Assisted Suicide in Canada.

GostHacked · December 30, 2014

I'd allow it. If a terminally ill patient wants to end it on their terms, I have no issues with it. I would guess that those who entertain this idea are ones that want to go out while they are still of sound mind. Watching someone suffer puts a terrible strain on a family as well as the person with the terminal illness.

Before my Oma passed away, she always wanted to go out before she needed to become dependent on others to continue to live. From what I understand she had the beginning stages of cancer (not sure where). I think she decided it was time to exit out and simply went to sleep and gave up the ghost. She did not engage in suicide. For her it was time. And to me I will always remember a strong woman not tarnished by the afflictions of a terminal illness. In those cases the terminal illness cannot be cured. Enjoy life while you can and then call it quits on your own terms while you still can.

I think it needs to be approached with some dignity for the patient and the family.

drummindiver · December 31, 2014

I agree that under stringent conditions, a person should have the right to end their suffering. Conversely, is the doctor, who has taken an Hippocratic Oath to preserve life then obligated to help end their patients' life?

drummindiver · December 31, 2014

Why can't terminal conservatives just live and die according to their own Sharia-like values and rules and leave the rest of society alone?

Are you serious? That is so offensive I can't believe this post isn't flagged. I'm pretty positive you have no grasp on the reality of what sharia law is. Or Canadian Conservatism for that matter.

eyeball · December 31, 2014

Welcome to the forum!

drummindiver · December 31, 2014

Thank you for having me.

And just because you have a lot more posts than I does not mean I am not disturbed by this comparison of our democratically elected government to ideology as inherently dangerous as Sharia law.

Just sayin.

guyser · December 31, 2014

Sharia-like values ,

Sharia-like values,

Sharia-like values

...reading comprehension. Its important. Let me be clear about that.

drummindiver · December 31, 2014

Sharia-like values ,

Sharia-like values,

Sharia-like values

Sharia-like values

...reading comprehension. Its important. Let me be clear about that.

Let be clear. Hell,let me be clearer. When you state "Why can't terminal conservatives just live and die according to their own Sharia-like values and rules and leave the rest of society alone?:" you are directly comparing the two. As you have a very limited grasp on comprehending what you are reading, allow me to elucidate. He is/was comparing Conservatism to Sharia Law.

Directly Comparing the two.

Directly comparing the two.

Unfortunately, you do not have a grasp on "reading comprehension" and all that it entails.

Like making astute observations that make any sense.

Make any sense.

guyser · December 31, 2014

:rolleyes:

He is/was comparing Conservatism to Sharia Law.

Directly Comparing the two.

Dont know what 'like' means I take it.

drummindiver · December 31, 2014

Dont know what 'like' means I take it.

Nope. No clue.what it means. I understand you agree with this inflammatory comment. I also understand that you are still not making very astute observations.

astute observations.

astute observations,

at all. But hey, at least you can post emoticons. To imply you were being sarcastic. When in fact you are just ignorant. And I mean that in the literal sense.

The literal sense.

like¹

[lahyk]

Examples

Word Origin

adjective, ( Poetic) liker, likest.
1.
of the same form, appearance, kind, character, amount, etc.:
I cannot remember a like instance.

2.
corresponding or agreeing in general or in some noticeable respect; similar; analogous:
drawing, painting, and like arts.

3.
bearing resemblance.

Edited December 31, 2014 by drummindiver

guyser · December 31, 2014

Nope. No clue.

Already knew that,you proved that with your earlier post.

WestCoastRunner · January 1, 2015

I think it's safe to assume that anyone who is terminally ill is likely depressed.

.

My point was that if a depressed patient is not terminally ill, a physician is not required.

jbg · January 1, 2015

Are Canadian doctor's forced to perform abortions?

The difference is that an abortion is a discrete procedure and part of a medical specialty. In terms of assisted suicide, there are Dr. Kevorkians. However most that would be getting involved are people's regular doctor, who may have their own views on assisting suicide. They are the ones who, as a practical matter, may be forced to perform a procedure they don't agree with.

But read my earlier posts. I generally support assisted suicide.

Big Guy · January 1, 2015

Perhaps the answer might be euthanasia kits. Some kind of package of drugs and/or syringes and/or IV devices. The kit would come with clear instructions so a doctor would not be required but operable by a loving family member. If the challenge is locating a physician then the kit process may solve that problem.

Signals.Cpl · January 1, 2015

Perhaps the answer might be euthanasia kits. Some kind of package of drugs and/or syringes and/or IV devices. The kit would come with clear instructions so a doctor would not be required but operable by a loving family member. If the challenge is locating a physician then the kit process may solve that problem.

Would it be such a problem finding doctors willing to do this? I realize that there may be a great many doctors who will want no part in this but how would giving out a kit help? They will know that the one and only use for that kit is to commit suicide so wether they have a hands on part or a standoff part they still have a part to play and there is always the chance of unanticipated problems which would require a doctors assistance rather than a one size fits all kit.

drummindiver · January 1, 2015

In principle, generally I would support this. Personally I find it clearly morally wrong, however people should have the right in a free society to end their lives if they want.

In practice, however, I would oppose it if it came on the ballot for some reason. This is because, as a physician, I would not want to chance the slippery slope where the argument would be made that as public servants, we can be forced to perform assisted suicide. I would never want to be part of that myself, and while I'm sure at first any physician who wanted would be exempt, once something is established the goalposts always get moved. For the sake of the long view, I would want to stay as far away from that line of reasoning as possible.

hitops, and this is off topic, but why, as a physician, do you find this morally wrong? You agree that people should have the choice, and I'm sure you have seen people at the worst time of their suffering. Isn't ending suffering compassionately more important than the ethos of preserving life at all costs? I understand Hippocratic Oath is for the preservation of life. I also understand your concern about the evolution of what is acceptable and expected, but, as a physician, you are still entitled to choose and deny services for you patients, aren't you?

TimG · January 1, 2015

I would never want to be part of that myself, and while I'm sure at first any physician who wanted would be exempt, once something is established the goalposts always get moved.

Well, I would hope that any assisted suicide law would require that the person asking administer any drugs required to accomplish the goal and the physician would only be required to provide an independent assessment of whether there is a medical justification for suicide. If you feel there is no medical basis for suicide they you would be free to say so and refuse to provide the prescription required. Are there any other situations where you are required to provide prescriptions that you do not deem necessary?

dre · January 2, 2015

Perhaps the answer might be euthanasia kits. Some kind of package of drugs and/or syringes and/or IV devices. The kit would come with clear instructions so a doctor would not be required but operable by a loving family member. If the challenge is locating a physician then the kit process may solve that problem.

This is basically how it already works. Its called morphine... The doctors prescribe it in sufficient quantities to assist suicide all the time and family members administer the lethal dose. I'm personally fine with the status quo. There no need to involve politicians in questions of medical ethics and no need in forcing doctors into a more direct role in AS then the role they already have.

jbg · January 2, 2015

This is basically how it already works. Its called morphine... The doctors prescribe it in sufficient quantities to assist suicide all the time and family members administer the lethal dose. I'm personally fine with the status quo. There no need to involve politicians in questions of medical ethics and no need in forcing doctors into a more direct role in AS then the role they already have.

In my mother's case, about 2 weeks ago, the hospice service nurse recommended morphine and my mother's caregiver administered it. She was dead in about 24 hours, give or take.

eyeball · January 2, 2015

There no need to involve politicians in questions of medical ethics

And there is definitely no good reason to not mock social conservatives for having some notion that have a right or duty to intrude on my right to live or die according to my own terms.

They can go live in the Caliphate if that's how conservatively they wish to live and more importantly dictate how others should live their lives. We really don't need their type in Canada. Surely we're not going to make it illegal for them to leave Canada, in fact I'd donate to the cause and I'd even waive the tax deduction for charitable donations.

Edited January 2, 2015 by eyeball

drummindiver · January 2, 2015

In my mother's case, about 2 weeks ago, the hospice service nurse recommended morphine and my mother's caregiver administered it. She was dead in about 24 hours, give or take.

jbg, so soryy for your loss.

dre · January 2, 2015

In my mother's case, about 2 weeks ago, the hospice service nurse recommended morphine and my mother's caregiver administered it. She was dead in about 24 hours, give or take.

Sorry for your loss

jbg · January 2, 2015

Sorry for your loss

jbg, so soryy for your loss.

Thank you.

I was definitely not looking for sympathy. I was explaining how it works. And drummindiver, I sent you two private messages.

And for both of you and the board, it was too long in coming; three years. But this is why you've seen little of me the last month.

Edited January 2, 2015 by jbg

eyeball · January 2, 2015

It doesn't always work that way. Although my brother's pain and sedation drugs were powerful and virtually coma inducing they were not lethal and it was still the cancer that killed him.

The device my brother was given for self-administering medication was in our hands the last few days. Unbeknownst to us it recorded the number of times we gave Mike a hit and was recording us giving him up to 50 hits an hour which of course would have put him out of his misery pretty quickly. I guess in ours it didn't dawn on anyone the damn thing wasn't actually doing much more than providing a glimpse into our minds and feelings. We can laugh about it now but if it looks like I'm going the same route I'll put a couple of flaps of heroin on the stash, hang in at home until the last possible week or so and just sidestep the whole hospital/palliative gong show. The foods really crappy and I'd hate to put my loved ones through the agony of waiting for me to croak so they can get on with living.

As always, if the Taliban doesn't like it they can go blow a gasket.

Edited January 2, 2015 by eyeball

Big Guy · January 2, 2015

I have spent some time with Nursing Homes in the past. The idea of individuals collecting a "suicide stash" of painkillers is not uncommon. It is always a moral dilemma when a personal stash is discovered as to how to deal with it.

TimG · January 2, 2015

This is basically how it already works. Its called morphine... The doctors prescribe it in sufficient quantities to assist suicide all the time and family members administer the lethal dose.

It may happen but it is also illegal. We should not need to depend on people being willing to break the law. For that reason alone politicians need to get involved. Edited January 2, 2015 by TimG