Argus Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 Oh really. And how do you know that besides from your opinions? Female teachers are put on trial for having sex with their minor students, why wouldn't they be held accountable for other sexualized or sexist remarks? I have never seen a case where they were. Ever. Perhaps there have been some, somewhere. There were none at CRA that I'm aware of when I was with the union. No one ever discussed women's behaviour in any of the harassment seminars I took part in. They were always described as the victims of harassing speech and behaviour from men. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 Aside from how government manages things, your attitude seems to be that if you can't discuss sex at work then you're doomed to live under 1984. I'm not sure why you're so freaked out at the idea some young women brought sex into the conversation at times. Are you a particularly religious man, by chance? They're not offensive to normal people. Normality being whatever you feel is okay, right? Ok, so you work in an insane environment then, by your own account. Can you change it to be more human ? If not, why don't you quit ? I did quit. And no, input from below is neither expected nor desired. HR policies are created by upper level committees within HR, which in turn are made up the graduates of human resources and other Humanities courses, and about 95% female. Employees receive the rules from above, much as Moses brought down the stones with the commandments on them. "Though shalt commit no HUMOR to the email system!" Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 I'm not sure why you're so freaked out at the idea some young women brought sex into the conversation at times. Are you a particularly religious man, by chance? I'm not freaked out by that at all. It's your inability to understand the basics of social life in a normal workplace that surprises me. Normality being whatever you feel is okay, right? I think I have a pretty good sense of it, yes. I wouldn't discuss sex with strangers, or in situations where it wasn't expected or in a professional setting. You seem to find that point of view outrageous though, am I right ? Is that why you're trying to chip away at my take on this ? I did quit. And no, input from below is neither expected nor desired. No exit interview ? That's a bad sign. HR policies are created by upper level committees within HR, which in turn are made up the graduates of human resources and other Humanities courses, and about 95% female. Employees receive the rules from above, much as Moses brought down the stones with the commandments on them. "Though shalt commit no HUMOR to the email system!" It's an utterly hysterical viewpoint, which makes me doubt the whole story frankly. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 I did quit. Well, then you did the right thing. It sounds like a corrupt system, if what you post is to be believed. I don't personally believe it, but let's just leave it at that. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Argus Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I'm not freaked out by that at all. It's your inability to understand the basics of social life in a normal workplace that surprises me. Very tightly constrained, extremely polite and desperately inoffensive. I understand it. I just don't understand a preference for that sort of thing. I think I have a pretty good sense of it, yes. I wouldn't discuss sex with strangers, or in situations where it wasn't expected or in a professional setting. You seem to find that point of view outrageous though, am I right ? Is that why you're trying to chip away at my take on this ? I wouldn't discuss sex with strangers, either. But it wouldn't freak me out if someone brought it up, and I wouldn't run screaming to HR in horror. I just don't get why some people get so upset about such things. It's an utterly hysterical viewpoint, which makes me doubt the whole story frankly. Because in your experience HR always holds extensive discussions with the employees about what rules of behaviour they ought to be abiding by? Edited January 3, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
WestCoastRunner Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 I just don't get why some people get so upset about such things. This is the crux of your problem and the problem of women who have to deal with men like you, I certainly don't get why you don't get why women get upset about these fb comments. Perhaps you should twist your thinking around to the perspective of women and why women find these comments upsetting and distressful. If you can't figure that out, then you are a lost cause. Do you know what empathy means? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Argus Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 This is the crux of your problem and the problem of women who have to deal with men like you, I certainly don't get why you don't get why women get upset about these fb comments. Perhaps you should twist your thinking around to the perspective of women and why women find these comments upsetting and distressful. If you can't figure that out, then you are a lost cause. Do you know what empathy means? I have tremendous empathy. But not for whiny people crying about something that didn't cause any damage, and in any case, wasn't even directed at or near them. I can easily see how the women actually mentioned on that fb page would be embarrassed and angry. They have agreed on a resolution to the case. Good for them. You were not mentioned, however, and neither were all those academics who demanded a disciplinary hearing, or all those fembots who protested in the streets. If you and they are distressed and upset by it then you're all simply overly emotional and overly sensitive. I feel no empathy for you. And I don't see why those men should be punished because you and others like you have emotional problems. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
WestCoastRunner Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 I have tremendous empathy. But not for whiny people crying about something that didn't cause any damage, and in any case, wasn't even directed at or near them. I can easily see how the women actually mentioned on that fb page would be embarrassed and angry. They have agreed on a resolution to the case. Good for them. You were not mentioned, however, and neither were all those academics who demanded a disciplinary hearing, or all those fembots who protested in the streets. If you and they are distressed and upset by it then you're all simply overly emotional and overly sensitive. I feel no empathy for you. And I don't see why those men should be punished because you and others like you have emotional problems. You are working in overdrive to convince yourself of your defective thinking. Suit yourself. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Very tightly constrained, extremely polite and desperately inoffensive. I understand it. I just don't understand a preference for that sort of thing. No, that's your imagination. It's actually very much like being at a party with casual acquaintances. Would you feel the need to bring up sex in that situation ? I wouldn't discuss sex with strangers, either. But it wouldn't freak me out if someone brought it up, and I wouldn't run screaming to HR in horror. Nor would I, but it would be strange if somebody felt the need to do that. Because in your experience HR always holds extensive discussions with the employees about what rules of behaviour they ought to be abiding by? No. In my experience people just know how to behave like adults. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
jacee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 I wouldn't discuss sex with strangers, either. But it wouldn't freak me out if someone brought it up, and I wouldn't run screaming to HR in horror. I just don't get why some people get so upset about such things. This wasn't about sex.It was about threatening violent rape. Do you understand the difference? . Quote
cybercoma Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 No. In my experience people just know how to behave like adults. Lucky you. In my experience, a lot of so-called adults need babysitters. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 This wasn't about sex. It was about threatening violent rape. Do you understand the difference? Good point. Talking about this like it's casual sex banter is crazy. Talking about incapacitating women then raping them is not casual sex banter. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2015 Report Posted January 4, 2015 Lucky you. In my experience, a lot of so-called adults need babysitters. Really ? In your workplace too ? They would learn pretty fast not to behave that way in my industry, as: 1) They would be let go pretty quickly. 2) Too many short stints on a resume start to raise questions. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Argus Posted January 5, 2015 Report Posted January 5, 2015 This wasn't about sex. It was about threatening violent rape. Do you understand the difference? . The real issue here is that men were talking about women in a fairly typically disrespectful and lecherous fashion, and through whatever medium, the great, indignant, self-righteous mob of the politically correct were able to see a record of the conversation and are suitably horrified. Imagine talking about women as though they were sex objects! <sputter-sputter>! How dare they!? Who would ever do such a thing! Nobody made any threats that I'm aware of. Do you understand the difference between joking and threatening? No never mind. The answer is clear. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 5, 2015 Report Posted January 5, 2015 No, that's your imagination. It's actually very much like being at a party with casual acquaintances. Would you feel the need to bring up sex in that situation ? Perhaps I see some of the problem. The people you work with are 'casual acquaintances', not friends. Have they been to your house, you to theirs? Have you met their families? Do you go out for drinks and lunch with them regularly? Have you gone to their weddings? Family funerals? As far as bringing up sex at a party, possibly. Usually these things don't appear out of the blue but through a series of conversational topics which lead in that direction. No. In my experience people just know how to behave like adults. Really? But I guess you live in a very special place in the universe, for if that was the standard we wouldn't have all these institutionally enforced rules of behaviour and conversational topics throughout business industry and education. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2015 Report Posted January 5, 2015 Perhaps I see some of the problem. The people you work with are 'casual acquaintances', not friends. Have they been to your house, you to theirs? Have you met their families? Do you go out for drinks and lunch with them regularly? Have you gone to their weddings? Family funerals? You need to delineate friendship and work associations. There are friends and then there are work friends. Would you fire your friend ? If you pause to answer that, then you're too close to your work mates. Business is business. Really? But I guess you live in a very special place in the universe, No, I think you do. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Big Guy Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Posted January 5, 2015 Dalhousie has suspended 13 dental students from "clinical" classes. This will keep these students from dealing with patients for the duration of the process. I have seen and heard very different interpretations of exactly what was posted on that Facebook page and cannot locate it on the web. If anyone has seen it please share. I would like to see these suspensions or subsequent law suits go to court. It would be interesting to see how the law looks at Facebook postings, free speech, privacy issues and the University responsibilities and power/criteria to suspend. It may set an interesting precedent in what people place on their Facebook pages, what time in their lives it was placed and the accuracy of what appears on these pages. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted January 5, 2015 Report Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) You need to delineate friendship and work associations. There are friends and then there are work friends. A friend is a friend, wherever they are found. Would you fire your friend ? Depends on circumstances, but I'd certainly give them more of a break. Business is business. Why would I care about that? You seem to be presenting the employer's point of view which wants us all to be robots and not care about each other as the only valid one. I don't CARE about the employer's point of view. Edited January 5, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2015 Report Posted January 5, 2015 I don't CARE about the employer's point of view. Note to self, do not add this to 'other interests' on resume... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
TimG Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I have seen and heard very different interpretations of exactly what was posted on that Facebook page and cannot locate it on the web.Whatever it was the lynch mob is going after the wrong people. People claiming to be "harmed" by facebook posts (even vile ones) are not fit for a job requiring that one deal with unreasonable/irrational patients. A thick skin is a job requirement. I certainly would not want to have work done by a dentist who made a fuss about such things. Edited January 7, 2015 by TimG Quote
jacee Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Facebook group full of jokes about drugging and raping women. The Class of DDS 2015 Gentlemen group has been taken down, but screenshots obtained by CBC show its 13 members posted rape jokes next to pictures of women. Examples include, "Bang until stress is relieved or unconscious (girl)" and "Can you tell me what this chloroform smells like?" del reference to sister daughter mother. Edited January 7, 2015 by jacee Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 I certainly would not want to have work done by a dentist who made a fuss about such things. I certainly would not want nor would I want my daughters to have work done by dentists who post such vile rape jokes. See Jaycee's post above. Actually, they are not jokes. They are violent threats against women in general. It doesn't matter that many people other than the colleagues have expressed outrage over this incident. These kinds of statements do absolutely nothing to bring 'violence against women' out of the dark and into the light to be openly discussed when individuals defend these posts. On second thought, we are discussing them, so this is a good thing. I honestly haven't read of anyone who would go on record to support these posts. Does anyone know of any? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
jacee Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 I certainly would not want nor would I want my daughters to have work done by dentists who post such vile rape jokes. See Jaycee's post above. I deleted it. Who the hell needs to be told that ... except TimG. Actually, they are not jokes. They are violent threats against women in general. It doesn't matter that many people other than the colleagues have expressed outrage over this incident. These kinds of statements do absolutely nothing to bring 'violence against women' out of the dark and into the light to be openly discussed when individuals defend these posts. On second thought, we are discussing them, so this is a good thing. I honestly haven't read of anyone who would go on record to support these posts. Does anyone know of any? TimG. . Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 I deleted it. Who the hell needs to be told that ... except TimG. TimG. . Except he's anonymous, so is Argus. I deleted it. Who the hell needs to be told that ... except TimG. TimG. . You are right, as usual. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
jacee Posted January 7, 2015 Report Posted January 7, 2015 Except he's anonymous, so is Argus. He knows who he is. I wonder if he knows that God is coming and She.Is.Pissed. Quote
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