On Guard for Thee Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 That's just it. When people start reading the bill they start to express concerns. But even that can be politicized and manipulated by calling other senators or anyone unpatriotic or terrorist supporters. This brings me to another concern, how many in government are reading the bills that are passed? And is this why things end up at the SCC? Someone is not doing their job. One thing that seems common with Harper is drafting these huge omnibus bills that effect many laws and then limiting debate time at committee and or invoking closure. That I suppose could limit proper scrutiny of such bills but drafting the thing in the first place is where you would hope some lawyers get a look at it. It almost seems as though Harper keeps trying to poke a stick in the eye of the SC. Quote
Black Dog Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 If the terrorist threat is so bad as to justify new legislation, why is the RCMP turning marginalized people towards terrorism? John Nuttall, 40, and wife Amanda Korody, 31, have pleaded not guilty to four terrorism-related charges that involve a supposed plot, inspired by Tsarnaev and his brother, to bomb 2013 Canada Day celebrations in Victoria. But it was part of a sophisticated sting orchestrated over five months by the RCMP, and no one was ever at risk. The Mounties took the impoverished pair on weekends to Whistler and the Okanagan to relax; staged a meth-lab emergency in their neighbourhood complete with haz-mat response team as a cover to plant bugs in their apartment; provided food when the couple was hungry; drove them shopping for bomb parts and to pick up methadone; rented a Delta motel room for them to assemble timers and meet other undercover officers pretending to be extremists; and finally, transportation to Vancouver Island and the Legislature where they filmed the two hiding three inert IEDs. The national police force even provided the black Islamic flag the two used as a backdrop for a video message urging jihad that they hoped would be released on the Internet if they died or were captured. Later, the RCMP arrested them. Link Quote
jacee Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 You can't make that comparison with this poll's results. No, I was clarifying where the two different estimates came from. To me, the politically important issue facing politicians now is whether Bill C51 can pass as is, as Harper would like. It's not looking good for that. . Quote
guyser Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 If the terrorist threat is so bad as to justify new legislation, why is the RCMP turning marginalized people towards terrorism?As well I know it s a rhteorical question, the answer is it fits the agenda of our sitting Gov't. They can point and smile and say see see see ! We told you! And the dummies in this country can grunt , scratch their bellies, peek out from under the bed and say "Yup...we gots to do it" in their best Cletus the Slack jawed yokel voice. Quote
jbg Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 Harper learned from Preston Manning, who by the way, has now also turned on him, in various ways, as has Joe Clark who has signed on with 3 other former PMs to criticize this bill. Suggesting there is anything near oversight in this bill indicates you have a serious lack of knowledge of the bill as written. Your simple little flagpole statement about support for the bill and therefore Canada indicates same, and is equally as irritating is the repetitive talking points the Harper drones spew day after day. If you dont approve of the constitution of this country, perhaps move away. So, Kinsella has now turned on the Liberal Party. Is dog biting man news? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 Its quite obvious that Canada needs bill C51 in order to protect her from terrorists foreign and domestic.It is certainly not.OK, you win. What parts of C51 do you find objectionable? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
On Guard for Thee Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 OK, you win. What parts of C51 do you find objectionable? How about the parts that jeopardize the charter while not doing much more than the laws we already have... Quote
jbg Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 How about the parts that jeopardize the charter while not doing much more than the laws we already have... I'm in suspense. What parts? Does freedom of religion for example include the right to conduct honor killings? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
On Guard for Thee Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 I'm in suspense. What parts? Does freedom of religion for example include the right to conduct honor killings? Not going to answer any more stupid right wing questions. Quote
eyeball Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 If the terrorist threat is so bad as to justify new legislation, why is the RCMP turning marginalized people towards terrorism? I wouldn't put it past the Harper State to instruct them to engineer close calls to galvanize Canadians. I wouldn't put it past them for a minute. That story emerging around that pair of bozos the cops set up in Victoria is sure reminiscent of the Mr Big gambit a scam that's got cops in trouble before. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Big_(police_procedure) Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
On Guard for Thee Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 I wouldn't put it past the Harper State to instruct them to engineer close calls to galvanize Canadians. I wouldn't put it past them for a minute. That story emerging around that pair of bozos the cops set up in Victoria is sure reminiscent of the Mr Big gambit a scam that's got cops in trouble before. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Big_(police_procedure) It does have an obvious similarity. There is irony if Ive ever seen it, the national police force aiding would be terrorists. They have a term for that kind of thing, namely AIDING and ABETTING. You and I would be in jail for doing the same thing. Quote
jacee Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 OK, you win. What parts of C51 do you find objectionable? What parts did you write? Quote
Black Dog Posted March 20, 2015 Report Posted March 20, 2015 OK, you win. What parts of C51 do you find objectionable? Why don't you just read what I've said on the subject already? I'm in suspense. What parts? Does freedom of religion for example include the right to conduct honor killings? What does of C51 have to do with honour killings? Quote
cybercoma Posted March 20, 2015 Report Posted March 20, 2015 What does of C51 have to do with honour killings? Well, you know, C-51 is about Muslims, as opposed to any other kinds of terrorism, and Sikhs are kind of like Muslims. Quote
nerve Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) OK, you win. What parts of C51 do you find objectionable?Why though?How many attacks have happened since, is owning a car or gun grounds for monitoring after c51? Why even require reason rather than suspicion to torture someone, destroy their life, and defame them? I think the issue is that it does jack shet to prevent what happened. You might as well just make a law requiring muslims to wear an armband. Let's see if I can find other recommendations. Here is one from wikipedia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge http://remember.org/guide/Facts.root.solution.html Let us now infuse that with organized gang stalking. Step 4 a decree euphemistically called, "For the Protection of the People and State," suspending all of the basic rights of citizens and imposing the death sentence for arson, sabotage, resistance to the decree, and disturbances to public order.Arrests could be made on suspicion, and people could be sentenced to prison without trial or the right of counsel. Personally, the problem is with secret courts detainments and arrests, how will Canadians know what is going on? And why wasn't the security certificate system enough? 1. They are already monitoring and running and manipulating online terror sources. The us dragnets everything. Terror busts have been by tips from the us. The law is to plug Canadian Intel into us networks. People flagged by nets such as prism will become targets for "organized group stalking" aka coinintelpro KGB ish. This is based on ability to conduct an attack not the intent to. Also political basis ala fusion centre indexing. This makes Canada a fussion center.... That is c51. It is an extension of the us mass surveillance and interdiction systems. Fusion Canada https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=ZNoNVe-hL8uYyAS0pYKIBg&url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_center&ved=0CB8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGE9CgVwAPGvTLhyr5kn9wYQGR2Cg&sig2=BKD6m3DheUq1nLua4rxM8g http://www.dhs.gov/national-network-fusion-centers-fact-sheet Key term Information Sharing Environment (ISE) http://www.ise.gov Key concept suspicious, non normative = threat, = detainment Edited March 21, 2015 by nerve Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Looks like the overwhelming support once touted is slipping as people actually catch on to what it is. http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/243/one-half-of-those-aware-of-it-disapprove-of-bill-c51 Quote
jbg Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Not going to answer any more stupid right wing questions.I am not a right-winger. Is there something liberal about honor killings? I missed what part of them advances the cause.What parts did you write?None. I don't write in the Canadian language. I am not a Canadian. Edited March 22, 2015 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
On Guard for Thee Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 I'm in suspense. What parts? Does freedom of religion for example include the right to conduct honor killings? Are you not aware that murder is against the law in Canada. Quote
jacee Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 I don't write in the Canadian language. I am not a Canadian. And I don't argue Canadian constitutional issues with Americans who come here to propagandize. . Quote
jacee Posted March 24, 2015 Report Posted March 24, 2015 Tory MP, Michael Chong, Puts Himself At Odds With Harper Government Over Bill C-51 OTTAWA - Conservative MP Michael Chong is calling for stronger parliamentary scrutiny of intelligence agencies putting himself squarely at odds with his party and the Harper government. . Quote
Mighty AC Posted March 24, 2015 Report Posted March 24, 2015 Tory MP, Michael Chong, Puts Himself At Odds With Harper Government Over Bill C-51 OTTAWA - Conservative MP Michael Chong is calling for stronger parliamentary scrutiny of intelligence agencies putting himself squarely at odds with his party and the Harper government. . I like Chong. He gave up a cabinet post to oppose Harper's Quebecois Nation BS he was doing to buy a majority back in the day. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Keepitsimple Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Posted March 24, 2015 I'm hopeful that the committee process will end up putting more money into the existing SIRC oversight mechanism - and introduce a 5 year sunset clause. That's what I'd like to see. As for Michael Chong - he's a good guy and his quest is to put more power in the hands of MP's.......but as one can see in the US, congressional oversight results in political antics - because partisanship always raises its head - and if you think Canada would be any different, just look at what's happening with this issue right now. Quote Back to Basics
Big Guy Posted March 24, 2015 Report Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) When a group of elected officials are sworn to secrecy as members of an oversight committee they are saddled with a very large burden. They must make the good of the party subservient to the good of the people. It works in the USA in its oversight of the various intelligence organizations. Where there may be "antics" would be at the interpretation of the guidelines under which these organizations function. I believe that oversight be done by our elected representatives not appointed people. Covert intelligence operations should be responsible to elected representatives who are responsible to the electorate. That is the nature of our democracy - the people are the final judges. It would be a mistake to look at the situation relative to the current Conservative majority. Things will change but the law will not. There will be a time when there is a Liberal majority. Do you want them appointing an oversight committee of party hacks? Edited March 24, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
cybercoma Posted March 24, 2015 Report Posted March 24, 2015 Michael Chong is positioning himself to take over for Harper after he's embarrassed into retirement. Quote
Mighty AC Posted March 24, 2015 Report Posted March 24, 2015 I think this ridiculous bill was also meant to distract the public from the CPC economic record. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.