Hatikvah or "The Hope" - Israel at 67

[Hudson Jones]

So when the Jews got kicked out centuries ago, was that stealing because of warfare?

Majority of the Jews who have colonized the area have no connection to the Jews who were persecuted centuries ago. Most of them have a lot less biological connection to the ancient Jews than the Palestinians they have been living there for centuries and who they have been pushing out.

[Rue]

H Jones:

1.Prove I lost my biological connection to the Jews of the Middle East-put up or shut up. Provide the medical evidence.

2.Prove I have no spiritual connection to the Jews of Israel who live there today. Put up or shut up.

3. Prove how Israel is one of the worst human rights abusers of self proclaimed democracies-provide the criteria and methods you used to determine this, and who you compared Israel and what a self proclaimed democracy is=stop throwing out terms you do not define-its intellectually dishonest.

You attempt to hold Israel to a double standard in the Middle East and not have it compared to Iran or any other Arab nation. You try do that with the weak, transparent device of calling it a self proclaimed democracy. Because its a self-proclaimed democracy-what ever the hell that means- why poof, just like magic, this label you stick on with no definition suddenly and magically allows you to hold Israel to a different standard than all the Arab League nations, China, Russia, i.e., the worst human rights abusers of the world. what a coincidence and oh how convenient and its of course anyone's guess what you consider a self proclaimed democracy but hey does it matter? Lol.

Self proclaimed democracy? Ah I love the buzz words. Sort of like neo conservative and neo colonialist or throwing out words like racist, apartheid-hey now, we just throw out the buzz words and make up what they mean as we go along changing their meaning to suit the insult of the day right H Jones? Wrong.

Whether a country is self proclaimed as a democracy or is not, its engaging in human rights violations and the moral code used to judge them does not change. The contention that a self proclaimed democracy's human rights violations are worse or make that possible to ignore the non self proclaimed democratic nation's human rights violations and not treat them with the same moral standard is nonsensical and a pathetic attempt to hide your blatant selective bias as to who you will criticize.

Isn't it interesting Amnesty international, Human Rights Watch, do not define human rights as worse because they are done by Israel these are of course the very groups Jones has quoted when he thinks they condemn Israel but remain silent on when they criticize Iran or Syria.

Isn't it special how H Jones can avoid discussing Iran, Syria, Iraq, Hamas, ISIL, Hezbollah, on and on because they are not "self proclaimed" democracies what ever the hell that is supposed to mean.

Hey but let's lay it all out there. H Jones believes there is a double standard and its allowed because Israel is self proclaimed as a democracy. So following that argument, if I call Bibi up today and say, hey Benny proclaim yourself and your nation a bunch of cancerous ideologues. That way if you are no longer self proclaimed democrats, but call yourself Zionist cancers, Mr. Jones will no longer criticize your human rights abuses..

Better still Bibi, don't order your troops to put their lives in danger trying to protect Palestinians and Israelis, have them go out and kill both deliberately, each day. Create a constitution like th PA and Hamas and Hezbollah calling for the destruction of Muslims worldwide in a holy war to turn the entire world a Jewish state run by a council of Rabbias. By becoming Hamas and Hezbollah, only the Jwish version, that will assure you remain at the same standard as Hamas, Hezbollah, Isil, and then H Jones will not hold you to any standard. He will remain silent. See he only criticizes you because you are a self proclaimed democracy, that's all.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

H Jones:

1.Prove I lost my biological connection to the Jews of the Middle East-put up or shut up. Provide the medical evidence.

I don't know you or your biological background. What I said is that most Jews who migrated to the region have less of a connection to the land. This is in response to people who want to justify the colonization to the connection of Jews to the ancient Hebrews.

Era Elhaik, an IDF veteran and a molecular geneticist has shattered this myth through science - Of course, that has turned him into an "anti-semite" - Just like anyone else who challenges the Zionist narrative:

In “The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses,” published in December in the online journal Genome Biology and Evolution, Elhaik says he has proved that Ashkenazi Jews’ roots lie in the Caucasus — a region at the border of Europe and Asia that lies between the Black and Caspian seas — not in the Middle East. They are descendants, he argues, of the Khazars, a Turkic people who lived in one of the largest medieval states in Eurasia and then migrated to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries.

Elhaik bases his conclusion on an analysis of genetic data published by a team of researchers led by Doron Behar, a population geneticist and senior physician at Israel’s Rambam Medical Center, in Haifa.

Link

He`s not the only "anti-semite" Israeli who, through science, has shown that there is no special DNA connection between most Jews and the ancient Hebrews of the region.

For Shlomo Sand, history professor at Tel Aviv University and author of the controversial book The Invention of the Jewish People, Elhaik's paper was a vindication of his long-held ideas.

"It's so obvious for me," says Sand. “Some people, historians and even scientists, turn a blind eye to the truth. Once to say Jews were a race was anti-Semitic, now to say they're not a race is anti-Semitic. It's crazy how history plays with us.“

“There is no Jewish genome and certainly no Jewish gene,” says the Israeli-born Elhaik. Instead, all humans are a mix of the same building blocks, built with slightly different architectures. “The confusion about European Jews results from their tragic history of persecutions and deportations, creating multiple links between ancestry and geography. By dismantling our notions of genetically distinct populations and understanding our kinship, we can better appreciate our common history, and more importantly, our shared future.“

Link

2.Prove I have no spiritual connection to the Jews of Israel who live there today. Put up or shut up.

I could care less about your spiritual connection. That's not what was discussed.

3. Prove how Israel is one of the worst human rights abusers of self proclaimed democracies

The countless information on this forum alone might be a good start for you to understand the human rights violations Israel has committed. It's important that you pay attention and read the information being given to you. Otherwise, you're wasting everyone's time.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Hudson Jones

[Moonlight Graham]

The UN prohibits against annexation like that no ?

Yes it does. It's against international law to acquire/annex land through warfare, whether attacking or defending.

[dre]

Why is it stealing if gained in warfare started by the alleged "owners" (really tenants) on the land?

Amazing someone with a brain larger than a pea would ask that question... Concentrate your very hardest JBG... Even you can figure this out...

steal

stēl/

verb

gerund or present participle: stealing

1. take (another person's property) without permission or legal right.

   "thieves stole her bicycle"

   synonyms: purloin, thieve, take, take for oneself, help oneself to, loot, pilfer, run off with, abscond with, carry off, shoplift; More

   embezzle, misappropriate;

   informalwalk off with, rob, swipe, snatch, nab, rip off, lift, “liberate”, “borrow”, filch, pinch, heist;

   informalnick;

   formalpeculate

   "the burglars stole a fax machine"

   theft, thieving, thievery, robbery, larceny, burglary, shoplifting, pilfering, pilferage, looting, misappropriation;

   embezzlement;

   formalpeculation

   "he was convicted of stealing"

Make sense Genius? Does Israel have the legal right or the permission of

If your neighbor attacks you, do you now own his house? Concentrate Genius.

Is Japan US soil now because it lost a war that it started?

Is Germany Russian soil now because it lost a war that it started?

Should Russia be Geogian Soil?

Concentrate your hardest little buddy... [pats head]

[bush_cheney2004]

The UN prohibits against annexation like that no ?

No, the UN can't prohibit anything. Just ask First Nations in Canada or the U.S.

[Michael Hardner]

No, the UN can't prohibit anything.

Yes, they are quite effective. If you want an example you can get excited about, see Desert Storm I.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, they are quite effective. If you want an example you can get excited about, see Desert Storm I.

The UN did not prohibit "Desert Storm I". It also did not prohibit the invasion of Iraq or the bombing of Serbia.

[Michael Hardner]

The UN did not prohibit "Desert Storm I". It also did not prohibit the invasion of Iraq or the bombing of Serbia.

Yes, invasions are prohibited and the UN/US world police responded. Why are you not excited by that in this instance ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, invasions are prohibited and the UN/US world police responded. Why are you not excited by that in this instance ?

The invasion was not prohibited...it happened regardless of the UN. The resulting occupation was countered by the "world police", which attacked and invaded Iraq multiple times without any UN prohibition.

[Michael Hardner]

The invasion was not prohibited...it happened regardless of the UN.

Prohibited (forbidden by law) it was, prevented it was not.

The resulting occupation was countered by the "world police", which attacked and invaded Iraq multiple times without any UN prohibition.

Given domain to do so under DS1, legitimizing the entire affair to a wider approval than would otherwise have been approved. If the UN was good enough for ex-CIA chief GHW Bush then why not you ? My God, it's in your name !

[bush_cheney2004]

...Given domain to do so under DS1, legitimizing the entire affair to a wider approval than would otherwise have been approved. If the UN was good enough for ex-CIA chief GHW Bush then why not you ? My God, it's in your name !

The UN is a debating club....and not a very good one at that. It prohibits nothing....

[dre]

The UN is a debating club....and not a very good one at that. It prohibits nothing....

More UN bashing by people that know nothing about it.

Say what you will about the UN and its successes and failures, but its definately the most successful attempt at creating a global forum for international cooperation that there ever has been.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yay for the UN....the greatest dues collecting club in the history of the world. <Slow clap>

[jbg]

The UN is a debating club....and not a very good one at that. It prohibits nothing....

Have you ever read the Hansards of the typical U.N. General Assembly debate?

[Moonlight Graham]

Why is it stealing if gained in warfare started by the alleged "owners" (really tenants) on the land?

So what you're saying is that the first to occupy land are the rightful owners, especially if it's lost through warfare, unless the original owners give away or sell the land or voluntarily leave the land?

[bush_cheney2004]

Nobody has the right to land...only the right to defend possession. God rewards the winner.

[jbg]

So what you're saying is that the first to occupy land are the rightful owners, especially if it's lost through warfare, unless the original owners give away or sell the land or voluntarily leave the land?

I don't quite follow.

[Bonam]

Amazing someone with a brain larger than a pea would ask that question... Concentrate your very hardest JBG... Even you can figure this out..

Thanks for the dictionary definition of stealing. Nonetheless, if someone attacks me in an alley and I manage to fight them off, I'm not gonna feel too bad about walking off with their knife so they can't attack me again later. Did I "steal" the knife? Sure, maybe. Should anyone care? No, not really. The blame for the whole situation in general is on the guy who attacked me in the alley. And if some court looked at the situation, the person likely to be punished in some way is the assailant for assault, not me for stealing the knife.

Make sense?

[dre]

Thanks for the dictionary definition of stealing. Nonetheless, if someone attacks me in an alley and I manage to fight them off, I'm not gonna feel too bad about walking off with their knife so they can't attack me again later. Did I "steal" the knife? Sure, maybe. Should anyone care? No, not really. The blame for the whole situation in general is on the guy who attacked me in the alley. And if some court looked at the situation, the person likely to be punished in some way is the assailant for assault, not me for stealing the knife.

Make sense?

Bad analogy.

The problem comes when you not only take the knife, but you go and sieze his property and his house. Then you sieze the property of his children who werent even alive when he attacked you, and the property of hundreds of thousands of people who had nothing to do with the attack on you at all. Then you go and build homes for yourself on all this stolen land for you and buddies, and you make a sport out of harrasing and terrorizing those that remain, burning their crops, bulldozing homes, filling in wells etc, and you keep taking MORE land even from those that are not attacking you.

Your analogy is just really bad. Especially since Israel has done its share of being on the attack as well.

And youre wrong about the courts... if you tried to use your hypothetical alley attack as an excuse to sieze all of that persons property and the property of his children, friends, neighbors etc... You would get the book thrown at you.

Edited April 30, 2015 by dre

[bush_cheney2004]

Gee...I like the analogy...could apply to Israel....and certainly to Canada's treatment of...ahem..."Aboriginals".

[Rue]

So speaking about thread drift.We have Graham and Harder inventing powers of the UN and alleged legal concepts about welfare land annexation. We have H Jones arguing there is no genetic link between Hebrews and Jews which if he read the damn article he thinks he is quoting went on to say a hell of a lot more than he cut and paste not to mention that attempt to deny Jews have no genetic link to the past is not even germaine to the conflict because Zionism has never defined Jews as a race.

But hey, we bring up selective criticism of past historic events about land ownership only about Israel and ignore the rest because that is thread drift. And hey wasn't that a great explanation of what a self proclaimed democracy is and how it enables Jones to utter once again a double standard when defining human rights violations

Then we have the false statement that Jews stole land from Palestinian owners of land from Mr. Graham who continues with the fantasy that Palestinians had land titles and Jews just walked in and took it because hey you know its what Jews do, steal. Thieves. Jews are thieves right Moonlight Graham. Let's just summarize your thesis-Jews are thieves.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Thanks for the dictionary definition of stealing. Nonetheless, if someone attacks me in an alley and I manage to fight them off, I'm not gonna feel too bad about walking off with their knife so they can't attack me again later. Did I "steal" the knife? Sure, maybe. Should anyone care? No, not really. The blame for the whole situation in general is on the guy who attacked me in the alley. And if some court looked at the situation, the person likely to be punished in some way is the assailant for assault, not me for stealing the knife.

Make sense?

The correct way to finish this analogy off is that you entered the person's home and then the knife was pulled.

[Rue]

Yah yah thieves with knives. Got it.

[Hudson Jones]

Nobody has the right to land...only the right to defend possession. God rewards the winner.

What other laws have you made up in your head?