Bill C-51: Federal Anti-Terror Legislation polling results

On Guard for Thee · March 15, 2015

No, that's not my logic. I was making a point.

The point you made is quite clear. The logic that got you there is a bit scary.

jacee · March 16, 2015

csis-highlights-white-supremacist-threat-ahead-of-radical-islam

Lone wolf attacks more often come from white supremacists and extreme right-wing ideologies than from Islamic radicalism, internal CSIS documents say.

Citing recent academic research, the unclassified documents note extreme right-wing and white supremacist ideology has been the main ideological source for 17 per cent of so-called lone wolf attacks worldwide.

Islamic extremism accounted for 15 per cent of such attacks, the document noted, while left-wing extremism and black power groups followed with 13 per cent. Anti-abortion activism (8 per cent) and nationalism/separatism (7 per cent) rounded out the list, while in 40 per cent of cases there was no clear ideological motivation.

Lone actors tend to create their own ideologies ...

Edited March 16, 2015 by jacee

GostHacked · March 16, 2015

I'm not sure what I have to do with this, since I've never suggested anything of that sort.

Yes, the usual play ignorant ploy. You don't say it, you live it Shady.

LemonPureLeaf · March 16, 2015

Looks like we need c51 more than ever.

In order to stop terror from the largely brown Muslims as well as from the Nazi's who are largely white.

I haven't seen a nazi around but I have seen lots of Muslims.

I wonder why "cybercoma" is so desperate to link white supremecy with right wing politics. They have nothing to do with one another. I am a fiscally responsible, non white person who has a lucrative career. Am I supossed to vote for the Liberal Party or NDP because I'm non white? Is that your message? Or are you trying to say all right wing politicians are white supremists? I don't understand. Please help clarify your reasoning.

eyeball · March 16, 2015

Let me guess, you're mostly pink right with a little brown around the edges? I'm supposedly white too but even albinos aren't white white.

guyser · March 16, 2015

...but I have seen lots of Muslims.

No you havent.

Black Dog · March 17, 2015

Support plummets for anti-terror legislation

Just weeks after one poll showed a convincing majority supported the Canadian government's sweeping new anti-terrorism law, a new survey suggests that support is dropping, and fast.

The Forum Research poll, provided exclusively to VICE, says support for the legislation now stands at 45 percent, with nearly the same amount opposed to the bill.

Keepitsimple · March 17, 2015

Support plummets for anti-terror legislation

Who the heck is "Vice". I read their "About Us" and I still don't know other than it's rinky-dink website. As for the survey, it's hard to tell......the questions are obviously loaded but the article doesn't give the sampling size, the margin of error, the sequence of questions and how they were phrased. It may even be a scam - certainly amateurish and feeding into an obvious agenda. If you can find a bit more detail, maybe it might be interesting.

Black Dog · March 17, 2015

Who the heck is "Vice". I read their "About Us" and I still don't know other than it's rinky-dink website.

It's a magazine. For youngs.

As for the survey, it's hard to tell......the questions are obviously loaded but the article doesn't give the sampling size, the margin of error, the sequence of questions and how they were phrased. It may even be a scam - certainly amateurish and feeding into an obvious agenda. If you can find a bit more detail, maybe it might be interesting.

There's a link to the actual survey in the second paragraph that has all that information. Good lord.

"I didn't read the article or the poll, but I'm just going to assume it's a biased scam." LOL

Edited March 17, 2015 by Black Dog

GostHacked · March 17, 2015

Who the heck is "Vice". I read their "About Us" and I still don't know other than it's rinky-dink website. As for the survey, it's hard to tell......the questions are obviously loaded but the article doesn't give the sampling size, the margin of error, the sequence of questions and how they were phrased. It may even be a scam - certainly amateurish and feeding into an obvious agenda. If you can find a bit more detail, maybe it might be interesting.

I suggest checking VICE out then. They've been around for some years now and go to places that none of us would ever venture in. More investigative journalism with VICE than I see with any alphabet news outlet.

jacee · March 17, 2015

Who the heck is "Vice". I read their "About Us" and I still don't know other than it's rinky-dink website. As for the survey, it's hard to tell......the questions are obviously loaded but the article doesn't give the sampling size, the margin of error, the sequence of questions and how they were phrased. It may even be a scam - certainly amateurish and feeding into an obvious agenda. If you can find a bit more detail, maybe it might be interesting.

Here's the actual Forum Research report.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/243/one-half-of-those-aware-of-it-disapprove-of-bill-c51

82% down to 45% support ... and dropping fast.

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Keepitsimple · March 18, 2015

Here's the actual Forum Research report.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/243/one-half-of-those-aware-of-it-disapprove-of-bill-c51

82% down to 45% support ... and dropping fast.

.

Thanks for that. It's a very disjointed and confusing poll - the numbers are all over the place - as evidenced by the final summary issued by Lorne Bozinoff, the President and Founder of Forum - who says:

"It is clear that, now the immediate rush of anxiety over the October 22 attacks is over, Canadians are slightly less likely to see the need to alter the country’s security protocols."

"Slightly less".......Does that really sound like it's dropped from 82% to 45%?

Edited March 18, 2015 by Keepitsimple

jacee · March 18, 2015

Thanks for that. It's a very disjointed and confusing poll - the numbers are all over the place - as evidenced by the final summary issued by Lorne Bozinoff, the President and Founder of Forum - who says:

"Slightly less".......Does that really sound like it's dropped from 82% to 45%?

It was 82% in a previous poll.

Now ...

(fight the bill unless changed significantly - 38%)

(support the bill but add parliamentary oversight - 34%).

(pass bill as written - 19%).

Not a lot of support for Harper's bullheaded approach.

.

Edited March 18, 2015 by jacee

On Guard for Thee · March 18, 2015

It seems enough time has elapsed so people have actually been able to read this thing and hence the plummeting support. Ramming it through in typical Harper fashion may just backfire this time.

GostHacked · March 18, 2015

It seems enough time has elapsed so people have actually been able to read this thing and hence the plummeting support. Ramming it through in typical Harper fashion may just backfire this time.

That's just it. When people start reading the bill they start to express concerns. But even that can be politicized and manipulated by calling other senators or anyone unpatriotic or terrorist supporters. This brings me to another concern, how many in government are reading the bills that are passed? And is this why things end up at the SCC? Someone is not doing their job.

Keepitsimple · March 18, 2015

It was 82% in a previous poll.

Now ...

(fight the bill unless changed significantly - 38%)

(support the bill but add parliamentary oversight - 34%).

(pass bill as written - 19%).

Not a lot of support for Harper's bullheaded approach.

.

Thanks for that. It's a very disjointed and confusing poll - the numbers are all over the place - as evidenced by the final summary issued by Lorne Bozinoff, the President and Founder of Forum - who says:

"It is clear that, now the immediate rush of anxiety over the October 22 attacks is over, Canadians are slightly less likely to see the need to alter the country’s security protocols."

So I'll ask again....."Slightly less".......Does that really sound like it's dropped from 82% to what you are outlandishly claiming. I mean really - who would you believe - cherry-picked subset numbers - or the President of the polling company?

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

Thanks for that. It's a very disjointed and confusing poll - the numbers are all over the place - as evidenced by the final summary issued by Lorne Bozinoff, the President and Founder of Forum - who says:

I don't think it's the poll's fault you're confused.

So I'll ask again....."Slightly less".......Does that really sound like it's dropped from 82% to what you are outlandishly claiming.

The poll never used 82% as a benchmark.that would be dumb because that was the result of a different poll by a different polling firm with a different sample, different methodology and different questions.

Here's what the poll said:

In a random sampling of public opinion taken by the Forum Poll™ among 1370 Canadian voters, just more than half now agree Canada needs stiffer anti-terrorism legislation (56%) compared to 7-in-10 who took this position in November, when the Iraqi mission was in its infancy (70%).

This is a general question dealing with anti-terrorism legislation. This appears to be the first time they've asked people specifically about C-51.

When asked specifically about the legislation, 50% disapprove and 38% approve. Further questions show that a majority want the bill changed or rejected entirely (72%) compared to 19% who want it passed as-is. Clear?

I mean really - who would you believe - cherry-picked subset numbers - or the President of the polling company?

Numbers don't lie or get hung up on semantics so I'll pick the numbers.

Smallc · March 18, 2015

Poll numbers are influenced by the questions asked. They can in fact lie and get hung up on semantics (I have no opinion about the poll or the bill really, that's not my point).

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

Poll numbers are influenced by the questions asked. They can in fact lie and get hung up on semantics (I have no opinion about the poll or the bill really, that's not my point).

If the numbers reflect the question asked, then they aren't lying, are they?

cybercoma · March 18, 2015

Like I said before, it would be very interesting to see the numbers broken down between those who've read and are familiar with the bill against those who haven't. Just as I thought, the biggest supporters are the most ignorant about what's actually contained in the legislation. That shouldn't really be surprising, since nearly everything Harper does is predicated on ignorance and fear.

Smallc · March 18, 2015

If the numbers reflect the question asked, then they aren't lying, are they?

They don't necessarily reflect the true numbers. That's the case with any poll.

cybercoma · March 18, 2015

They don't necessarily reflect the true numbers. That's the case with any poll.

What are the "true" numbers? How do you get a poll with "true" numbers?

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

They don't necessarily reflect the true numbers. That's the case with any poll.

There's no such thing.

jacee · March 18, 2015

Thanks for that. It's a very disjointed and confusing poll - the numbers are all over the place - as evidenced by the final summary issued by Lorne Bozinoff, the President and Founder of Forum - who says:

So I'll ask again....."Slightly less".......Does that really sound like it's dropped from 82% to what you are outlandishly claiming. I mean really - who would you believe - cherry-picked subset numbers - or the President of the polling company?

There are differences in methods and contexts, but that seems an odd statement of opinion, when their own data shows this

TORONTO March 14th, 2015 - In a random sampling of public opinion taken by the Forum Poll among 1370 Canadian voters, just more than half now agree Canada needs stiffer anti-terrorism legislation (56%) compared to 7-in-10 who took this position in November,

Read more at: http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/243/one-half-of-those-aware-of-it-disapprove-of-bill-c51/

RE anti-terrorism legislation in general.

That's a 14% drop on the same question of a random sample of people by the same company.

RE Bill C51 specifically,

in Feb when the Bill was being discussed in the House the Angus Reid poll showed 82% support

now in March, after those discussions and the reactions, support is at 45%-50%

Not "overwhelming" support anymore, and

only 19% now support passing the bill as is .

That's only the hard right wing, Harper's base, not enough to get him reelected.

.

Edited March 18, 2015 by jacee

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

RE Bill C51 specifically,

in Feb when the Bill was being discussed in the House the Angus Reid poll showed 82% support

now in March, after those discussions and the reactions, support is at 45%-50%

Not "overwhelming" support anymore, and

only 19% now support passing the bill as is .

That's only the hard right wing, Harper's base, not enough to get him reelected.

.

You can't make that comparison with this poll's results.