.

[angrypenguin]

So, the Conservatives hire a guy from Australia who has a reputation for wedge politics, particularly in the area of race baiting. The next thing you know, they're making an issue of the niqab. And then they announce they're stripping the citizenship of some of the Toronto 18. Finally, the "barbaric cultural rituals" hotline.

Even by Conservative standards, this is truly disgusting. Harper is pandering to his intolerant, xenophobic base and appealing to the worst in Canadians.

The Niqab discussion and the removing of citizenship have been MONTHS in the making, well before they hired that strategy guy and well before the election.

Edited October 3, 2015 by angrypenguin

[ReeferMadness]

Maybe but they're being played up right now. It distracts people from Conservative scandals and the weak economy.

It's disgusting, revolting politics and you know it.

[angrypenguin]

Maybe but they're being played up right now. It distracts people from Conservative scandals and the weak economy.

It's disgusting, revolting politics and you know it.

No, I disagree. The Conservative scandal? Really? $90k - and that wasn't taxpayer money. Sponsorship scandal - now that's a scandal. The NDP's taking money out of the house to upgrade their offices? Now that's a scandal where 46 NDPers are now up [expletive] creek. Pick the turd that smells the least. You may not like Harper, but you know what you're getting, and after 10 years of office, they may not be squeaky clean, but they are at least cleaner than the Liberals.

Edited October 3, 2015 by angrypenguin

[ReeferMadness]

No, I disagree. The Conservative scandal? Really? $90k - and that wasn't taxpayer money. Sponsorship scandal - now that's a scandal. The NDP's taking money out of the house to upgrade their offices? Now that's a scandal where 46 NDPers are now up [expletive] creek. Pick the turd that smells the least. You may not like Harper, but you know what you're getting, and after 10 years of office, they may not be squeaky clean, but they are at least cleaner than the Liberals.

It doesn't matter if you agree - the scandals were hurting the Cons. And this helps to erase the stench.

The turd that smells the least? This type of politics is way beneath anything that Chretien even dreamed. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for defending a party that would stoop to race baiting to win an election. It's way beyond the pale. And it's working. Feel good about it.

[angrypenguin]

It doesn't matter if you agree - the scandals were hurting the Cons. And this helps to erase the stench.

The turd that smells the least? This type of politics is way beneath anything that Chretien even dreamed. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for defending a party that would stoop to race baiting to win an election. It's way beyond the pale. And it's working. Feel good about it.

Worse than Chretian?? Worse than the guy who promised to abolish the GST, banked on that, and then reneged. I give you that Chretien was a good politician, but he was a CRONY.

You have got to be kidding me.

[cybercoma]

No, I disagree. The Conservative scandal? Really? $90k - and that wasn't taxpayer money.

The senate scandal is not so much about money as it is about the PMO interfering with the senate's independence, interfering with a third-party audit, and trying to manipulate reports. Duffy's up on bribery charges, so it's about this kind of unethical and illegal behaviour that's evidently rampant in the CPC (considering for the first time in half a century a sitting MP was taken to prison in handcuffs). The Senate scandal is just another symptom of a governing party that has lost any sense of accountability and ethics.

[angrypenguin]

The senate scandal is not so much about money as it is about the PMO interfering with the senate's independence, interfering with a third-party audit, and trying to manipulate reports. Duffy's up on bribery charges, so it's about this kind of unethical and illegal behaviour that's evidently rampant in the CPC (considering for the first time in half a century a sitting MP was taken to prison in handcuffs). The Senate scandal is just another symptom of a governing party that has lost any sense of accountability and ethics.

I don't disagree with you at all that it's a scandal and that there were some serious accountability issues there. But to me, I look at it this way. "How much money did this cost the taxpayer"? Ultimately that's all I care about, that my tax dollars are being spent most efficiently. Every government has its scandals. Tonight's mudslinging between Mulcair, Trudeau and Harper was an example of that. But hey, out of three smelly turds, Harper wasted the least of taxpayer's money, so he wins in the "which turd smells the least" contest

[dialamah]

Also, we don't know if that's her choice privately as well. If anything, she could have been told by her husband how to act.

As far as her family is concerned, she is free to remove the niqab.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/niqab-row-canadas-government-challenges-ruling-zunera-ishaq-can-wear-veil-while-taking-oath-of-a6674151.html

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/03/16/why-i-intend-to-wear-a-niqab-at-my-citizenship-ceremony.html

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/zunera-ishaq-the-woman-who-fought-to-wear-a-niqab-during-her-citizenship-ceremony

[angrypenguin]

As far as her family is concerned, she is free to remove the niqab.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/niqab-row-canadas-government-challenges-ruling-zunera-ishaq-can-wear-veil-while-taking-oath-of-a6674151.html

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/03/16/why-i-intend-to-wear-a-niqab-at-my-citizenship-ceremony.html

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/zunera-ishaq-the-woman-who-fought-to-wear-a-niqab-during-her-citizenship-ceremony

As I have mentioned, the position she takes on publicly may not be how she takes it up privately. The point is, when you come to Canada, you show your face. If she is free to remove it, then do it!

[Smallc]

A thinking person judges everything around them. And when he sees behaviour which is clearly backward, barbaric, and dumb, he doesn't pretend otherwise.

If someone truly wants to wear the niqab (they aren't being forced) then I have no problem...then again they shouldn't much care about taking it off. I don't think that most people are in a position to make the choice.

That said, this issue is bottom of the list for me.

[eyeball]

If anything, she could have been told by her husband how to act.

If so, are we punishing him by forcing her to defy his orders? Why don't we go directly after him instead?

[angrypenguin]

If so, are we punishing him by forcing her to defy his orders? Why don't we go directly after him instead?

Because we cannot. He has been raised to oppress women.

[eyeball]

So, the Conservatives hire a guy from Australia who has a reputation for wedge politics, particularly in the area of race baiting. The next thing you know, they're making an issue of the niqab. And then they announce they're stripping the citizenship of some of the Toronto 18. Finally, the "barbaric cultural rituals" hotline.

Even by Conservative standards, this is truly disgusting. Harper is pandering to his intolerant, xenophobic base and appealing to the worst in Canadians.

It's kind of like being an adult on South Park meeting Mr Hankey for the first time isn't it?

[dialamah]

Absolutely agreed. Women are EQUAL, and when these women come from backgrounds which oppress women, they need to know their government stands behind them for them to at least briefly experience true equality. Their husbands can't say jack because the government has mandated it, as it should be.

Fifteen minutes without a niqab isn't going to allow these women to experience "true equality". On the contrary, they are much more likely to be extremely uncomfortable, and wonder why their new country would put them through this ordeal. If you think they're going to suddenly belt out Helen Reddy's "I Am Woman" and go forth in feminism, you will be sadly disappointed.

The husband can be pissed all he wants, but if Canadian legislation is allowing the female to experience Canada in "all its glory", there's nothing the husband or whatever can say about it. That's why I'm FOR the PM's stance on this.

If a woman's husband/family are the ones insisting she wear the niqab, and the citizenship ceremony requires removal, you can pretty much bet that woman will remain a permanent resident, permanently. Or maybe she'll be married off to some deserving Muslim back in the mother country ... so yeah, niqab ban helps her a whole lot.

If there was a compelling reason why she needed citizenship, you can bet the family would be there in the audience, watching her every move, every expression. A family truly invested in the niqab and what it means in terms of family honor and female modesty would feel dishonored, even if they were forced into it by the government requirement. The woman would feel both the family's anger, and her own humiliation. She may have to face some kind of penance for that fifteen minutes of "equality" forced upon her by the government. This isn't freedom, this is being the pawn between two oppressors.

As for the woman who chooses the niqab, and is under no pressure from family to wear it, or even wears it against their wishes - who is the government to inform her it's an oppressive symbol, therefore she's being oppressed and for her own good, she will have to remove it during the ceremony - for a 'taste of equality'. Nobody feels 'equal' with jackboots on their neck.

You and Kenney and the Conservative government can stop pretending this is about 'saving the woman from oppression'. For them, it's purely a political ploy, to play to their "old stock" base. Framing it as saving the woman just makes people such as yourself feel good about their bigotry.

Now, if someone in the Harper government really gave a shit about ensuring women aren't oppressed by men, they'd refund the women's centers that were closed, and ensure that women had advocacy and support when they wanted to leave their oppressive husbands, whether Caucasion, Middle Eastern, South Asian, Chinese, Korean, Christian, Muslim, Baptist or atheist. They'd make laws that put men in jails for ignoring no-contact orders; they'd have some substantive response to the missing aboriginal women.

[eyeball]

Because we cannot. He has been raised to oppress women.

And how does reinforcing his belief by forcing the women in his life to obey help?

[angrypenguin]

Now, if someone in the Harper government really gave a shit about ensuring women aren't oppressed by men, they'd refund the women's centers that were closed, and ensure that women had advocacy and support when they wanted to leave their oppressive husbands, whether Caucasion, Middle Eastern, South Asian, Chinese, Korean, Christian, Muslim, Baptist or atheist. They'd make laws that put men in jails for ignoring no-contact orders; they'd have some substantive response to the missing aboriginal women.

Did you follow the announcements today?

[cybercoma]

Every government has its scandals.

And that's why we should shake things up on a regular basis to let them know that they're one election away from being out on their asses.

[Peter F]

Because we cannot. He has been raised to oppress women.

Then the policy is crap. We fully support women rights and completely condemn making women wear these things. Therefor we shall deny the oppressed woman citizenship and eventually ship her off to the land of oppression.

We really really care very much about females being oppressed.

[Peter F]

June 18, 2015 — Ottawa — Legislation strengthening laws to prevent barbaric cultural practices from occurring on Canadian soil received Royal Assent today.

Tabled in the Senate on November 5, 2014 as Bill S-7, the Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices Act (the Act) provides improved protection and support for vulnerable individuals—primarily immigrant women and girls—

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=989099

The argument for the removal of face coverings is what? Its a barbaric practice oppressive to women.

So lets make sure they cannot be citizens of this country.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Peter F

[cybercoma]

Spot on. Anyone who thinks denying them citizenship and deporting them back to oppressive countries is going to help them is deluding themselves. But the thing is this, many people who support this don't think about it. They don't care that it puts the women in more danger. They simply hate Muslims and are happy that they're being given a hard time or being kept out of the country. Never mind the fact that the vast majority of Muslims who come here do so to escape the oppressive societies where they're persecuted. Forget that we're fighting wars in the Middle East to stop Muslims from killing other Muslims. The people who rally behind this garbage don't think. And when the Tories have the most support from people with only a high school education, they like that just fine. The less trained in critical thought, the better.

[eyeball]

The argument for the removal of face coverings is what? Its a barbaric practice oppressive to women.

So lets make sure they cannot be citizens of this country.

And lets completely ignore the barbaric men who are oppressing these women altogether.

People would either have to be complete morons or a complete sphincters to overlook this disconnect.

[cybercoma]

And lets completely ignore the barbaric men who are oppressing these women altogether.

They can become citizens just fine. It's their wives who can f*** right off. /s

Edited October 3, 2015 by cybercoma

[Argus]

So, the Conservatives hire a guy from Australia who has a reputation for wedge politics, particularly in the area of race baiting. The next thing you know, they're making an issue of the niqab.

You think this started with an Aussie? Is he the guy who convinced the PQ, then the Quebec Liberals to ban the niquab in all government buildings?

You 'progressives' certainly do seem to have poor memories, though, in how shocked and appalled you are at this. It was only five years ago the Ontario Liberals did exactly the same thing. The Conservatives had suggested funding schools of other religions to equalize the fact the province funds Catholic schools.

You know what the Liberal Party did? They ran a huge scare campaign which suggested the government would be funding Muslim madrasas that teach children extremism and hatred. They were completely unrepentant about it, too, and it was a huge help in winning them the election.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

And lets completely ignore the barbaric men who are oppressing these women altogether.

People would either have to be complete morons or a complete sphincters to overlook this disconnect.

Hey, my position from the start has been that neither men nor women who believe in this should be allowed into Canada.

[Topaz]

Canada does have religion freedoms and if these women who wear niqab want to wear them then what's the problem? They only have to go into a back room let another female official ID her and then she can become a citizen out front. The point to the swearing in is that she is really "X" that was seen in the back room. There more serious problems within Canada and this isn't one of them.