandatory minimum for gun crimes, assisted suicide, aboriginal title, time served sentencing, Senate reform, prostitution and a Supreme Court nomination. That does not indicate a government that understands our Constitution.

[hitops]

As a doc, the problem is the slippery slope towards the state gaining the authority to force docs to provide the service to anyone who wants it. I never want to be involved in that, and for now I do not have to be. But at some point no doubt, somebody will say if the government pays you, they get to tell you what to do. It is a huge potential problem.

[Evening Star]

Those in the disability community have as little right to dictate my choices to me as those in any other community.

Well, why is assisted suicide OK for the incurably ill but not for anyone else? Is this not a double standard? A young man whose girlfriend left him may well feel that his suffering is intolerable but it would be a crime for someone to assist him to commit suicide safely and effectively. Resources would be marshalled in that case to keep him from doing so, even if it possible that he would spend the rest of his life with depression. Where is the line? Why is his life more worth preserving than that of a person with incurable chronic physical pain? If your position is a more 'libertarian' view that EVERYONE should have the choice and the support to commit suicide if that is their preference, then I could respect that as a consistent view. (I might even be persuaded towards this position.) However, this seems to be a pretty rare position on the issue.

I am genuinely interested in these questions and am not 100% committed to a position yet.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't think it's at all realistic to equate someone going through the break up of a relationship, and someone suffering with, say, terminal stage 4 cancer. I am sure most of us have suffered through the former, at least once, and gotten over it after a few tears and maybe some sleepless nights, etc. In any case, that pain isn't going to kill you. The latter of course will. I can see some doctors having moral/ethical misgivings with being involved, so they could refer a patient to a colleague if it came down to it. I think it is well known that terminal patients have often been essentially put out of their misery, (for want of a better phrase) by simply turning up the taps on the painkiller, but of course by that time they are so far out of it the can't any longer make decisions for themselves, especially under the criteria required under this law.

[Evening Star]

Where is the line for you, then? Pain that "can kill you", i.e. terminal illness? Because that is actually a different line than what the Supreme Court decided, which is that DAS is acceptable for people suffering from incurable, not necessarily terminal, illness. Or does the criterion have to do with whether other people have gone through the problem and managed to get over it? There are certainly people who have suffered serious incurable illnesses and still led meaningful and highly productive lives as well, e.g. Stephen Hawking. The difference might have to do with the supports that are available to the afflicted person - perhaps we need to look at the support and assistance we provide in terms of the quality of life of the disabled before we consider whether to help them commit suicide?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Evening Star

[On Guard for Thee]

For me, I guess going through suffering that I knew was going to kill me eventually with no hope left from medicine. More to the point, the reason the SCC put a 12 month period in place for the government to come up with criteria that respects the charter. They seem to be dragging their feet, probably because they just don't like yet another smack down from the court. They ought to get their heads out of the sand before those months click by and the SCC ruling will stand as written

[The_Squid]

The panel appointed by the government to conduct the public consultations has two of the three members who argued against assisted-suicide in the SCC case.

That tells me that this "consultation" will have a definite bias, and may turn out to be a complete farce.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/doctor-assisted-suicide-panel-includes-original-crown-witnesses-1.3157361

"Two of the members of the panel, while well-respected people in their fields, were witnesses for the Crown in this case against us, were people [who] have been vociferous, loud opponents of physician-assisted dying, publicly, all the way through, and were part of the government's case against this. So we're really disappointed with the composition."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/peter-mackay-defends-doctor-assisted-dying-panel-saying-it-s-not-biased-1.3162595

[webc5]

Are they going to conduct an online poll to see what Canadian attitudes are towards assisted dying? It's important to have nation wide consultations.

[hitops]

Are they going to conduct an online poll to see what Canadian attitudes are towards assisted dying? It's important to have nation wide consultations.

That would just be a poll of people of people who tend to be online a lot.

[Guest]

Well, why is assisted suicide OK for the incurably ill but not for anyone else? Is this not a double standard? A young man whose girlfriend left him may well feel that his suffering is intolerable but it would be a crime for someone to assist him to commit suicide safely and effectively. Resources would be marshalled in that case to keep him from doing so, even if it possible that he would spend the rest of his life with depression. Where is the line? Why is his life more worth preserving than that of a person with incurable chronic physical pain? If your position is a more 'libertarian' view that EVERYONE should have the choice and the support to commit suicide if that is their preference, then I could respect that as a consistent view. (I might even be persuaded towards this position.) However, this seems to be a pretty rare position on the issue.

I am genuinely interested in these questions and am not 100% committed to a position yet.

Actually my view is the one you describe. I believe anyone who wants to should be allowed to end their life. I also believe that any medical professional who wants to help should be allowed to do so without sanction.

[webc5]

Now that the federal election campaign has started it's important to have an adult conversation regarding assisted physician dying. There is a lack of doctors who will know how to deliver this service, it's important to have a plan in place to train these doctors.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Yes I think doctor assisted suicide must become legal for those who are terminally ill and suffering from severe pain and wish to end their sufferings and pain. No damn government (the conservative government) or any damn person (Harper or Peter MacKay) or any damn religious figure or religious organization can decide for me when I wish to end my own life if I am suffering from severe pain and decide to do so.

Edited August 12, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015