Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Are you frightened your democracy is about to disappear. Frightened is an overstatement. However, when you bring socially regressive people into the country who have a fundamentally different understanding of how society should operate, who are committed to a religious belief which accepts no separation between 'church and state' then clearly the more who arrive, the less support there is for real democracy. With Muslim numbers doubling every ten years that certainly presents a case where within the next twenty years or so they will be able to at least influence public policy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
overthere Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Yes, I know. All the lefties swoon with delight over more and more radically conservative immigrants who hate women and Jews and homosexuals coming here. Why, hopefully we'll have millions and millions of them some day! Then you can be delighted as we start rolling back all the liberal social rules and laws and start putting gays in prison, right? You are not paying attention at all if you think I'm a lefty. Your hyperbole does not make your point, it just causes further personal embarassment on this topic. Since you've lost perspective, perhaps take a few minutes and consider why the niqab is or should not be an issue to you? Her wearing or not wearing it does not mean the Jihadist, homosexuals or other people you regard as deviants have won or will win. In fact, those stout Canadians like you who rally behind the cause of personal freedom are the ones who have won. Congratulations. I admire what this lady is doing, her courage in the face of all this bigotry. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 I admire what this lady is doing, her courage in the face of all this bigotry. Her courage to continue to cling to her extremist religion which hates all non-believers, you mean? Oh yes, we definitely want more of that in Canada. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
PIK Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Argus some people just don't get it. What is next after this. And if she had courage she would throw it away and be free. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Michael Hardner Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Some undoubtedly are. Those who come here demanding their women remain subservient bags of cloth are not. That's not a decider as to whether or not somebody is Canadian or not. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 I have no idea what you're talking about at this point. Do you? Yes, this: "You haven't found any evidence the social and cultural beliefs of Canadian Muslims are significantly different than those of world Muslims." I found something, and you decided that the goalpost should slide around a bit. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
On Guard for Thee Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Argus some people just don't get it. What is next after this. And if she had courage she would throw it away and be free. Yep, some people really dont get it. If she chose to throw it away, Canadian law would protect that right as well. Quote
overthere Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Yep, some people really dont get it. If she chose to throw it away, Canadian law would protect that right as well. Yep. I can see Argus believes in different rights for people based on their culture. Her courage to continue to cling to her extremist religion which hates all non-believers, you mean? Now you are transferring your hatred to an individual, somebody who has not expressed any extremist views. Oh sorry, you consider wearing a head covering as indicative of extremism. I would not want to see how you'd feel about a bunch of kids wearing face shields or a baseball team. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 Yep. She absolutely must be required to identify herself to the satisfaction of authorities as part of the process of gaining citizenship. And she has, until the actual cermeony which is the last and least important step. I believe niqabs must be taken off in cirmcumstances including: airport security, border crossings, under oath in court, at traffic stops when required by a peace officer and others. After the identity is established, the veil can be worn. I agree with all of the above. Certainly not in a public ceremonies rife with photographers that has no purpose other than to symbolically show what was signed and confirmed in private. Quote
Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 That's not a decider as to whether or not somebody is Canadian or not. It damn well should be when it comes to applicants. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 When I post on immigration I post logical opinions and statements with numerous citations. When you post you snivel and whine and make emotional accusations about other posters immorality. You have nothing intelligent to say, just bitter vituperation that not everyone agrees with your politically correct stupidity.This is all very logical and not at all emotional. Thanks for demonstrating your utter lack of reflexivity. Quote
Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Yes, this: "You haven't found any evidence the social and cultural beliefs of Canadian Muslims are significantly different than those of world Muslims." I found something, and you decided that the goalpost should slide around a bit. You found something which is not entirely irrelevant, but which doesn't seem to affect my main objections. It might affect the amount of potential violence coming from this group, but then neither I nor anyone else has ever suggested that a majority of Muslims coming to Canada are likely to commit violence. My only point in regard to that is a small percentage of a number grows larger in the absolute as the population grows. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 This is all very logical and not at all emotional. Thanks for demonstrating your utter lack of reflexivity. No, it's exactly what you should expect when you call people names. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 Nonsense. A government which wanted such things would simply appoint islamists to the court until it got the ruling it desired. A constitution is a piece of paper and it's good for toilet paper and not much else. The Soviet Union had a constitution which had all the usual guarantees, so does China. They're worthless. The only guarantee of rights is in the minds of the citizenry. If you rely on lawyers to save you from an autocratic government you might as well pray to the great pumpkin. Then you would be whining about the radicals in the streets who were marching on Ottawa to protect their rights. Or would you rather an all out civil war with the tyranny of the majority slaughtering minorities who stand up for themselves? I think most intelligent and rational adults in Canada would prefer the bureaucracy to the barbarism that is implied in your asinine whining about the SCC and activist judges. Quote
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 Frightened is an overstatement. However, when you bring socially regressive people into the country...You mean like YOU? Quote
Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Now you are transferring your hatred to an individual, somebody who has not expressed any extremist views. Oh sorry, you consider wearing a head covering as indicative of extremism. I would not want to see how you'd feel about a bunch of kids wearing face shields or a baseball team. Congratulations on as dumb a statement as anyone has posted on this subject so far, and given the competition you really do deserve some kind of award. Perhaps a dunce cap. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) It damn well should be when it comes to applicants. And if someone came here from Scotland, such as my grandfather did, and he chose to continue to wear his kilt, I guess you would kick him out also. Edited February 17, 2015 by On Guard for Thee Quote
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 Her courage to continue to cling to her extremist religion which hates all non-believers, you mean? Oh yes, we definitely want more of that in Canada. Your mouth-frothing hatred for Muslims is so painfully stupid it's beyond belief. You can't even distinguish between the violent extremists and the rest. I guess that puts a good Christian guy like you in good company with the Christians in Rwanda who are beheading Muslims, the Anders Breiviks who slaughter children, and the Orthodox Christians who slaughtered Serbian Muslims. You don't get it and you'll never get it. For someone who claims he's soooo god damned rational, you can't at all understand the idiotic fallacies you continue to crap all over this forum despite them being pointed out to you time and time again. Quote
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 That's not a decider as to whether or not somebody is Canadian or not.It's not even relevant to this case, considering this woman chooses freely to wear the Niqab. More importantly, the study that I posted earlier in response to you shows that many Muslim women wear them against their families' wishes as well. Argus doesn't see that and doesn't care. All he cares is that Muslims are a mongrel race of people that are polluting his pure white christian nation. Quote
Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Then you would be whining about the radicals in the streets who were marching on Ottawa to protect their rights. Or would you rather an all out civil war with the tyranny of the majority slaughtering minorities who stand up for themselves? What in hell are you talking about? Who is slaughtering minorities and where is this tyranny? You've slipped way off the deep end. I think most intelligent and rational adults in Canada would prefer the bureaucracy to the barbarism that is implied in your asinine whining about the SCC and activist judges. It's interesting that on the one hand you go berserk over the thought the government might authorize some minor increase in power to CSIS while at the other end of the spectrum see my daring to question supreme court rulings as trying to bring about 'bararism'. It seems you really don't have a problem with undemocratic actions as long as you agree with the goal. The ends justify whatever means, it seems, as far as you're concerned. Edited February 17, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 No, it's exactly what you should expect when you call people names.I'm not calling anyone names. I'm pointing out the exact crux of all of your immigration arguments. You are an avowed bigot who unabashedly claims his superiority over ALL Muslims because even the moderates follow a religion that you interpret to be barbaric and inferior to your own. I'm not calling you names. I'm describing exactly what you are. Quote
cybercoma Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Posted February 17, 2015 What in hell are you talking about? Who is slaughtering minorities and where is this tyranny? You've slipped way off the deep end. It's interesting that on the one hand you go berserk over the thought the government might authorize some minor increase in power to CSIS while at the other end of the spectrum see my daring to question supreme court rulings as trying to bring about 'bararism'. It seems you really don't have a problem with undemocratic actions as long as you agree with the goal. The ends justify whatever means, it seems, as far as you're concerned. You don't question "Supreme Court Rulings" you only question when the Supreme Court upholds the rights and freedoms that you enjoy for minorities as well. You're completely hypocritical in your questioning. That's the problem. Quote
GostHacked Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Nonsense. A government which wanted such things would simply appoint islamists to the court until it got the ruling it desired. Or to get a certain law passed that violates rights of Canadians. Harper appointed people to the bench, did not quite work out well for him. But try and try again he will. A constitution is a piece of paper and it's good for toilet paper and not much else. The Soviet Union had a constitution which had all the usual guarantees, so does China. They're worthless. The only guarantee of rights is in the minds of the citizenry. If you rely on lawyers to save you from an autocratic government you might as well pray to the great pumpkin. And when people stand up for those rights you call them crazy! Trying to convince us that the government is doing no wrong. Quote
Big Guy Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 I believe that the best way to deal with bigots and racists is not to condemn them, it is to provide a stage, a spotlight and an opportunity for them to express their views - and allow them to condemn themselves. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Argus doesn't see that and doesn't care. All he cares is that Muslims are a mongrel race of people that are polluting his pure white christian nation. Oh please, given the bitterness and rage filling you anyone who dares to disagree with you must inevitably come from some dark and awful place, right? I imagine you literally froth at the mouth every time you see some posting about Muslims... Muslims aren't a race, by the way, so as much as you desperately need to make this about skin colour, that really has nothing to do with anything. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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