Should Jewish Students be Excluded from Student-Run Board Based on Rel

[Bob Macadoo]

There was no mention of any extremist organization to which the girl belonged, unless you consider Judaism extremist.

“Given that you are a Jewish student and very active in the Jewish community,”

Where is the question in that with regards to her extremism?

Seems to me the extremism was on the part of those doing the questioning, and only them.

If you were on that council, would you have not asked a muslim what groups they are part of?

[Michael Hardner]

Well, you know, when I see something irrelevant in a post I simply ignore it in my reply, or don't reply. Is that too difficult for you?

I was going to do that but then I realized I had nothing to reply to. Yes, it is.

[TimG]

The Judicial Council is the Supreme Court of that University. I would think that they would be very careful that students who apply do so for positive and educational reasons and not to satisfy a personal, political agenda.

What is the pay for this position? If it is purely voluntary then your criteria are useless because the only applicants will be people with strong opinions on various topics. The only question is whether they have a personality that allows them to set aside those opinions in the performance of their duties. In this case there appears to be no discussion of whether she was able to set aside those opinions - only that she might have them and they did not comply with the oppressive yoke of politically correctness. This was enough to disqualifies her.

That said, if this particular committee has an equal opportunity track record of rejecting people with strong opinions then my assumptions would be clearly wrong. I suspect this is not the case because the board decision was not supported by faculty and ultimately reversed (who knows what was said behind closed doors).

Edited March 10, 2015 by TimG

[kimmy]

Why do you assume she was Caucasian?

Well, most of the articles about this incident have a picture of Miss Beyda, so, you know, that's a pretty good clue.

So, I read some articles about this, and watched some of the video from the council meeting. And it is clear that some pro-Palestinian student council members didn't want a Jewish person on the council because they felt that she would oppose their agenda.

The UCLA student council had a heated debate an vote over an anti-Israel BDS ("boycott, divest, sanctions") resolution just a few months ago. Two of the students who voted against Rachel Beyda-- Manjot Singh and Negeen Sadeghi-Movahed-- were co-sponsors of the BDS resolution that council debated in November.

The first student-- Fabienne Roth-- who began questioning Beyda asked point blank how she could be unbiased, given that she's active in the Jewish community. When that question was called inappropriate by the council president (who is himself Jewish), a second student-- Ms Sadeghi-Movahed-- asked if she could rephrase the question by rewording it to question whether Beyda perceived a "conflict of interest", rather than discussing Beyda's religion directly. A third student-- Mr Singh-- questions whether she understands what "conflict of interest" actually means.

Later, Fabienne Roth accused Israeli-born council president Avinoam Baral of nominating Beyda to be a "political pawn". In November, Baral had expressed frustration at being unable to participate in the debate regarding the BDS resolution. As council president, he was not allowed to speak or vote on the issue unless it was a tie, in which case he would have been allowed to cast a deciding vote. But as the pro-BDS side won the vote handily, Baral had no opportunity to express his views.

Baral had been Internal VP, but just prior to the debate on the BDS resolution the President stepped down, forcing Baral, the #2 guy on council, to assume the duties and leaving him unable to participate. There seems to be some belief that the former president, who was strongly pro-BDS, stepped down precisely for the reason of making Baral unable to participate.

-k

[Bonam]

Yep... those are the people voting in these bds resolutions, same folks that think being Jewish should disqualify you from holding positions of influence. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

[Rue]

I disagree with JBG on a lot of things. Its what we Jews do, especially Zionist Jews at that. We have many different opinions and are not afraid to debate them.

On other things we are connected by the realization that no matter what we say or do, people will stereotype us for being Jews.

Neither of us loses sleep over it.

Neither of us will develop moral outrage at what Argus said. We know exactly what he was getting at. Extremism in ANY form or in the form of extree orthodox religious practices bugs us. We are not afraid to say so.

What a crock Michael H. I expected you to hide from your comments.

Here I am.

Here I am saying, Argus makes the same comments about ANY extremist religious beliefs. He hates them all.

How about you Michael H?

Yah I dig the moral selectivity. Someone criticizes Muslim extremism and there you are accusing them of being anti Muslim.

Oh how incorrect.

Now?

Go on finish your lecture to Argus. Will you call him anti Jewish because he can't stand extremist orthodox religious practices? Go on finish the moral outrage...finish what you started.

The point I made and you bloody know what Argus was making, was that extremist religious practices are not compatible in modern democracies.

They clash head on with the basic and fundamental principles of democracy and some of us are not afraid to say it.

You want to play high almighty Liberal and pretend everyone is equal and can be accommodated go for it.

Here though is what I think demonstrated from your past arguments. I believe you are as bias as the people you claim are bias. I believe the only difference between you and a bigot is that you follow the trendy politically appropriate biases of the day. Otherwise you are just as selective and bias in your opinions and outrage.

I know I am full of biases Michael H how about you and everyone else on this forum?

You just don't get it. You have no idea just how lily white albino you come off on some threads. Stop putting so much mayonnaise on your food dude and just once try some paprika baby. Oh what is he saying. Wake up. The very reason this young woman was questioned over her Jewishness was the same politically appropriate exercise in the name of protecting tolerance you advocate Michael H.

What is the difference between you and Jacee anyways? She is an out and out bigot. She will see only one side of the Jew-Zionist equation what about you? You really think you understand what went into that selective screening? It was the same friggin liberal trendy horsesheeyit you peddle. The one that assumes any criticism of Muslim extremism is anti Muslim but when it comes to Jews, did you have the balls to finish your accusation and accuse Argus of being anti Jewish/ Why not? What did you mean dismissing his comment as you did in a holier then thou he's making an irrational stereotype comment?

Oh I dig. Only this Jew says, he has the right to be honest and state what he thinks. He showed no hatred of Jews, or Judaism. Go on finish it. Why was what he said inappropriate? Where are you and your indignation on this forum when you read over and over the blatant negative stereotypes of jes flowing from the pretext of criticizing Israel's right to exist as a Jewish stat? Where were you with the ZIonist is cancer comments?

Any moral outrage when holocaust survivors were ridiculed for choosing to flee to Israel? Not a friggin peep.

Save it Michael H. Been there done that. Been to those clubs where everyone sneers through their teeth with that fake smile, nose in the air,

affected intellectualization. You want a stereotype. Here have a few.People like you, snitty snotty liberal appropriates, make me want to puke. You fart in crowded elevators and stink them up no different then anyone else but you stand there as if your smell is like a privileged perfume for the masses to take in.

Thanks the first thing I do in clubs like yours is to leave. I can't stand constipated people who think their farts smell better.

[Michael Hardner]

He hates them all.

How about you Michael H?

I don't hate anybody, I follow what I believe is the core value of Christianity which is the Golden Rule.

Go on finish the moral outrage...finish what you started.

There's plenty of moral outrage on MLW. Glad to hear that you are taking a stand against it. I'm talking about embarrassment, though. Not the same.

I know I am full of biases Michael H how about you and everyone else on this forum?

Oh, God yes. I'm full of biases and not perfect at all, though some of you seem to think I think otherwise.

You just don't get it. You have no idea just how lily white albino you come off on some threads.

That's an interesting way to frame your perspective on me. You sure think about me more than I think about you, and it's fascinating.

Any moral outrage when holocaust survivors were ridiculed for choosing to flee to Israel? Not a friggin peep.

I don't think I saw that comment, sorry.

People like you, snitty snotty liberal appropriates, make me want to puke. You fart in crowded elevators and stink them up no different then anyone else but you stand there as if your smell is like a privileged perfume for the masses to take in.

Uh... I thought you were criticizing me for harbouring moral outrage ? Hmmmmmm....

[Big Guy]

To Michael - I commend you for trying. When you deal with someone who appears to have a philosophy of "either you are with me or you are against me" then you will never have a reasonable discussion. This victim mentality, a passive-aggressive response to any criticism viewed as a threat, negates the ability for any kind of reasoned or objective response. It is more prominent in minority groups and often used as an excuse for lack of success or perceived persecution. You will always be wrong and be blamed for being anti something.

It is not something you can change through discussion. I believe that is why many posters have given up trying. Lotsa luck!

[guyser]

Somebody...once again....is off their meds.

[Rue]

I don't hate anybody, I follow what I believe is the core value of Christianity which is the Golden Rule.

Really? The "I'm a good Christian" card?

I give you less than a minute living next door to someone cooking with khouri.

"The problem is that many Christians seem to see themselves as having received more light than others, and The tendency is to feel or act holier or doing better than others in the Christian race...

Yet, no Christian ever openly admits that he or she probably has a "holier than thou" or "I know better than you" attitude towards another person or group of persons - Christian or non-Christian

Nwankama W Nwankama

"Don't look for more honor than your learning merits."

Jewish Proverb

"We have Christians against Muslims against Jews, and no matter how liberal your theology, merely identifying yourself as a Christian or a Jew lends tacit validity to this status quo. People have morally identified with a subset of humanity rather than with humanity as a whole."

Sam Harris

"The moment he starts preaching open a window. He'll suck the air up in no time."

Rue

Edited March 10, 2015 by Rue

[jbg]

To Michael - I commend you for trying. When you deal with someone who appears to have a philosophy of "either you are with me or you are against me" then you will never have a reasonable discussion. This victim mentality, a passive-aggressive response to any criticism viewed as a threat, negates the ability for any kind of reasoned or objective response. It is more prominent in minority groups and often used as an excuse for lack of success or perceived persecution. You will always be wrong and be blamed for being anti something.

That is not how I operate. It seems as if you are making a veiled attack on me.

[Bob Macadoo]

That is not how I operate. It seems as if you are making a veiled attack on me.

.....really? You couldn't see who the comment was for?

Edited March 10, 2015 by Bob Macadoo

[Moonlight Graham]

The only way I'd see her belonging to certain Jewish organizations as a possible problem or potential conflict of interest is if the groups she were involved in were one that were very blindly one-sided "pro-Israel" (and/or anti-Palestinian) to the point where it would be seriously questioned whether she would be able to remain objective and fair when it comes to the inevitable Israel vs Palestine issues that pop up on virtually every campus (ie: controversial student groups/signs or posters/guest speakers/protests etc.). This could also work in reverse with a Muslim student on council. But this isn't attacking her identity but her own views in regards to her identity (ie: you don't have to be a Jew to have show extremely biased or one-sided views).

I haven't seen an indication that this is the case, however.

[kimmy]

And if there were a lot of those Haradim around I'd be an anti-Semite myself, simply based on their behaviour.

Haradim are a real problem. A not funny situation occurred in nearby Rockland. One Haradi went to worship at a different shul than he was "supposed" to. They tried to burn him alive as he slept.

I don't want to contribute to thread drift, but I wanted to mention... I understand exactly what Argus means in saying he'd probably become an anti-Semite if he had to live among the Haredi.

There's some appalling news stories that come not from the Middle East, but from enclaves like Williamsburg New York. Women being harassed for their clothes, gender-segregated buses, aggressive proselytizing, harassment of non-Jews in the neighborhood. I read pretty recently about a plane headed for Israel from New York that was delayed for hours because a group of Hasidic Jews refused to sit near women. They eventually managed to arrange for other flights for some of the other passengers so that the group of Jewish men could sit by themselves. Once the flight was in the air, the men walked up and down the aisle chanting prayers loudly for 10 hours; one passenger described it as "a nightmare".

I think that surrounded by such people, one would quickly forget that they don't represent the whole community, because like anything else the obnoxious few create a bad impression of the whole.

-k

[Rue]

Thank you Kimmy.Argus sure as hell was not an anti semite for saying that and excuse me if I puke at the two faced selective righteousness on this board where some people put themselves on a pedestal and try act holier then thou and even moderate a thread they are a participant in.

Argus and I and many others are going to speak out against religious extremism of ANY kind. We don't hide from comments and debate. We don't try smeer such discussion as anti Muslim, etc.

I think its actually hilarious. I am going to attack Argus with a bagel if I see him. Maybe some smoked meat.

I tried to state in another post that in a way everyone of us sells out or is hateful to our biases. None of us are perfect. I was censored by Michael H for being a troll for using a slang word for prostitute to say that.

So I will refrain from using the slang word and repeat all of us hate and have biases. Denying we have them is precisely what causes this politically correct bull crap that tries to screen out Jews or anyone else.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Rue

[GostHacked]

That is not how I operate. It seems as if you are making a veiled attack on me.

You think everyone is making these kinds of comments about you when clearly they are not. Everyone out to get you?

[GostHacked]

Thank you Kimmy.Argus sure as hell was not an anti semite for saying that and excuse me if I puke at the two faced selective righteousness on this board where some people put themselves on a pedestal and try act holier then thou and even moderate a thread they are a participant in.

Argus and I and many others are going to speak out against religious extremism of ANY kind. We don't hide from comments and debate. We don't try smeer such discussion as anti Muslim, etc.

So why don't you speak out about other religious extremism?

[Rue]

Zip over your head Ghost. Why the hell do you think I am defending Argus?

" participating on the MapleLeaf web forum reminds me of Jed trying to explain the facts of life to Jethro."

-Rue-

" does anyone really think Sunny Drysdale was interested in anything but Elly Mae's dress?"

-Rue-

" Toto I don't think we are in Kansas anymore."

Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz

[GostHacked]

What are you trying to say Rue? Your last post was not exactly clear.

[Argus]

If you were on that council, would you have not asked a muslim what groups they are part of?

She wasn't asked what groups she was part of. She was accused of being Jewish and being active in the Jewish community.

[Argus]

I was going to do that but then I realized I had nothing to reply to.

And yet, you chose to reply anyway.

[Argus]

This victim mentality, a passive-aggressive response to any criticism viewed as a threat, negates the ability for any kind of reasoned or objective response.

OhmyGod! I may just have overdosed on irony for the entire year reading this poster write that statement!

[Argus]

That is not how I operate. It seems as if you are making a veiled attack on me.

I saw it more as self-confession...

[Argus]

I don't want to contribute to thread drift, but I wanted to mention... I understand exactly what Argus means in saying he'd probably become an anti-Semite if he had to live among the Haredi.

It's bad enough how some of them act here, but in Israel they're worse. They have the numbers there to basically force their way of thinking on whole areas around them. They do so by violence and intimidation. They will stone buses running on the sabath, for example, set fire to business they disapprove of, or gather around women who they think are not dressed conservatively enough, and spit on them - repeatedly. More than half the men refuse to do any work, spending all their time praying and on welfare. Their growth rate is a major challenge and threat to the Jewish state as they are already over 10% of the population and have large families.