Immigration

[Scotty]

The fiercely anti western feeling and all the support for anti American terrorists and the fact that the Persian spring was murdered in infancy and never materialized again relate the events in 1953 to present.

No they relate to JEWS. How can anyone not know that? The ant-American sentiment in the ME is directly tied to the US support for Israel and always has been. Arabs don't give a damn about Iranian history and most don't even know their own country's history, much less Iran's. Pretending there is some relationship between Iran in 1953 and the Arab Spring is nuts.

[Argus]

Although he may not have made his point elegantly, Argus is right. Do we really want this version of diversity integrated into our culture? The upside, as someone already posted, is that this dillutes a great deal with second generation, but by then the damage has already been done.

Much of that is in line with my experiences, though here. Particularly Indian truck drivers. I'd say eastern European truck drivers are almost as bad, though, especially for driving without licenses and ignoring as many rules as they think they can get away with. The countries these people come from are notoriously corrupt and incompetent. No one pays attention to the rules in any of them because such violations, even if caught, get bought off with a small bribe. That includes cheating on your exams and supplying phone references to foreigners.

[Argus]

So, given the topic is actually immigration, I came across another little study on how immigrants are doing lately, after Harper changed the terms to bring in more 'educated' and 'skilled' people. The answer is, not that good. A couple of categories are doing a little better, but overall, there hasn't been much improvement on immigrant fortunes in Canada. Average earnings increased only moderately and.

Unfortunately, a gap in earnings of this magnitude is large enough that it will still produce a growing fiscal burden from immigration due to the increase in the number of immigrants and will contribute to rising poverty in rapidly growing immigrant communities.

Trudeau and Mulcair have pledged to bring in more family class immigrants - Mulcair has actually promised to not only increase immigration to 370,000 per year, but to make family class the focal point of immigration.Trudeau has also promised to expedite the entry to Canada of parents and grandparents. So the following should be read by their supporters.

Other categories of immigrants such as family class, live-in caregivers, and refugees (all of which have low relative earnings and are still admitted in large numbers) will continue to undercut the improved performance of skilled workers and provincial nominees. The poor performance of Family Class has particularly large impact in depressing average earnings because of their relatively large numbers (accounting for almost 29 per cent of the total number of persons included in the count in 2012). More specifically, the parents and grandparents included in family class come to Canada late in their life and usually have very little, if any, earning capacity in Canadian labour markets, make very small contributions to the financing of the health and social programs they take advantage of.

http://global-economics.ca/immigration_conservative_policies_2012.htm

Edited September 14, 2015 by Argus

[Peter F]

More specifically, the parents and grandparents included in family class come to Canada late in their life and usually have very little, if any, earning capacity in Canadian labour markets, make very small contributions to the financing of the health and social programs they take advantage of.

But that why we have Universal Health Care. So's everyone, even the poor has access to quality health care.

[cybercoma]

But that why we have Universal Health Care. So's everyone, even the poor has access to quality health care.

Not to mention the fact that grandparents and other relatives can be drawn upon for domestic labour, such as babysitting, which frees up the parents to work, pay taxes, and grow the economy. But yeah. Let's pretend they're useless.

[WestCoastRunner]

Lieutenant-General Romeo Dallaie has suggested Canada should take in 80,000-90,00 refugees and Harper is quite simply using security as a smokescreen.

He further states:

"Syria was a well-educated, middle class society and its citizens would make a contribution to Canada.

"They will be an incredible asset, as the Vietnamese were and the Hungarians," he said. "And if you want to talk 80,000 to 90,000, we can handle that capacity."

"Canada has already taken in more than 20,000 Iraqis, and said, "I don't remember people falling all over each other about security. And all of a sudden because they are Syrians — security has become a dominant [theme]?"

"We could go right into those refugee camps and start pulling them out. They are all registered."

Retired general Rick Hillier says.the Canadian Forces could play a key role bringing in 50,000 refugees by Christmas. He goes on to say:

"The country has to move fast. "I've had the unfortunate experience of being in the middle of some of those crises where I served as a soldier," he said. "You really don't appreciate just how tragic an experience it is until you're in the middle of it, until you witness it personally.

"For those kids and those families and older people who are living in terror and fleeing for their lives, waiting [a few months] is far too long for them."

"Let's put a logistics operation in place, get all these cruise ships in Europe that come back to North America for the winter season and let's go and lease a couple of those, bring three or four or five thousand people at a time," Hillier added.

"You don't have to fly people here on military airplanes. Take seven or eight or nine or 10 days to bring them across the Atlantic and you got more time to figure out assessments. This kind of operation is doable. This is what our nation has done for 147 years. Let's do it again."

A great quote: "Lets stop being frightened of our own shadow".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-rick-hillier-refugees-military-christmas-1.3225732

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-romeo-dallaire-syrian-refugees-1.3228123

[Canada_First]

Immigrants that are poor create ghettos. Deal drugs and victimize the real human people. Do we really need more scum to fill up more social housing? This is a ME problem. Let them keep these hate filled extremists. Islam is a cancer on the Earth. Show me a European country where Muslims are not creating problems.

[Vega]

I think a huge problem here is the number of ethnic enclaves. Asians seem to be especially adept at creating them - it's not good. If we're going to take in immigrants, letting them basically create a version of their own country in Canada isn't the way to go. I've talked to many second generation immigrants who feel that the enclave is suffocating, but it's hard for them to get out of it.

It's even harder for people who don't speak English (and there are 2nd generation people who can't). Quebec seems to be good at integrating their immigrants (especially when it comes to speaking the language). Interculturalism is certainly the best path.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Vega

[Argus]

But that why we have Universal Health Care. So's everyone, even the poor has access to quality health care.

We pay for our health care from the time we start working, but we rarely use it for anything but the very, very, very occasional accident. We put far more money into it than we take out up until our senior years. That's when so many of us start putting heavy demands on the system for health care and prescription drugs. Bringing in old people from abroad first of all defeats the expressed defense of high immigration (because of our aging population) and second these newcomers will be making heavy use of health care resources they never paid for. It means a senior who has lived all his life in Canada and paid his taxes all that time can be pushed aside for an immigrant who just arrived last month and has never and will never pay taxes. Their sponsors certainly aren't paying for it, either in taxes or in support.

[Peter F]

Hey if you want to pay for your medical care there are many private institutions that will happily let you pay them. Even in the States! You need not wait in line for nobody!

Me? It doesn't bother me in the least that some ol'fart who never paid a dime towards it is getting healthcare nonetheless. I Like it!

[Canada_First]

Hey if you want to pay for your medical care there are many private institutions that will happily let you pay them. Even in the States! You need not wait in line for nobody!

Me? It doesn't bother me in the least that some ol'fart who never paid a dime towards it is getting healthcare nonetheless. I Like it!

it isn't just one. It's hundreds of thousands or millions. Which is costing billions of dollars when we have a fund shortage.

[Peter F]

Hundreds of thousands or millions of old folks? I think you are misinformed.

[Moonlight Graham]

Haven't commented on this refugee issue yet since the outrage over the photo of the boy.

I don't want masses of Syrian refugees to come here, but if we choose to go over there and blow the place up with our bombs and contribute to them fleeing war I think we do have somewhat of a responsibility to at least take some of them into Canada to help the refugees. I'm not sure on the appropriate number.

However, I think the vast, vast majority of refugees should be handled by the region, and we should give good sums of humanitarian aid money/supplies/support to help those regional neighbours any way we can, helping fund/build/run/supply refugee camps etc. along with other help.

There's also a moral responsibility to help of course, but there's tons of conflicts around the world where refugees need help, in central Africa for example, where the problem has been far worse over the last 15-20 years and beforehand. Syria also isn't the only problem, what about refugees from Iraq? The refugee problem via the Syrian civil war has been going on for 4 years in the region, why only outrage now because a picture of a boy goes viral? Complete ignorance by the large majority of the public IMO, they clearly don't follow the headlines or are numb to death statistics. Many thousands of kids died before the famous child drowned, do we really need to take pictures of them all lined up face-down on a beach for people give a crap?! DISGUSTING.

[Argus]

Hey if you want to pay for your medical care there are many private institutions that will happily let you pay them. Even in the States! You need not wait in line for nobody!

Me? It doesn't bother me in the least that some ol'fart who never paid a dime towards it is getting healthcare nonetheless. I Like it!

You might not like it so much if your mom can't get into a seniors home because of it, or if you die waiting for an operation because they were busy taking care of a series of foreign seniors.

[Argus]

Hundreds of thousands or millions of old folks? I think you are misinformed.

I believe the last figure I saw was something like 30,000 a year, but Trudeau and Mulcair both want to increase immigration and focus on family reunification instead of skills. Trudeau has specifically said (to a group of indians, I believe) that he will make it much easier to bring in parents and grandparents.

[Peter F]

In response to Moonlight Grahams post above:

Precisely why neither we nor Europe will do anything beyond lip service to the problem. But the problems won't go away. Even if they all shut down the borders and decree 'NO MORE', the refugees will still be coming in and they will remain illegally and the strife and animosity will grow even worse.

Deal with it or suffer the consequences. I suspect us and Europe prefer consequences.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Peter F

[Peter F]

You might not like it so much if your mom can't get into a seniors home because of it, or if you die waiting for an operation because they were busy taking care of a series of foreign seniors.

My mom did get into a seniors home - a very nice SaskGovernment one too. Should I die waiting for an operation because the staff are busy giving someone else an operation - Note that I could not give the tiniest of shits if its a foreigner or not - then thats ok with me.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Peter F

[WestCoastRunner]

Much of that is in line with my experiences, though here. Particularly Indian truck drivers. I'd say eastern European truck drivers are almost as bad, though, especially for driving without licenses and ignoring as many rules as they think they can get away with. The countries these people come from are notoriously corrupt and incompetent. No one pays attention to the rules in any of them because such violations, even if caught, get bought off with a small bribe. That includes cheating on your exams and supplying phone references to foreigners.

I am always surprised at your posts. I sometimes think that you have traveled around the word with boots on the ground in every single country on this planet. How on earth do you obtain such experience with brown people? Do you actually have one on one experiences with all these people?

[Not Yet]

Immigration is vital to Canada's sustained growth. But the focus has to be on "selective immigration" so that certain badly-needed professionals are cultivated and criminal elements are culled. However, once people are in Canada and allowed to settle with families for more than a few years, it is ruthless, shameful and even criminal to break up settled families. This is why refugee hearings must be held within 1 year BEFORE family member are allowed to settle.

[Rue]

West Coast why are you not concerned about what Argus said about East Europeans.?

You seem to have decided since he is questioning Indian truck drivers he doesn't like all brown people but you did not infer the same about all whites from his comments about East Europeans...why the selectivity?

You leap to the conclusion he hates all people with brown skin but not all white people. You did that. That is just as bigoted an assumption as what you are accusing him of.

My point? The same people on this forum who point out negative generalizations are wrong are engaging in them just as much. In your case I respect your views. You are very sensitive. You have the right to criticize negative generalizations but in this case he did not state all Indians can't drive trucks. He made no generalization. He did point out a fact, Indian drivers have found a way to get around the driving test as have many other new Canadians. Its so bad we have people who just stand around loading yards offering to back up the trucks for these idiots.

My point is if you want to label Argus go ahead. He does not give a flying phack no doubt. My point is, he does not slur the entire Indian people or East European people because of what he said. He did not. You read that in to it.

I can also ask you the same question as Argus in reverse, what makes you so blind to the world around you when you travel?

He sees half empty, you see half full.

That said I say what I say to you with due respect. You practice what you preach, so I respect your point. and commend you for it, but just because Argus is not politically correct does not mean he is a bigot. You want to infer something-its probably more accurate to infer he hates everyone the same. I know curmudgeons. I am one.

I can only speak for me. I think we have naïve and unrealistic expectations and its dragging down this country as we lower our standards of quality to accommodate everyone and try be all things to everyone. Its time all of us stop expecting accommodation and start pushing ourselves to expect and live up to certain standards. Is that a mean thing to say?

I don't think so. You probably do. I am not lacking compassion because I expect things of myself and do not think I should whne about certain things or get everything I want. I am only speaking for me. I don't hate all Indians. I hear from many Indian truck drivers all the time what is going on in their community-doesn't make them bigots or self haters to be fed up with the cheaters either.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Rue

[hitops]

Haven't commented on this refugee issue yet since the outrage over the photo of the boy.

I don't want masses of Syrian refugees to come here, but if we choose to go over there and blow the place up with our bombs and contribute to them fleeing war I think we do have somewhat of a responsibility to at least take some of them into Canada to help the refugees. I'm not sure on the appropriate number.

We didn't 'go over there and blow the place up'. They had a revolution against the government. Since then, the government and rebels have mostly been blowing the place up with western nations playing a lesser role.

If we are there, there will be mass chaos. If we are not there, there will be mass chaos. Doctors without borders are in many dangerous places, that doesn't mean doctors without borders creates danger.

Edited September 17, 2015 by hitops

[Moonlight Graham]

We didn't 'go over there and blow the place up'. They had a revolution against the government. Since then, the government and rebels have mostly been blowing the place up with western nations playing a lesser role.

True. But certain Western countries have to take to least some responsibility for the rise of ISIS, and for supporting the rebel groups after the revolution began. We have made things worse over there for the refugees & civilians, so we have a responsibility to help some of the people we're effecting in the meantime. This is above and beyond everything else the West has done historically to contribute to many of the problems in the middle-east right now.

If we are there, there will be mass chaos. If we are not there, there will be mass chaos. Doctors without borders are in many dangerous places, that doesn't mean doctors without borders creates danger.

Doctors without borders doesn't have guns, bombs, missiles, tanks or use them in the countries they visit.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Moonlight Graham

[Canada_First]

True. But certain Western countries have to take to least some responsibility for the rise of ISIS, and for supporting the rebel groups after the revolution began. We have made things worse over there for the refugees & civilians, so we have a responsibility to help some of the people we're effecting in the meantime. This is above and beyond everything else the West has done historically to contribute to many of the problems in the middle-east right now.

Doctors without borders doesn't have guns, bombs, missiles, tanks or use them in the countries they visit.

Help them. Certainly. I don't want them to die but I also don't think its the course for countries to take in millions of displaced people permanently. Western nations can't afford it for one and western nations have an increasingly skills based economy while only about 10 to 12% of them have University education. That would leave a large population of refugees not able to find work which means long term drain on resources.

[Argus]

I am always surprised at your posts. I sometimes think that you have traveled around the word with boots on the ground in every single country on this planet. How on earth do you obtain such experience with brown people? Do you actually have one on one experiences with all these people?

I'm just an amazing person.

[Argus]

True. But certain Western countries have to take to least some responsibility for the rise of ISIS,

I've spoken to two guys about this since yesterday. One is a Lebanese immigrant and the other is an Egyptian. Neither blames the West for ISIS. They blame the Saudis. The West dithered about funding any of the rebel groups, but where they did give any funding, and it was scant, it went to the Free Syrian Army, which was a mostly secular group. The Saudis, on the other hand, and some of the gulf states, poured money into the more religious rebels. These groups used that weapony to destroy other non-religious rebel groups.

We have made things worse over there for the refugees & civilians

How?