.

[Argus]

Define repugnant?

I think we're all pretty well-aware of what sorts of views are generic with orthodox Muslims.

I find the Burqa but not the Niqab repugnant.

Because their eyes are naked? You think that makes that much difference?

Yet, in all of them, I am non-plussed . Not one of them affects me in any way,

A person holding Nazi views wouldn't affect you in any way either. Bringing in thousands and tens of thousands of them every year, however, would eventually lead to situations where you were affected. These people's views, after all, are inimical to your own, and they will have an ever increasing impact on society, not to mention political clout.

So I ask, why should we deliberately bring people into Canada with such views? Would you deliberately seek to ring KKK members into Canada?

Edited March 14, 2015 by Argus

[Bob Macadoo]

Except almost no one in Canada even knows much about India's caste system, and this isn't about what 'you' believe or 'I' believe but what a reasonable person would come to associate with this attire. Your statement that 'a percentage' of niqab wearers represent female oppression is also disingenuous since the percentage is 100.

Oh so the litmus test is I should become PM so I have a platform to tell everyone to think turbans represent oppression......then it's OK? A reasonable person believes vaccines cause autism too.....I'm supposed to be subject to the mob's ignorance?

[guyser]

Reality?

Insofar as they exist, ok.

But thats not what tim was talking about I think and would like to hear what he meant by that.

[guyser]

I think we're all pretty well-aware of what sorts of views are generic with orthodox Muslims.

Scratch out Muslims from that article and we would almost agree.

However, that said, repugnant may well be too harsh a word for some of the orthodox ideas and ways.

Because their eyes are naked? You think that makes that much difference?

You dont...ok.

It makes some diff to me .

A person holding Nazi views wouldn't affect you in any way either. Bringing in thousands and tens of thousands of them every year, however, would eventually lead to situations where you were affected. These people's views, after all, are inimical to your own, and they will have an ever increasing impact on society, not to mention political clout.

The existence of the KKK is to hate blacks, jews and RC's . Do they serve any other purpose?

Is a muslim existence only to hate groups not their own?

So I ask, why should we deliberately bring people into Canada with such views? Would you deliberately seek to ring KKK members into Canada?

One has only a duty to hate.

The other has some followers who have conscripted their religion to hate.

[guyser]

Your statement that 'a percentage' of niqab wearers represent female oppression is also disingenuous since the percentage is 100.

Im sorry argus but the reams and reams of Muslims telling us for years that it is NOT the case is far too overwhleming to dismiss.

How can we NOT believe women having to enshroud themselves are being oppressed by this religion?

We could ask them?

Muslim women in Canada explain why they wear a niqab.

Muslim women in Canada say they choose to wear the niqab out of religious obligation and as an expression of their identity, but are flexible about uncovering their faces in specific circumstances, a recent survey found.

A majority of the women included in a Canadian Council of Muslim Women (CCMW) report agreed that in certain instances it would be necessary to lift their face coverings, including when going through airport security, accessing health services, or driving

(MORE AT LINK INCLUDING A A POLL)

)AND FOR SULL DISCLOSURE IT ENDS WITH "But since the sample size was small, and no firm numbers exist on the total number of women who wear a niqab in Canada, the results “should be understood to be tentative indications only,” the report said."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/03/13/muslim-women-in-canada-explain-why-they-wear-a-niqab.html

[Bob Macadoo]

Im sorry argus but the reams and reams of Muslims telling us for years that it is NOT the case is far too overwhleming to dismiss. We could ask them?

Nope Argus is telling us their view.....no need for your distraction.

"The word means 'oppressed' and 'niq...ab' is it's name."......I think I learned that in a Heritage Canada vignette.

[Argus]

Oh so the litmus test is I should become PM so I have a platform to tell everyone to think turbans represent oppression......then it's OK? A reasonable person believes vaccines cause autism too.....I'm supposed to be subject to the mob's ignorance?

Except a reasonable person does NOT believe vaccines cause autism. And no one has suggested the PM is the litmus test.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Scratch out Muslims from that article and we would almost agree.

I grant you the point, but would only like to add that it seems mostly orthodox Muslims who are willing to kill because of their repugnant views.

However, that said, repugnant may well be too harsh a word for some of the orthodox ideas and ways.

Do you think believing gays should be executed is repugnant? What about that a woman can be beaten if she disobeys her husband?

The existence of the KKK is to hate blacks, jews and RC's . Do they serve any other purpose?

Is a muslim existence only to hate groups not their own?

You tell me. What purpose does Islam serve in this world?

One has only a duty to hate.

The other has some followers who have conscripted their religion to hate.

The problem I have is with that term 'some'. I'll accept the majority are not ready to kill for their religious beliefs, but I've seen nothing to indicate that the great majority of orthodox Muslims don't hold those repugnant beliefs with regard to Sharia law. I mean, how dedicated to this stuff do you have to be to cover yourself in a black shroud wherever you go for your entire life? Why would you get the idea people willing to do that would be lax in their belief in other aspects of orthodox Islam?

[Argus]

Im sorry argus but the reams and reams of Muslims telling us for years that it is NOT the case is far too overwhleming to dismiss.

We could ask them?

Want to ask Russians about what's going on in Ukraine? If I produce a hundred million Russians loudly and indignantly telling you that Russia is only helping the freedom loving people of eastern Ukraine to defend themselves against an evil Nazi regime, and that no Russian soldiers are involved, will you accept that as fact?

Muslim women in Canada say they choose to wear the niqab out of religious obligation and as an expression of their identity,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 'obligation' imply they have no choice? It's an obligation, required by their religion. So is obeying their husbands, so is accepting their husbands can beat them if they choose. An expression of their identity? What identity would that be? Not one of an ordinary member of the community in which they reside, that's for sure.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Nope Argus is telling us their view.....no need for your distraction.

"The word means 'oppressed' and 'niq...ab' is it's name."......I think I learned that in a Heritage Canada vignette.

Thank you for contributing nothing of substance to the discussion. Again.

[WestCoastRunner]

I grant you the point, but would only like to add that it seems mostly orthodox Muslims who are willing to kill because of their repugnant views.

Do you think believing gays should be executed is repugnant? What about that a woman can be beaten if she disobeys her husband?

You tell me. What purpose does Islam serve in this world?

The problem I have is with that term 'some'. I'll accept the majority are not ready to kill for their religious beliefs, but I've seen nothing to indicate that the great majority of orthodox Muslims don't hold those repugnant beliefs with regard to Sharia law. I mean, how dedicated to this stuff do you have to be to cover yourself in a black shroud wherever you go for your entire life? Why would you get the idea people willing to do that would be lax in their belief in other aspects of orthodox Islam?

I get extremely perturbed by your rants against Muslims which you tend to generalize against all Muslims. Living on the west coast I interact through work and on a personal with many Muslims. I seriously think I should be hiding under my bed and doing everything I can to avoid these people even the ones that I do manage on a professional level. Do you even interact with Muslims or even gays on a daily basis? What is your experience on a personal level with these people you so frequently judge (according to what you read on the Internet).

[Argus]

I get extremely perturbed by your rants against Muslims which you tend to generalize against all Muslims. Living on the west coast I interact through work and on a personal with many Muslims. I seriously think I should be hiding under my bed and doing everything I can to avoid these people even the ones that I do manage on a professional level. Do you even interact with Muslims or even gays on a daily basis? What is your experience on a personal level with these people you so frequently judge (according to what you read on the Internet).

I imagine you get indignant and perturbed an awful lot.

But we are not speaking of ALL Muslims here. We are specifically speaking about orthodox Muslims who enshroud their women. There is a common set of religious beliefs amongst orthodox Muslims which is extremely well-known. Why people like you insist that these people would not care about their own beliefs just because you find them stupid is beyond my understanding. Or do you imagine they would speak openly about them to a kafir even though they must know very well what our society thinks of these beliefs?

[Shady]

Isn't the head covering cultural and not religous?

[WestCoastRunner]

I imagine you get indignant and perturbed an awful lot.

But we are not speaking of ALL Muslims here. We are specifically speaking about orthodox Muslims who enshroud their women. There is a common set of religious beliefs amongst orthodox Muslims which is extremely well-known. Why people like you insist that these people would not care about their own beliefs just because you find them stupid is beyond my understanding. Or do you imagine they would speak openly about them to a kafir even though they must know very well what our society thinks of these beliefs?

And lucky for us some of us get perturbed by the likes of your comments.

And yet you seem to speak for hatred of all Muslims.

[WestCoastRunner]

I imagine you get indignant and perturbed an awful lot.

But we are not speaking of ALL Muslims here. We are specifically speaking about orthodox Muslims who enshroud their women. There is a common set of religious beliefs amongst orthodox Muslims which is extremely well-known. Why people like you insist that these people would not care about their own beliefs just because you find them stupid is beyond my understanding. Or do you imagine they would speak openly about them to a kafir even though they must know very well what our society thinks of these beliefs?

You didn't answer my question. Do you interact with Muslims or gays on a daily basis?

[Bob Macadoo]

Thank you for contributing nothing of substance to the discussion. Again.

You say to-ma-to.....I say xenophobe.....let's call the whole thing off.

[On Guard for Thee]

I get extremely perturbed by your rants against Muslims which you tend to generalize against all Muslims. Living on the west coast I interact through work and on a personal with many Muslims. I seriously think I should be hiding under my bed and doing everything I can to avoid these people even the ones that I do manage on a professional level. Do you even interact with Muslims or even gays on a daily basis? What is your experience on a personal level with these people you so frequently judge (according to what you read on the Internet).

I would imagine the narrow mindedness of the posts is a good clue as to an answer to that question .

[eyeball]

No - its not. IN the case of swastikas and KKK hoods we have simple pieces of a clothing which are symbols of ideas which are repugnant to Canadians values. The niqab is another on of those symbols and women who insist on wearing one at a citizenship ceremony don't have any business becoming Canadian.

I realize that you will argue that you don't agree with my assessment of the niqab but since you have already expressed the opinion that some pieces of clothing are unacceptable you now no longer can argue a libertarian moral high ground. You are simply arguing that your opinion on what is offensive should determine rule.

If the price right wingers insist on being paid to allow the niqab is swastikas and KKK symbols then so be it.

I look forward to the day someone shows up wearing them and Conservatives stand to defend them.

[On Guard for Thee]

At the end of the day I think we are better off being open minded than to be bowing down to preconceived notions.

[LemonPureLeaf]

At the end of the day I think we are better off being open minded than to be bowing down to preconceived notions.

. If Orthodox Muslims commit acts that are abhorent to everyday Canadians is it still a baseless preconcieved notion?

[On Guard for Thee]

. If Orthodox Muslims commit acts that are abhorent to everyday Canadians is it still a baseless preconcieved notion?

Your question makes o sense. Try again maybe.

[LemonPureLeaf]

Your question makes o sense. Try again maybe.

Makes perfect sense. Read it again and answer. Thank you.

You are claiming that Canadians have baseless preconceived notions about orthodox Muslims as the reason some want the niqab banned.

So I asked if the same orthodox Muslims commit acts which are abhorrent to everyday Canadians are they still baseless preconceived notions?

[Michael Hardner]

So I asked if the same orthodox Muslims commit acts which are abhorrent to everyday Canadians are they still baseless preconceived notions?

The term "baseless" is used most often to describe an objective basis that others can relate to. Given the current controversy over blaming groups for extremists, then I think you can reasonably say that they are still baseless to most of us.

[eyeball]

That's the nature of blow-back for you, in the sense that the population suffering it can't put the reason why they've been attacked into any kind of context they can relate to. It's no wonder blame is assigned inappropriately and attributed to baseless root causes.

[Argus]

And lucky for us some of us get perturbed by the likes of your comments.

And yet you seem to speak for hatred of all Muslims.

You didn't deal with the point I made, which is unsurprising since confronting reality seems very difficult for you.

Do you believe orthodox Muslims don't believe in Islamic laws? Is that where you're coming from?