Men's Rights

-1=e^ipi · May 27, 2015

Given the biological differences involved, I'm sure you can figure out why that double standard exists.

And what is wrong with giving males the legal option to opt out of being a legal parent if they did not consent to having children?

Oh yeah? Really? This has happened?

Men get raped by women all the time. Although I've never heard of a case where the rape victim has ended up paying child support. Do you want to wait for this situation to happen before doing something?

The same logic you and your gramner gate bros use when discussing "Social Justice Warriors" and feminists. Difference being, if there's a serious, sober advocate for men's rights among the MRA community who isn't driven by a creepy antipathy towards women, I haven't heard of him.

I gave examples at the beginning of this thread, but apparently you have ignored them. What is wrong with the Honey Badger Brigade; Karen Straughen in particular?

Black Dog · May 27, 2015

And what is wrong with giving males the legal option to opt out of being a legal parent if they did not consent to having children?

Did I say there was anything wrong with it?

Men get raped by women all the time. Although I've never heard of a case where the rape victim has ended up paying child support. Do you want to wait for this situation to happen before doing something?

What are you proposing be done?

I gave examples at the beginning of this thread, but apparently you have ignored them. What is wrong with the Honey Badger Brigade; Karen Straughen in particular?

Aside from being affiliated with some of the toxic kooks I alluded to like that psychopath Paul Elam? Dunno, they're drowned out by the crazy, which is kind of the point. And even they spend more time racking up mad YouTube hits bashing TEH FEMINYSTS than they do actually doing any, you know, work for men's rights.

-1=e^ipi · May 27, 2015

What are you proposing be done?

Give males the legal option to opt out of being a legal parent if they did not consent to having children. I already told you that.

Black Dog · May 27, 2015

Give males the legal option to opt out of being a legal parent if they did not consent to having children. I already told you that.

OK. Let's see the MRAs put their weight behind such a legislative change.

What's that? They're too busy ranting on webcams and lining their own pockets with the donations from gullible sops to actually, you know, do anything meaningful to advance their cause? Oh. OK.

-1=e^ipi · May 27, 2015

OK. Let's see the MRAs put their weight behind such a legislative change.

As far as I know, most MRA groups would support this. But they don't have any political power to enact legislative change. Most of the population is convinced MRA = traditionalist misogynist and the fact that the SJW have infiltrated the media and the education system doesn't help. It is far more politically fashionable to pretend that women earn 77% of what men earn for similar work, or claim that 1 in 4 women will be raped in their lifetimes.

lining their own pockets with the donations from gullible sops

You mean like how Anita Sarkeesian has received half a million dollars in donations?

Also, I don't understand this 'criticism' that MRAs are trying to compete in the free market place of ideas to spread awareness about men's rights issues. What do you expect them to do? They have 0 political power, unlike the mainstream feminists.

Edited May 27, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

Black Dog · May 27, 2015

As far as I know, most MRA groups would support this. But they don't have any political power to enact legislative change. Most of the population is convinced MRA = traditionalist misogynist and the fact that the SJW have infiltrated the media and the education system doesn't help. It is far more politically fashionable to pretend that women earn 77% of what men earn for similar work, or claim that 1 in 4 women will be raped in their lifetimes.

Yup. Big conspiracy. That's the ticket. Jet fuel can't melt steel!

You mean like how Anita Sarkeesian has received half a million dollars in donations?

:lol: Not sure how "But...but this person over here is a grifter too!" helps your case but a-ight.

Also, I don't understand this 'criticism' that MRAs are trying to compete in the free market place of ideas to spread awareness about men's rights issues. What do you expect them to do? They have 0 political power, unlike the mainstream feminists.

I expect them to actually do the work. You know, like feminists did.

But, I get it: it's way easier to whinge and whine and blame everyone else for your problems than actually get organized and do something about it (which would include ensuring the faces of your movement aren't a bunch of creepy psychos, but again, I'm not convinced that the movement isn't exclusively creepy psychos insofar as there is a movement and not just dudes yelling on the internet).

Edited May 27, 2015 by Black Dog

-1=e^ipi · May 28, 2015

Yup. Big conspiracy. That's the ticket. Jet fuel can't melt steel!

I never used the word conspiracy. Strawman argument.

But, I get it: it's way easier to whinge and whine and blame everyone else for your problems than actually get organized and do something about it

Still waiting for a suggestion of what you expect MRAs should do that they are not already doing...

Black Dog · May 28, 2015

I never used the word conspiracy. Strawman argument.

You implied it.

Still waiting for a suggestion of what you expect MRAs should do that they are not already doing...

Something other than make sh*tty YouTube videos and doxxing female gamers would be a start.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Michael Hardner
profanity

-1=e^ipi · May 28, 2015

You implied it.

Nope. That is your imagination.

Black Dog · May 28, 2015

Nope. That is your imagination.

"the fact that the SJW have infiltrated the media and the education system"

They're out there! Infiltrating teh systems! Hating teh menz! LOL

-1=e^ipi · May 28, 2015

Infiltrated != conspiracy. Learn words.

WestCoastRunner · May 28, 2015

And what is wrong with giving males the legal option to opt out of being a legal parent if they did not consent to having children?

Besides the fact that a man can't give a woman the legal papers that he does not want to father a child before she rapes him, here are some suggestions for a man to avoid fathering a child (just so they don't have to go the legal route):

A. Abstain from sex

B. Have a vasectomy

C. Ensure that his partner has taken the necessary precautions (all of the following): on the pill, has an iud, has a diaphragm, has access to the morning after pill (of course the male partner would have to ensure she takes this pill the morning after they have had sex)

And there you go. Mission accomplished.

-1=e^ipi · May 28, 2015

Here is how a woman can avoid having children without resorting to an abortion:

A. Abstain from sex.

B. Have tubes tied.

C. Ensure that her partner has taken the necessary precautions (Wears a condom).

There you go. Mission accomplished. Can we abolish abortions now?

Do you see how ridiculous your statement is now?

WestCoastRunner · May 28, 2015

Here is how a woman can avoid having children without resorting to an abortion:

A. Abstain from sex.

B. Have tubes tied.

C. Ensure that her partner has taken the necessary precautions (Wears a condom).

There you go. Mission accomplished. Can we abolish abortions now?

Do you see how ridiculous your statement is now?

Why is my statement ridiculous? And yes I agree women can do many things to avoid becoming pregnant but it's no reason to abolish abortions. If we did that then men who didn't want to be a biological father would be sol for sure without abortion being an option.

-1=e^ipi · May 28, 2015

You realize I'm not advocating the abolition of abortions, right?

Bonam · May 28, 2015

You realize I'm not advocating the abolition of abortions, right?

No, she doesn't realize that. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible for them to understand what you are trying to say. They don't even realize that a double standard exists when it comes to reproductive rights, at all. In their minds, it's just not there.

Black Dog · May 28, 2015

No, she doesn't realize that. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible for them to understand what you are trying to say. They don't even realize that a double standard exists when it comes to reproductive rights, at all. In their minds, it's just not there.

Dunno who "they" are here, but I for one have acknowledged that a double standard exists. The question is: is it a justifiable one? Some would argue that what you're asking for is to give men an option women don't have: that is the right to not support a living child.

cybercoma · May 28, 2015

More importantly is the precedent it sets in the other direction. Men forcing women to carry a child to term against their wishes because they want to be a father and the woman does not want to be a mother, doesn't want to be pregnant, or both. In that case, the inverse of that argument that men should be able to opt out is that men should be able to opt in and force women to be incubators against their will.

cybercoma · May 28, 2015

Of course, all of this is avoided by actually being adults and understanding your partner's reproductive goals before getting into a sexual relationship with them. But, hell, who wants to talk to women? They're only there to service men and their needs. :rolleyes:

Black Dog · May 28, 2015

This strikes me a lot like the late term abortion conversation, in which an exceedingly rare event is used as the basis of a broad reaching policy solution. I'd bet money that men being forced to pay child support for kids they did not agree to have is exceedingly rare and almost certainly dwarfed by the number of men who actually blow off their paternal obligations. It seems odd than in a society where people fret about the breakdown of the family and it's impacts that we'd want to handicap children of single parent households even further by giving men an additional escape clause.

bush_cheney2004 · May 28, 2015

Not so rare...as by statute in many jurisdictions, married men are legally responsible for child support regardless of paternity.

cybercoma · May 28, 2015

Not so rare...as by statute in many jurisdictions, married men are legally responsible for child support regardless of paternity.

What radical legislation. Someone who a child views as their father has to actually support the child. :rolleyes:

bush_cheney2004 · May 28, 2015

The child's viewpoint should have nothing to do with child support liability. If a man does not father the child, he can choose to adopt/support if so desired.

Black Dog · May 28, 2015

Of course, all of this is avoided by actually being adults and understanding your partner's reproductive goals before getting into a sexual relationship with them. But, hell, who wants to talk to women? They're only there to service men and their needs.

But don't forget women will trick men into impregnating them for the child support money. I read it on 4Chan!