jacee Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) LOL wut. I don't understand the harm in pointing out that, in addition to a lot of significant accomplishments, this guy was also a scumbag That's the issue:http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/story/1.2895872 Sir John A. Macdonald's birthday cause for reflection, not celebration for First Nations For Indigenous Peoples, the first PM's 'policy of starvation and coercion' a harsh legacy Reflecting on the complexities is a good thing. . Edited January 13, 2015 by jacee Quote
Smallc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 And yet he is the person probably most responsible for the creation of this country. I don't really see the point in picking at his flaws when history has already determined how he'll be seen. Quote
jacee Posted January 13, 2015 Report Posted January 13, 2015 And yet he is the person probably most responsible for the creation of this country. I don't really see the point in picking at his flaws when history has already determined how he'll be seen. Excuse me? Somebody's "already determined" what we're allowed to think and say? . Quote
jacee Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/politics/canadians-more-willing-to-display-patriotism-survey-finds-1.1189422 Having a maple leaf on your underwear is a Canadian thing, true, but a long way from adulating Sir John A. . Quote
Smallc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 That's not what you asked for, and it does contradict you. Quote
jacee Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 That's not what you asked for, and it does contradict you. I said I think Canadians are deeply and quietly patriotic. If we weren't, we'd have been US states long ago. But we have never been big on publicly revering our history. We know there are flaws, and it just isn't our nature. It doesn't contradict what I said at all. We are patriotic, but revering our BRITISH history as Harper would like us to do is very divisive and we're not interested. . Quote
Smallc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Harper has also celebrated our francophone history, and included aboriginal ceremonies and traditions. There's no denying though that our history is predominantly British. Quote
jacee Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Harper has also celebrated our francophone history, and included aboriginal ceremonies and traditions. There's no denying though that our history is predominantly British.I guess you've forgotten thisReenactment of the battle-of-the-plains-of-abraham CANCELLED http://m.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/the-battle-of-the-plains-of-abraham-isnt-over-yet/article20441123/?service=mobile When did Harper celebrate Indigenous history? Harper's attitude is divisive. Canadians know that. . Edited January 14, 2015 by jacee Quote
Smallc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I guess you speak for all Canadians. I think you're more interested in division than he is. Quote
Smallc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 And in case you didn't know, that battle is an important part of our history. Quote
jacee Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) And in case you didn't know, that battle is an important part of our history.You do get that trying to celebrate it divides Canadians?Not constructive. . Edited January 14, 2015 by jacee Quote
jbg Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Don't know where he finds the time to create such a well-written piece of history........it's well worth the read - especially for those who might not have had an in-depth exposure to Canadian history. Link: http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/09/stephen-harper-reflects-on-canadas-first-prime-minister-sir-john-a-macdonald/ I personally would have quoted this portion: To suppose Macdonald unwittingly cobbled all this together from temporary conveniences and legislative spare parts is akin to saying that the Wright Brothers might have made the first powered flight, but didn’t understand basic aerodynamics. It is an impossible position to sustain. Canada is the best country in the world. If a pragmatic Sir John A. Macdonald made it possible for it to be so, it is because he was pragmatic enough to use in its construction only principles known to work — then, now and always, the mark of a man of thought and action. That's a quibble. Harper put together an excellent speech. It gave appropriiate deference to Lower Canada's, i.e. Quebec's role. It made appropriate references to the fact that the U.S. would have eventually focused its eyes north. In other words, just enough reference to our status as a gentle, somewhat threatening giant. Stephen Harper continues to impress! I wonder what Justin would write? Justin would write that he was nothing but a bribe taking drunk with no vision for the country. That is what the MSM is doing now, trying to make him look worse then he really was.Justin would have explored the "root causes" of Macdonald's need to drink liquor, with little reference to the good that he's done. Just as he psychobabbled about the Boston Marathon butchers, with little reference to their unmitigated evil.Ever since about 2010, I'd say that your ideas of who we are doesn't March public sentiment. Several polls have shown Canadians moving from quietly patriotic to being loudly so.Hopefully true. I sarted this thread (link) in 2007. It sure wasn't true then. Harper has also celebrated our francophone history, and included aboriginal ceremonies and traditions. There's no denying though that our history is predominantly British. I guess you've forgotten this Reenactment of the battle-of-the-plains-of-abraham CANCELLED http://m.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/the-battle-of-the-plains-of-abraham-isnt-over-yet/article20441123/?service=mobile When did Harper celebrate Indigenous history? Harper's attitude is divisive. Canadians know that. . How is acknowledging that, say, 65% of Canada's history relates to British origins? It is necessary to refer to other contributions but let's not over-make the case. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Smallc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 You do get that trying to celebrate it divides Canadians? Not constructive. . As do treaty rights but you're all for that. In both cases, ignoring reality and the truth is probably a bad idea. Quote
jacee Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 As do treaty rights but you're all for that. In both cases, ignoring reality and the truth is probably a bad idea. Treaty rights are a legal reality. Pompous ceremony to smack Quebec in the face is just nasty. . Quote
Smallc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry if the re-enactment of actual history is seen as a slap in the face to you. The reality is, it's a part of our history that shouldn't be ignored. It was a crossroads, and it shaped this country into what it is today. Putting your fingers in your ears won't change that. Edited for clarity Edited January 14, 2015 by Smallc Quote
jacee Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I'm sorry if the re-enactment of actual history is seen as a slap in the face to you. The reality is, it's a part of our history that shouldn't be ignored. It was a crossroads, and it shaped this country into what it is today. Putting your fingers in your ears won't change that. Edited for clarity It was cancelled. . Quote
Smallc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I realize that, and I inderstand why. At the same time, I don't think ignorance should be a protection. Quote
PIK Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Jacee, you don't see it because you don't want to see. But for most, we do see it and we are embracing it. And harper brought this country together more then anyone else. How is the Quebec separation doing. Edited January 14, 2015 by PIK Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I said I think Canadians are deeply and quietly patriotic. If we weren't, we'd have been US states long ago. But we have never been big on publicly revering our history. We know there are flaws, and it just isn't our nature. It doesn't contradict what I said at all. We are patriotic, but revering our BRITISH history as Harper would like us to do is very divisive and we're not interested. . Macdonald is not a part of our 'British history' but an integral part of how this country came to BE a country. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 You do get that trying to celebrate it divides Canadians? Not constructive. . What I don't get is how we're supposed to celebrate and cherish the cultural traditions and histories of every minority group in the country, however small and recently arrived, but not that of the majority of us. Somehow we're all supposed to simply hang our heads in shame that our ancestors weren't enlightened enough or sensitive enough to women and minorities (even though everyone else's were worse). We should never celebrate their victories and triumphs lest some minority somewhere complain. This is one of the reasons I think the Left are all cringing, spineless wimps. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Keepitsimple Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Posted January 14, 2015 What I don't get is how we're supposed to celebrate and cherish the cultural traditions and histories of every minority group in the country, however small and recently arrived, but not that of the majority of us. Somehow we're all supposed to simply hang our heads in shame that our ancestors weren't enlightened enough or sensitive enough to women and minorities (even though everyone else's were worse). We should never celebrate their victories and triumphs lest some minority somewhere complain. This is one of the reasons I think the Left are all cringing, spineless wimps. The hard Left (not to be confused with people who "lean" Left) are masterful at political correctness and the accompanying faux-outrage. They commonly use words like "terrified" and "horrified". Other gems include "gutted" and "attack on democracy". So in general - I agree with you. Quote Back to Basics
Wilber Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 You do get that trying to celebrate it divides Canadians? Not constructive. . Actually, it united Canadians. Without a united French and English Canada, this whole continent would be flying an American flag today. But let's just ignore that because it might offend a few people who can't comprehend the importance of that battle in regard to the existence of this country. How Canadian eh. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Bob Macadoo Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Actually, it united Canadians. Without a united French and English Canada, this whole continent would be flying an American flag today. But let's just ignore that because it might offend a few people who can't comprehend the importance of that battle in regard to the existence of this country. How Canadian eh. Kind of like how ISIL is uniting Syrians and Iraqis? Cool. Quote
Wilber Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Kind of like how ISIL is uniting Syrians and Iraqis? Cool. To me, that statement shows a real ignorance of this country's history. The battle was a deciding event in a war between two European colonial powers. Neither British or French Canada could have resisted the subsequent American invasions separately. Uniting British and French Canada was absolutely necessary for the country of Canada to form and remain in existence. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Keepitsimple Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) To me, that statement shows a real ignorance of this country's history. The battle was a deciding event in a war between two European colonial powers. Neither British or French Canada could have resisted the subsequent American invasions separately. Uniting British and French Canada was absolutely necessary for the country of Canada to form and remain in existence. It's a shame that so many people - even Canadian-born - do not know or cannot appreciate Canadian history - and don't know HOW to appreciate it. It's not about judging it by today's knowledge and standards - it's about understanding "the times" - what the masses thought at the time - and how some remarkable people helped to create the foundations of what we have today. To put it in context, in another century, how will people judge what is going on today? Will they understand the context? I doubt it. Love your country. Appreciate it's history. Edited January 15, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
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