Finland To Scrap Subjects in Education

[socialist]

Fresh out of Teachers college and you consider yourself an educator? That's like me getting a specific cert in IT and claiming I am an expert. Laughable at best.

I've been to many conferences over the years and I read many educational research papers. I am a life long learner. You haven't even heard of many educational initiatives. I would put you into the camp with other educational relics; stuck in the past, unaware that we are living in the 21st century.

We are preparing kids for jobs that don't yet exist. Does that make sense to you?

[Guest]

I've been to many conferences over the years and I read many educational research papers. I am a life long learner. You haven't even heard of many educational initiatives. I would put you into the camp with other educational relics; stuck in the past, unaware that we are living in the 21st century.

We are preparing kids for jobs that don't yet exist. Does that make sense to you?

It only makes sense if you know they are going to exist. Otherwise you're just a selfish ideologue using kids as guinea pigs.

[Mighty AC]

It only makes sense if you know they are going to exist. Otherwise you're just a selfish ideologue using kids as guinea pigs.

We used to spew facts and ask for them to be recalled. Now there is a focus on transferable skill sets that allow students to evaluate information, collaborate effectively, identify problems and pick up new skills independently. Business leaders want students that can self learn on the fly.

Students still pick up a base load of concepts. However, rather than spoon feed information and ask that at least 50% of it be regurgitated, better teachers now setup situations (as often as possible) in which students seek out required knowledge for themselves. Teachers are there to layout the framework, guide the process and keep everyone on track, but they now (should) lecture as little as possible.

[socialist]

It only makes sense if you know they are going to exist. Otherwise you're just a selfish ideologue using kids as guinea pigs.

Who is using kids as guinea pigs? New techniques proven by research are helping kids. Think before you post please.

[socialist]

We used to spew facts and ask for them to be recalled. Now there is a focus on transferable skill sets that allow students to evaluate information, collaborate effectively, identify problems and pick up new skills independently. Business leaders want students that can self learn on the fly.

Students still pick up a base load of concepts. However, rather than spoon feed information and ask that at least 50% of it be regurgitated, better teachers now setup situations (as often as possible) in which students seek out required knowledge for themselves. Teachers are there to layout the framework, guide the process and keep everyone on track, but they now (should) lecture as little as possible.

Exactly. Educators are now facilitators. I don't need to be a math expert to teach math. I don't need to be a history expert to teach history. We guide kids to seek an understanding concepts on their own. We facilitate learning. We don't dictate learning. Many relics fail to understand this.

[Guest]

Who is using kids as guinea pigs? New techniques proven by research are helping kids. Think before you post please.

Read before you post please. You do know they are going to exist, then, and you know what they are?

And all of the kids you teach are going to get these jobs that don't exist yet. None of them are getting any of the boring jobs that currently exist?

[Mighty AC]

Exactly. Educators are now facilitators. I don't need to be a math expert to teach math. I don't need to be a history expert to teach history. We guide kids to seek an understanding concepts on their own. We facilitate learning. We don't dictate learning. Many relics fail to understand this.

We don't dictate learning, but you should still be a subject area expert. At least several levels beyond the students you expect to facilitate.

That being said I have taught software courses where I allow students to use languages I don't use. I am a senior developer but I don't know every language or DB. In those cases, like you said, I do just guide students to the sources I use when working with a new syntax.

[socialist]

We don't dictate learning, but you should still be a subject area expert. At least several levels beyond the students you expect to facilitate.

That being said I have taught software courses where I allow students to use languages I don't use. I am a senior developer but I don't know every language or DB. In those cases, like you said, I do just guide students to the sources I use when working with a new syntax.

Working with kids is much different than working with the people you work with. I'm beginning to wonder if you truly understand.

[socialist]

Read before you post please. You do know they are going to exist, then, and you know what they are?

And all of the kids you teach are going to get these jobs that don't exist yet. None of them are getting any of the boring jobs that currently exist?

We are preparing kids for jobs that don't yet exist. You have some learning to do on the subject. Here. educate yourself.

http://teachingandlearninginhighered.org/2013/07/15/preparing-students-for-what-we-cant-prepare-them-for/

[Guest]

We are preparing kids for jobs that don't yet exist. You have some learning to do on the subject. Here. educate yourself.

http://teachingandlearninginhighered.org/2013/07/15/preparing-students-for-what-we-cant-prepare-them-for/

I was under the impression you were talking about kids, not college students. My mistake.

But at least I know you aren't working on kids, so I don't feel too bad.

[LemonPureLeaf]

Please, for goodness sakes. Educate your children privately or at home.

[socialist]

I was under the impression you were talking about kids, not college students. My mistake.

But at least I know you aren't working on kids, so I don't feel too bad.

I am talking about school aged kids. We are preparing them for jobs that don't yet exist.

It's called 21st century skills. Many haven't heard of it.

http://21stcenturyskillsbook.com/wp-content/uploads/21stCS_excerpt.pdf

[Mighty AC]

Please, for goodness sakes. Educate your children privately or at home.

lmao! You're right, it's the only way we can properly teach our kids the world is 6,000 years old, women should be stay at home baby factories, brown people are terrorists, black people are criminals, gay people are abominations and those that believe in the wrong fairy tales will be sent to burn for eternity by a just and loving god. Did I miss any of the hidden home school curriculum? Oh wait, god wouldn't let climate change happen, terminating a pregnancy is a bad thing but terminating each other with guns is a good thing, terminating a suffering pet is a good thing but terminating a suffering human is bad. Home school is the only way to prevent our kids from developing a greater understanding of the world than ancient goat herders.

[carepov]

lmao! You're right, it's the only way we can properly teach our kids the world is 6,000 years old, women should be stay at home baby factories, brown people are terrorists, black people are criminals, gay people are abominations and those that believe in the wrong fairy tales will be sent to burn for eternity by a just and loving god. Did I miss any of the hidden home school curriculum? Oh wait, god wouldn't let climate change happen, terminating a pregnancy is a bad thing but terminating each other with guns is a good thing, terminating a suffering pet is a good thing but terminating a suffering human is bad. Home school is the only way to prevent our kids from developing a greater understanding of the world than ancient goat herders.

You are misinformed about homeschooling:

"homeschooling produces successful adults who are actively involved in their communities and who continue to value education for themselves and their children"

https://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/HomeschoolingGrowsUp.pdf

"homeschool students are scoring well above their public school peers on standardized tests."

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf

These people do not seem to fit your description of homeschoolers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeschooled_people

What are your homeschooling beliefs based on?

[guyser]

What are your homeschooling beliefs based on?

Certainly not the Homeschool Legall Defence Fund.

Guess what homeschoolers aren't taught? Impartiality.

Pretty much every other impartial test suggests that most homeschoolers are not getting the best education , and plenty of the parents refuse to have their kids tested.

It isnt all bad for sure....but for some its horrible.

[Mighty AC]

What are your homeschooling beliefs based on?

My response to the parody poster was based in part on said poster's expressed racist views and that 70% of parents cite religious reasons as an 'important' or the 'most important' reason for choosing to home school. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/05/not-all-homeschoolers-are-religious-but-many-are.html

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mighty AC

[carepov]

My response to the parody poster was based in part on said poster's expressed racist views and that 70% of parents cite religious reasons as an 'important' or the 'most important' reason for choosing to home school. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/05/not-all-homeschoolers-are-religious-but-many-are.html

hmmm...In the US, 64 % said that religious instruction was an important reason and 16% said that it was the most important reason. Where do you get 70% from?

Also, your own link seems to refute your post that I originally responded to:

"It is wrong to assume that all homeschoolers are religious (or that all religious homeschoolers are extremists)..."

[carepov]

Certainly not the Homeschool Legall Defence Fund.

Do you have any specific concerns about the studies or methodologies?

Guess what homeschoolers aren't taught? Impartiality.

Pretty much every other impartial test suggests that most homeschoolers are not getting the best education , and plenty of the parents refuse to have their kids tested.

It isnt all bad for sure....but for some its horrible.

Can you please provide some links to support these claims?

[Mighty AC]

hmmm...In the US, 64 % said that religious instruction was an important reason and 16% said that it was the most important reason. Where do you get 70% from?

Typo, I meant to key in 80%

Also, your own link seems to refute your post that I originally responded to:

"It is wrong to assume that all homeschoolers are religious (or that all religious homeschoolers are extremists)..."

That is the statement made by the blogger who was home schooled for religious reasons. However, she also points out that the two main identfiable home school groups are evangelicals and ultra progressives. Since, 80% cite religion as an important factor I think the evangelicals are the dominant player. The author may not consider creationist views to be extreme, but I certainly do.

[socialist]

I am an advocate of the public school system and feel that public schooling is vastly superior to homeschooling. People have to remember that public school is much more than just academics. Kids interact with all kinds of different kids, learning diversity and to tolerate differences. Kids in public schools learn to accept all others as equals.

I really wish people like Guyser and Mighty AC would think before they post.

Homeschooling isn't all bad. In fact we I was told by a university math professor, that academically, many homeschool kids who enter university are better prepared. But I am also quite sure that they are socially awkward. If you want your kids to have well rounded social/life schools, then public schools are the best option. If your focus is strictly academic, then yes, homeschooling can be better.

But we all know academics aren't the be all to end all in the 21st century.

[Queenmandy85]

I work at the University of Saskatchewan. I had a chat with a first year student who did not know who John Diefenbaker was. The Chief was one of our most famous graduates and is buried on Campus. We have students who don't know who the Head of State of Canada is. I had an Education Social Studies Foundations prof who did not know who the president of France was.

We are experiencing the impact of events that occurred between 500 and 1000 years ago and few Canadians know and understand history. The same can be said for the hard sciences and language arts.

I know teachers are a dedicated group but they have been cheated by the failings in our education system.

I know the response from some woould be that they can look it up online or in a library, but they don't and that is know way to get an understanding of the subject. We need to beging with a foundation knowledge in order to build understanding.

Something is seriously wrong with our education system and I do not see how 'Discovery learning' or PBL will correct that. I don't know what the answer is. I do know we have a massive problem.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Queenmandy85

[carepov]

Typo, I meant to key in 80%

That is the statement made by the blogger who was home schooled for religious reasons. However, she also points out that the two main identfiable home school groups are evangelicals and ultra progressives. Since, 80% cite religion as an important factor I think the evangelicals are the dominant player. The author may not consider creationist views to be extreme, but I certainly do.

It is a mistake to add the two because the second (16%) is already included in the first (64%). Did you attend public school?

[socialist]

I work at the University of Saskatchewan. I had a chat with a first year student who did not know who John Diefenbaker was. The Chief was one of our most famous graduates and is buried on Campus. We have students who don't know who the Head of State of Canada is. I had an Education Social Studies Foundations prof who did not know who the president of France was.

We are experiencing the impact of events that occurred between 500 and 1000 years ago and few Canadians know and understand history. The same can be said for the hard sciences and language arts.

I know teachers are a dedicated group but they have been cheated by the failings in our education system.

I know the response from some woould be that they can look it up online or in a library, but they don't and that is know way to get an understanding of the subject. We need to beging with a foundation knowledge in order to build understanding.

Something is seriously wrong with our education system and I do not see how 'Discovery learning' or PBL will correct that. I don't know what the answer is. I do know we have a massive problem.

I work at the University of Saskatchewan. I had a chat with a first year student who did not know who John Diefenbaker was. The Chief was one of our most famous graduates and is buried on Campus. We have students who don't know who the Head of State of Canada is. I had an Education Social Studies Foundations prof who did not know who the president of France was.

We are experiencing the impact of events that occurred between 500 and 1000 years ago and few Canadians know and understand history. The same can be said for the hard sciences and language arts.

I know teachers are a dedicated group but they have been cheated by the failings in our education system.

I know the response from some woould be that they can look it up online or in a library, but they don't and that is know way to get an understanding of the subject. We need to beging with a foundation knowledge in order to build understanding.

Something is seriously wrong with our education system and I do not see how 'Discovery learning' or PBL will correct that. I don't know what the answer is. I do know we have a massive problem.

Academics simply isn't the main focus anymore. We teach about the environment, diversity, tolerance, digital literacy, cyber safety, sex education, citizenship, art, inclusion. We are required, by provincial guidelines, to teach about 300 minutes of math a week. There are more important things.

[Queenmandy85]

To understand environmental issues, the student must first have a firm knowledge of math, chemistry and physics.

Citizenship requires a grounding in history and geography. A well rounded citizen must be able to make decisions and vote based upon knowledge developed over a long period of time. If your student asks you why there is turmoil in the middle east, where will he find the answer? Certainly not online.

I agree with much of what you say, but I worry that we will be graduating students who will be ill equipped to make decisions on many of the important issues facing them.

Also, please, teach your students the word is 'social,' not 'societal.'

Edited March 26, 2015 by Queenmandy85

[Ash74]

Academics simply isn't the main focus anymore. We teach about the environment, diversity, tolerance, digital literacy, cyber safety, sex education, citizenship, art, inclusion. We are required, by provincial guidelines, to teach about 300 minutes of math a week. There are more important things.

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.

George Santayana

Knowing why we teach our children about these things are a good reason not too repeat past mistakes.

Do our children know why the environment is polluted?

Why we teach diversity after the horrors of prejudice?

I cannot understand why a person that claims to be a teacher would think it is not important to know how we got here, Who showed us a better way and why we curse the monsters and mistakes of the past.

The closed minded comments you make is why we all do not believe a person like you could be trusted to teach students