bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 ...none of which has any bearing on the decision to prosecute thug cops who kill prisoners in custody. It's a lot more relative than your sorry construction above. Prosecute away....more Freddies are waiting to replace this one. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 It's a lot more relative than your sorry construction above. Prosecute away....more Freddies are waiting to replace this one. And, if you guys are correct, they'll kill each other off and nobody will have to worry about them. I don't even care about Freddie Gray... I'm concerned with ridding police forces of Kwesi Millington and Geoff Mantler type thugs. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) And, if you guys are correct, they'll kill each other off and nobody will have to worry about them. I don't even care about Freddie Gray... I'm concerned with ridding police forces of Kwesi Millington and Geoff Mantler type thugs. I'm not concerned with any of it....see...I live a "law abiding life". If the cops have to be "thugs" to keep the criminals at bay...so be it. Lord knows the other "thugs" get enough love already. None of these cops will be convicted of "murder". Edited June 15, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 I'm not concerned with any of it....see...I live a "law abiding life". One of the people currently suing the Baltimore PD over a "nickel ride" is a librarian who was in the police van because her house-party got too loud. The premise that anybody who ends up in a police-van must be a thug who deserves to get maimed or killed is pretty dumb. If the cops have to be "thugs" to keep the criminals at bay...so be it. Heyyy, let's just do away with courts and let the police deal with crime as they decide. Like in Judge Dredd comics! There's nothing to suggest that the "nickel rides" perform any useful function in keeping criminals at bay. They're not deterring crime, they're just getting their jollies, blowing off steam, taking out their frustrations, dealing with little-man syndrome. None of these cops will be convicted of "murder". And that's why people rioted in the streets. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 One of the people currently suing the Baltimore PD over a "nickel ride" is a librarian who was in the police van because her house-party got too loud. The premise that anybody who ends up in a police-van must be a thug who deserves to get maimed or killed is pretty dumb. Best advice is to stay out of police vans. Heyyy, let's just do away with courts and let the police deal with crime as they decide. Like in Judge Dredd comics! Courts will have their day/say...but somebody has to do the dirty work. You gonna do it ? There's nothing to suggest that the "nickel rides" perform any useful function in keeping criminals at bay. They're not deterring crime, they're just getting their jollies, blowing off steam, taking out their frustrations, dealing with little-man syndrome. Again...I don't care...avoid the "nickel ride" to begin with. Let 'em sue....doctors kill more people each year with incompetence than do the cops. And that's why people rioted in the streets. Makes for good entertainment...in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Why do courts need to have their day if great guys like Officer Caesar can do such a great job of administering justice without having to go through all that hassle of courts and lawyers? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Why do courts need to have their day if great guys like Officer Caesar can do such a great job of administering justice without having to go through all that hassle of courts and lawyers? Because that's what the law requires. Has nothing to do with fun and games prior, during, or after the arrest. Perps don't get that.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 So Officer Caesar is just taking the fall to protect a system that's actually better than the legal system set out in the constitution? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
On Guard for Thee Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Because that's what the law requires. Has nothing to do with fun and games prior, during, or after the arrest. Perps don't get that.... The law requires killing perps before they can even get to court...dawg bless Murika. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 So Officer Caesar is just taking the fall to protect a system that's actually better than the legal system set out in the constitution? There is no better or different system...that is a fiction. Justice is blind...remember ? Perps sure as hell don't follow what is set out in the constitution...until they desperately need it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 There is no better or different system...that is a fiction. Justice is blind...remember ? Perps sure as hell don't follow what is set out in the constitution...until they desperately need it. Do you reckon the Baltimore cop perps will need it... Quote
sharkman Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 Suppose there's this guy Pete. His hobbies include extreme snowboarding, extreme off-road dirtbiking, cliff-diving, base-jumping, bare-hands rock-climbing, and any other adrenaline-junkie activity you can name. One day, for no particular reason, I sneak up on him and drop one of my famous kimmy-busters on his chin. And unexpectedly, he's very badly injured, suffering a massive concussion or a massive brain hemorrhage or something terrible like that, and he's unable to work or live a normal life afterward. Pete can't sleep, feels constant dizziness and nausea, he has difficulty reading and even talking, he can't do any of the things he used to love. And I'm on trial for basically ruining this man's life. My lawyer steps up in front of the judge and says "Your honor, just look at the hobbies Pete did before he was injured! When you consider all of the dangerous, reckless things Pete did,it's practically inevitable that he suffered an injury like this! In fact, it's amazing that he didn't suffer a brain injury sooner!" Sounds pretty ludicrous, right? But that's the argument you and Shady are putting forward. The fact that Freddie Gray had a long record of, apparently smoking and/or selling drugs might have put him at a higher risk of dying violently than somebody who lived a law abiding life. It also put him at higher risk of dying of manslaughter at the hands of a policeman than somebody who lived a law abiding life. But in no way does that absolve the police officer who, you know, actually did the manslaughter. -k {"Well, Freddie Gray was going to die young anyway, so Officer Goodson is just kind of a victim of fate, y'know? It's like, destiny."} You think that someone using and selling drugs and therefore dealing with the underworld and gangs is the same as someone with a hobby for thrill activities? I guess both are at higher risk of dying. Pete is at a higher risk, but he's not breaking laws, harming society, etc. That's his choice. I'm saying that someone who lives outside the law, you know, selling drugs, robbing, fighting other gangs, that person is at a higher risk to die by what he's doing. He rubs shoulders(I'm not talking about this Freddy guy) with dangerous people who will kill him if they think he's ripping them off, he may be involved in drive by shootings or worse. The cops deal with a very small percentage of the actual law breaking going on. The vast majority of gang members that die do not do so at the hand of the police. Now I'm sure you don't agree with some or all of that, and that is fine. I just wasted 20 minutes of my time mulling this over while watching a movie. I don't see the value in continually debating with people that will never agree together. What's the point? Why bother? Why should I care what you think, or you I? And most of the people here are just looking for amusement and games. These hot button issues drive a wedge between perfectly nice people, and that's not good either. The more I visit this place, the more I think that I'd rather not talk politics, religion or hot button topics with anyone. Just nod and smile and say, "how's the weather?". Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 You think that someone using and selling drugs and therefore dealing with the underworld and gangs is the same as someone with a hobby for thrill activities? I guess both are at higher risk of dying. Pete is at a higher risk, but he's not breaking laws, harming society, etc. That's his choice. I'm saying that someone who lives outside the law, you know, selling drugs, robbing, fighting other gangs, that person is at a higher risk to die by what he's doing. He rubs shoulders(I'm not talking about this Freddy guy) with dangerous people who will kill him if they think he's ripping them off, he may be involved in drive by shootings or worse. The cops deal with a very small percentage of the actual law breaking going on. The vast majority of gang members that die do not do so at the hand of the police. Now I'm sure you don't agree with some or all of that, and that is fine. I just wasted 20 minutes of my time mulling this over while watching a movie. I don't see the value in continually debating with people that will never agree together. What's the point? Why bother? Why should I care what you think, or you I? And most of the people here are just looking for amusement and games. These hot button issues drive a wedge between perfectly nice people, and that's not good either. The more I visit this place, the more I think that I'd rather not talk politics, religion or hot button topics with anyone. Just nod and smile and say, "how's the weather?". The obvious thing you seem to be ignoring is that, in this case Freddy, was not killed in some sort of gangland shootout. He was killed by being thrown violently around in the back of a police van after having been totally shackled. You know, police, those folks who are swor to uphold the law... Quote
sharkman Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 The obvious thing you seem to be ignoring is that, in this case Freddy, was not killed in some sort of gangland shootout. He was killed by being thrown violently around in the back of a police van after having been totally shackled. You know, police, those folks who are swor to uphold the law... And you just want to play games. Are you bored? Would you be bored if he was white? Tell you what, give yourself 100 bonus points and go straight to the play off round. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 And you just want to play games. Are you bored? Would you be bored if he was white? Tell you what, give yourself 100 bonus points and go straight to the play off round. Apparently you are bored. BTW, if Freddy was white, the cops would still be charged. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 No that's not what he's saying, are you being obtuse on purpose? He's saying if you lead a life of crime, your chances of being killed are higher than if you don't lead a life of crime. Why is that so hard to understand. A person who continually drives recklessly also has a higher risk of death.From their driving. The risk of death by a cop for unarmed persons not resisting arrest should be zero. Talk about being obtuse. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Best advice is to stay out of police vans.I guess killing cops who are trying to put you into the vans in the first place is an option in your painfully stupid little scenario then, right? After all. It's self defence. You run the risk of being killed by them and all that. Edited June 15, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
Argus Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 If he could have got to prison without being killed by the police. He did, on many occasions, apparently. I think the point is the more often you have run-ins with armed men are paid to apply force to miscreants like you, the higher the odds one of them is going to miscalculate his use of force to your detriment. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Suppose there's this guy Pete. His hobbies include extreme snowboarding, extreme off-road dirtbiking, cliff-diving, base-jumping, bare-hands rock-climbing, and any other adrenaline-junkie activity you can name. One day, for no particular reason, I sneak up on him and drop one of my famous kimmy-busters on his chin Not a very good analogy, kimmy. A better one would be if he breaks his neck while doing his extreme off-roading or get mushed like mashed potatoes while cliff diving. A lot of people would probably just shrug and say that was the risk he took doing that stuff. No one would say he deserved it, but aside from friends and family a lot of people would probably just say it was his own damned fault. There is a risk in continually coming into hostile conflict with often poorly trained, poorly disciplined, armed men and women whose job it is to apply sufficient force to apprehend you. Part of that risk is these are human beings and might get more than a little pissed off at your revolving door, pain-in-the-ass antics and decide to apply a little street justice, then miscalculate the damage that would cause. Which is probably what happened here. And no, I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying it with any approval, just saying that is the way it is. I'd like every cop to be a true professional, honest, forthright, brave, noble, self-sacrificing, and determined to never apply more force than the bare minimum necessary. But have we ever had a police force like that? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 And, if you guys are correct, they'll kill each other off and nobody will have to worry about them. I don't even care about Freddie Gray... I'm concerned with ridding police forces of Kwesi Millington and Geoff Mantler type thugs. -k Me too. It's difficult, though. First, there's an aura of immunity to what cops do. Part of that is because voters are afaid of criminals, and part of it is every generation grows up watching cop shows where cops are portrayed as heroic defenders of the innocent. Second, there's an informal understanding that all of us make mistakes at work. The mistakes a cop makes can sometimes be deadly, so people tend to make allowances for an 'understandable' error, like shooting a 12 year old with a fake gun. Then there's the way cops are trained, which is to treat everyone they meet as a potentially dangerous enemy who must be watched like a hawk and forced into nearly instant compliance. I don't want to be too repetetive but if people look at any of the large array of britcop type shows on youtube you see cops who are much more informal and less suspicions, even with people they know are miscreants, who rarely ever apply force, and who are clearly not in any great fear for their lives. It's true that US cops are more likely to be shot than British cops, but the statistics still say it's extremely rare. Still, I think we need to adapt a lot of the British training methods over here and stop teaching our cops to think of people as 'the enemy'. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 There is no better or different system...that is a fiction. Huh? You're suggesting the US policing and criminal justice system are the best in the world? Really? What would you base such a belief on? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 He did, on many occasions, apparently. I think the point is the more often you have run-ins with armed men are paid to apply force to miscreants like you, the higher the odds one of them is going to miscalculate his use of force to your detriment. Detriment....To your death, I think is the correct phraseology here. I think most of us will see through that attempt to whitewash the truth. They dont usually charges cops with murder for causing detriment. Quote
Argus Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Detriment....To your death, I think is the correct phraseology here. I think most of us will see through that attempt to whitewash the truth. They dont usually charges cops with murder for causing detriment. They do if they're political. There is no way in hell any of these cops are going to be found guilty of murder. That charge is to please the rabble. The only cops who are likely to be found guilty of anything are the ones in the truck, and since it's extremely unlikely they had any intent to kill him the charges will wind up being lowered. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
H10 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 O well so sad too bad. 600 years of white terrorism and genocide against blacks and now blacks are fighting back and whites want to cry that blacks won't sit down and be quietly ethnically cleansed anymore by white people. Get over it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 "Black people" are quietly being "ethnically cleansed" by other "black people" far more often than by "white people". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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