Quebec Man Arrested For Withholding Phone Password

[GostHacked]

But only because they don't follow the law and it is a farce. I have nothing to hide.

I dont use a cell.

Good luck getting useful info out of my Globalstar1600 sat phone.

Sat phones are no more secure than your normal handsets.

[nerve]

If Customs asks for a laptop to be turned on, or cell phone, and neither passowrd protected then they can search all they want........and should they find evidence of a crime they can arrest. Same as a Border Guard can arrst you for drunk driving, although they do turn you over to locals for processing.For some things yesNo idea what you wrote here.

Although the court has ruled that an officer can hold on to that person's phone and try to crack the security code, an individual has no obligation to give police a cellphone password, under the charter right to silence.

If non routine search that is an invasive search I don't got to do nothing.

I have the option of calling counsel. Other than that they got to take care of all my needs.

It is charter right to enter and leave Canada.

No law broken I walk away after they waste time and tax dollars. Obstruction is an act not a non act.

My assistance is non interference in the search.

As soon as possible I must be brought before a JP

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[guyser]

Although the court has ruled that an officer can hold on to that person's phone and try to crack the security code, an individual has no obligation to give police a cellphone password, under the charter right to silence.

Why not just say..'I agree' ?

If non routine search that is an invasive search I don't got to do nothing.

You gots to do nothing but stand there while they search everything you have. And they can xray anything they want to see whats inside it.

In have the option of calling counsel. Other than that they got to take care of all my needs.

You dont have the option of counsel at the border until you are arrested.

[nerve]

Why not just say..'I agree' ?You gots to do nothing but stand there while they search everything you have. And they can xray anything they want to see whats inside it.You dont have the option of counsel at the border until you are arrested.

Not anything.

xraying cannot be conducted without consent on people. Certain items can be destroyed by xrays.

Per Wilson J.: The constitutionality of appellant's strip search cannot be determined solely on the basis of whether there has been compliance with ss. 143 and 144 of the Customs Act . These statutory provisions must be read in accord with the obligation under s. 10 ( of the Charter to inform those who are detained of their right to retain and instruct counsel and to respect that right. Any limit on the constitutionally guaranteed right to counsel, if it is to be valid under s. 1 of the Charter , has to be "prescribed by law". Sections 143 and 144 have to be examined to see whether a limit is provided for expressly or by necessary implication or through the operating requirements of the sections: see R. v. Therens, [1985] 1 S.C.R. 613, and R. v. Thomsen, [1988] 1 S.C.R. 640. There is nothing in ss. 143 and 144 which is incompatible with the right to counsel, nor do their operating requirements preclude such a right. Therefore, the violation of appellant's s. 10 ( rights prior to the search renders the search unconstitutional given the complete compatibility of the authorizing statutory search provisions with the right to retain and instruct counsel without delay which is guaranteed in the Constitution. An unconstitutional search cannot be a reasonable one.

Point being counsel should have occurred before arrest, as one the guy was detained and 2. They had to inform him of his right to counsel Else the search was unconstitutional thus an unreasonable search.

R. v. Singh [2007] 3 S.C.R. 405: In Singh, the Supreme Court of Canada held that the right to silence applies any time that an individual interacts with a person in authority.

Passengers selected for additional screening, can choose to pass through the FBS (where available) or to undergo a physical search (see previous section.)

What you should know:

Physical searches can be conducted at the screening line or in a private search room.

Passengers may ask that the pat-down be conducted in a private search room. CATSA is obliged to provide a room or curtained-off area for this purpose.

When conducted in a private search room, two Screening Officers of the same gender as the passenger must be present. One will conduct the search and the other serves as a witness.

If you or your belongings are selected for additional screening, you may request that the Screening Officers wear gloves

Passengers may request a hand search at pre-board screening to avoid potential damage to film). For more details visit the CATSA website

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[guyser]

I have no idea what language you are using. Apologies if harsh, but none of a good portion of your posts are readible.

[overthere]

It is charter right to enter and leave Canada.

On the other hand, there is no 'right' to a passport and it permanently remains the property fo the govt.

And today you cannot go through land or air borders anywhere without one.

So the charter right boils down to a right to leave Canada and be sent back immediately on the next carrier without being able to enter any other country. The charter does not apply anywhere else.

[nerve]

On the other hand, there is no 'right' to a passport and it permanently remains the property fo the govt.

And today you cannot go through land or air borders anywhere without one.

So the charter right boils down to a right to leave Canada and be sent back immediately on the next carrier without being able to enter any other country. The charter does not apply anywhere else.

Actually no, it is issued in the name of the Queen.. It isthe holders responsibility to protect it from damage, and theft. It may be requested returned. The physical passport is the individuals personal property, but the issue can be revoked, it is lawful to posses invalid passports but not valid to use them fraudulently issued. Government issued ID could be confiscated in limited circumstances, it isn't per se te federal governments property though, no more than your house or car.

No it is fully legal to enter and leave Canada at anypoint.

No passport is required.

Any law that infringes that is unconstitutional.

I have been told by passport Canada multiple times of that fact and even recommended to travel that way by them.

There is no illegality whatsoever to travel without a passport.

Airlines have their own responsibilities based on transport Canada provisions, however the individual is not bound to those regulations.

There are bilateral contexts however which make travel impractical without one though, for instance you have only limited entry options based on US law, has nothing to do with Canadian law, such as needing to report to a border point and it would require filling out forms, medical or other emergency matters. In general the idea is they want you to be IDed so they can determine admisability.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2012/10/30/canadaus-border-not-totally-impassable-without-passport

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[overthere]

Baloney.

Line 1 Page 1 of my Canadian passport says " This passport is the property of the government of Canada"

There is nothing ambiguous about that statement.

Yews, I get it that you can leave Canada without a passport. But a) how would you get on any international flight and how would you enter the US legally by land or sea without one? Hmmmmm?

[nerve]

Baloney.

Line 1 Page 1 of my Canadian passport says " This passport is the property of the government of Canada"

There is nothing ambiguous about that statement.

Yews, I get it that you can leave Canada without a passport. But a) how would you get on any international flight and how would you enter the US legally by land or sea without one? Hmmmmm?

I don't care to go in depth on this as I hope to god no good person needs to travel internationally without a passport.

The individual holder has duty control and responsibility. It is their property as it is issued, however they are also acting as an agent of the gov. Under statute.

I bet your name is on it too.

Just cause something says it doesnt make it.

The government claim is the same to your house, car etc... As long as you don't break the rules on ownership it is yours.

Under the passport order.

Every passport

© shall at all times remain the property of Her Majesty in right of Canada;

Bear in mind this does not exclude bilateral property rights and allowances.

Joint property ownership is primate facie if certain conditions exist. Claim is not a sole right.

It does not say the sole property.

Common property" is ownership by more than one person of the same possession

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[Wilber]

Argue the semantics all you want in reality you can't travel without a passport. No carrier of any kind will let you board without the documentation required by the destination country, because they will be on the hook for putting you up and returning you when you are denied entry.

[nerve]

Argue the semantics all you want in reality you can't travel without a passport. No carrier of any kind will let you board without the documentation required by the destination country, because they will be on the hook for putting you up and returning you when you are denied entry.

That is definitely how it appears but people do it. That is travel without their lawfully issued passport.

I don't recommend this but note provincial drivers license as a screening option in place of a passport for flying in the us

http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/acceptable-ids

Acceptable IDs for screening purposes include:

U.S. passport

U.S. passport card

DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)

U.S. military ID (active duty or retired military and their dependents, and DoD civilians)

Permanent resident card

Border crossing card

DHS-designated enhanced driver's license

Driver's licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent) for the sole purpose of identification

Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID

HSPD-12 PIV card

Airline or airport-issued ID (if issued under a TSA-approved security plan)

Foreign government-issued passport

Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card

Transportation Worker Identification Credential

I also need to add that it isn't the passport req for boarding but a "travel document" that is not only a passport

Here is the basics in Canada http://www.ppt.gc.ca/pptc/documents.aspx?lang=eng

There are others.

If it ain't normal expect a headache and probeache.

Edited March 10, 2015 by nerve

[WWWTT]

Nah bag searches are considered routine.

So maybe you can go and convince WWWTT of that.

Never thought any differently

WWWTT

[Wilber]

That is definitely how it appears but people do it. That is travel without their lawfully issued passport.

I don't recommend this but note provincial drivers license as a screening option in place of a passport for flying in the ushttp://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/acceptable-ids

Acceptable IDs for screening purposes include:

U.S. passport

U.S. passport card

DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)

U.S. military ID (active duty or retired military and their dependents, and DoD civilians)

Permanent resident card

Border crossing card

DHS-designated enhanced driver's license

Driver's licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent) for the sole purpose of identification

Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID

HSPD-12 PIV card

Airline or airport-issued ID (if issued under a TSA-approved security plan)

Foreign government-issued passport

Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card

Transportation Worker Identification Credential

I also need to add that it isn't the passport req for boarding but a "travel document" that is not only a passport

Here is the basics in Canada http://www.ppt.gc.ca/pptc/documents.aspx?lang=eng

There are others.

If it ain't normal expect a headache and probeache.

You will need what the Americans say you need and right now you need a passport, enhanced drivers license or NEXUS and you won't get a NEXUS or any other trusted traveller card without a valid passport. If you have a NEXUS and get a new passport, you have to take it to a NEXUS office and show it. Edited March 10, 2015 by Wilber

[guyser]

You will need what the Americans say you need and right now you need a passport, enhanced drivers license or NEXUS and you won't get a NEXUS without a valid passport. If you have a NEXUS and get a new passport, you have to take it to a NEXUS office and show it.

Pretty much , but I know that in some cases the US guards will allow a trip in with only a DL and some corresponding ID to confirm the first.

Now it would be a huge crap shoot to try it , but in the case I mentioned they totally forgot. I am speaking of ground travel , I doubt any Customs would waive it at an airport

[overthere]

I am speaking of ground travel , I doubt any Customs would waive it at an airport

You'd never get as far as US Customs and Immigration because no airline would issue you a boarding card without a passport and a proper visa if one is required for entry to your destination.

And your passport belongs to the govt, case closed. That allows them to keep it, cancel it, revoke it or not issue one if they so choose.

[Derek 2.0]

It could, but then your house could contain mountains of child pornography. I think the police should kick in your door and while they're at it just do random checks around your neighbourhood.

Unless your home is a Winnebago and you're crossing international borders with it, I don't see your point......clearly rules and (expectations to) rights differ between domestic policing and the crossing of borders, as such, so to do the laws governing the CBSA and Canadian domestic police.

[cybercoma]

Because, like I said earlier, they're not just investigating what you've picked up in another country and brought back with you, they can go through your entire phone's history, including things unrelated to your international travel.

[Smallc]

Because, like I said earlier, they're not just investigating what you've picked up in another country and brought back with you, they can go through your entire phone's history, including things unrelated to your international travel.

It's related to your travel because you're the one traveling. Who you are and what you've done should influence what you can do.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Smallc

[Big Guy]

The joke is that with all of this security and red tape there are thousands of places on the Canada-USA border where you can walk across without being confronted by anyone. There are towns like Stanstead Quebec and hundreds of miles of a border in the middle of farm land. Most of these places also have a "secret" unmanned access/exit from Canada and the USA for locals who cross a few times every day.

Every day there are personal water craft which sail between Canada and the USA from small port to small port (across the Great Lakes) which are never checked by border crossing guards.

You are "supposed" to radio into the closest port which has customs and guards when you cross over. Often the distance is less then 40 miles from Canada to the USA.

But - we continue to play this scare game and keep the public supporting draconian laws.

We are still being played like fine fiddle.

[guyser]

The joke is that with all of this security and red tape there are thousands of places on the Canada-USA border where you can walk across without being confronted by anyone.

But likely to be known you are there.

Every day there are personal water craft which sail between Canada and the USA from small port to small port (across the Great Lakes) which are never checked by border crossing guards.

Point of clairification, there are very few pwc's going between the top countries. Boats, sail or otherwise yes. Pwc's...not so much.

They look at you and watch you as you are crossing the lake (ONtario in this instance)from miles out. They will watch you and see if any shady shenanigans are being done.

When you get closer they'll have logged your boat name etc into the computer to get matched up with your ID when you call in to report to Customs. If they are satisfied you will get a Customs Clearance # that you must keep in case other patrolling US ICE or CDN CBSA ask about it (in which case they have the answer before asking the question)

And in the case you dont report in , they send out a boat to really F up your day. We didnt call in, the ICE boat was sent but someone at the Marina fiogured out we hadnt and got us on the phone to check in. We could hear them cancel the boat and they gave us the security pass number .

Frankly we were too drunk and having too much fun with Bernie Koppell (Get Smart / Love Boat).....Shhhhhmmmmmaaaaaart?

DO not think either side has no clue who you are or where you are.

Torono Police Marine Unit is a prime gig for most of the year. Wanna know why? They sit up in that tower and check out babes on the multitudes of boats out on the lake.

They can read a tag on a bikini from 3 miles away. So while you may think you away from anyone, some cop is smiling while the women on the boat get topless.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Guyser2

[bush_cheney2004]

...Every day there are personal water craft which sail between Canada and the USA from small port to small port (across the Great Lakes) which are never checked by border crossing guards.

Guess again.....

[Derek 2.0]

Because, like I said earlier, they're not just investigating what you've picked up in another country and brought back with you, they can go through your entire phone's history, including things unrelated to your international travel.

Then the solutions are simple:

1. Don't cross borders

2. Don't cross borders with your personal electronic devices

3. If you cross borders with your electronic devices, ensure you don't have anything encompassing criminal activity on said devices.

4. If you cross borders with something criminal on your device, roll the dice and gamble the CBSA agent doesn't bring you into secondary and asks to inspect your electronic device.

I don't see the issue here......

[Derek 2.0]

But likely to be known you are there.

Point of clairification, there are very few pwc's going between the top countries. Boats, sail or otherwise yes. Pwc's...not so much.

They look at you and watch you as you are crossing the lake (ONtario in this instance)from miles out. They will watch you and see if any shady shenanigans are being done.

When you get closer they'll have logged your boat name etc into the computer to get matched up with your ID when you call in to report to Customs. If they are satisfied you will get a Customs Clearance # that you must keep in case other patrolling US ICE or CDN CBSA ask about it (in which case they have the answer before asking the question)

Yes indeed, post 9/11 and being implemented in 2006, all maritime traffic is tracked in both North American waters and approaches to, by not only the various border and transport agencies of Canada/United States, but also security agencies and the military....in the case of the military, the expansion of the NORAD mandate and the creation of USNORTHCOM.......

[guyser]

Yes indeed, post 9/11 and being implemented in 2006, all maritime traffic is tracked in both North American waters and approaches to, by not only the various border and transport agencies of Canada/United States, but also security agencies and the military....in the case of the military, the expansion of the NORAD mandate and the creation of USNORTHCOM.......

Post ....pre...its been this way since long before 9-11.

[Derek 2.0]

Post ....pre...its been this way since long before 9-11.

Yes and no. Pre 9/11 the ability to observe and collect such information was certainly present, but said information was often underutilized.....in essence, the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing.............