Scotty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Posted December 2, 2014 As for the OP, there are too many variables to effectively monitor this. Using BMIs to determine a person's healthy is obviously of folly as many Pro Athletes would be morbidly obese. So you want to use body fat? Then you'll have people claiming they have a diease or that they have a medical condition. Then they'll have to prove it. Otherwise, if you're fat, you're breaking the law. It's not had to tell who's fat. You don't need BMIs for that. Also an overwhelming majority of obese people are at a lower income, You can't do exercise if you're low income? I bet if we set them to cutting weeds or clearing snow they'll start losing that weight. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Posted December 2, 2014 Really? Rather than pay an extra three krone for a burger they'd pay for a trip down to Germany to get one? I'd still like to see junk food taxed out of reach. Junk food is not the issue. Lack of self discipline is the issue. Overeating is the issue. Lack of exercise is the issue. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Posted December 2, 2014 I agree entirely, the key being, proper quantities. I daresay everything is poisonous if you up the dose high enough, and while 300lb youngsters with type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure are primarily the responsibility of the parents, and criminal charges for child abuse would not be out of place, If parents let their kids balloon up in size like that then they're unfit parents and the children should be taken away. That would be a last resort, but those kids are going to face unhappy and diminished lives if they remain fat through to adulthood. They need to be sent to fat camp and their parents need to be sent to nutrition camp. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Posted December 2, 2014 It wouldn't just be restaurant food. A can of coke or mountain dew would take the hit too. I drink coke and I'm healthy. Why should I have to pay more because fatties can't control their impulse to gorge? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Posted December 2, 2014 To the OP, your idea sounds like government tyranny over my right to get fat and eat whatever I want. Government shouldn't be able to outright control what I do to my own body. But government has to pay for repairing and maintaining your fat body when you develop a myriad of diseases because of your unhealthy eating habits? I don't think so! As for overfeeding kids, that borders on criminal. What are you going to do, jail obese people? Force them to take part in diets and exercises in order to maintain their health coverage. A better alternative would be to tax foods that are bad for you This punishes people who eat these things in moderation, and who exercise and don't get fat. Why should they be punished because of gluttony? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Boges Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Then they'll have to prove it. Otherwise, if you're fat, you're breaking the law. It's not had to tell who's fat. You don't need BMIs for that.As people get older weight gain is just a natural result of a lowered metabolism. Women find it harder to lose weight than men. What about women that have had several children? There are way to many variables. You could penalize people once they've incurred lifestyle-related illnesses. You could also do that with smokers or people that partake in risky lifestyle choices whether it be drugs, sex, or extreme sports. In Canada, abortions are covered by the government. At some point getting pregnant can be considered to be a cost to society (especially for those on government assistance). Should all that be illegal too? Obese people are convenient targets because they usually aren't appealing to look at and to many their problems are fully preventable. But so many people are taking advantage of the government dealing with problems that are largely preventable. You can't do exercise if you're low income? I bet if we set them to cutting weeds or clearing snow they'll start losing that weight. Probably can't have have a gym membership. If you're not sitting at home on Welfare then you'd probably have multiple jobs and very little leisure time, especially with kids. Edited December 2, 2014 by Boges Quote
Moonbox Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 If you are eating cheap food with poor nutritional value (eg kraft dinner) your body tells you to eat more because it needs more nutrition. but not for an extra 100 lbs of body weight. If you can afford to get that fat off of Kraft dinner, you can afford the occasional sprinkle of broccoli or protein. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Guest Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 Junk food is not the issue. Lack of self discipline is the issue. Overeating is the issue. Lack of exercise is the issue. Well, if we all had self discipline we wouldn't have any addiction problems whatsoever. Not gonna happen though. I think ignorance and stubbornness is as much an issue as those you quote. People either don't know they are killing themselves, or they just refuse to acknowledge it. Quote
Guest Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) If parents let their kids balloon up in size like that then they're unfit parents and the children should be taken away. That would be a last resort, but those kids are going to face unhappy and diminished lives if they remain fat through to adulthood. They need to be sent to fat camp and their parents need to be sent to nutrition camp. Fully agree. Can get a little out of hand though, as with he recent $100K bill for some woman with a kid who needed surgery to install vice grips on his gut, Edited December 3, 2014 by bcsapper Quote
Guest Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 I drink coke and I'm healthy. Why should I have to pay more because fatties can't control their impulse to gorge? Just unlucky, I guess... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 You know what they say about grocery shopping, do it all around the perimeter and stay away from the center aisles. Quote
Topaz Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 As A person who did gain weight because of my thyroid was out of balance and didn't know exactly why I was gaining the weight all of a sudden, until I did research and went to my doctor for help, then it took 2-3 years of getting the right amount of medication and more women are affect by this than men. Then there's one's age, mid-50's both sexes loses hormones and body slows down and the weight comes a calling.....sometimes aging sucks!! Quote
jacee Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 But government has to pay for repairing and maintaining your fat body when you develop a myriad of diseases because of your unhealthy eating habits? I don't think so! As for overfeeding kids, that borders on criminal. Force them to take part in diets and exercises in order to maintain their health coverage. You could apply that to drunks and drunk drivers too. Their habits involve increased risk of health care usage. Force them into treatment, or cut them off health care too?. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 But government has to pay for repairing and maintaining your fat body when you develop a myriad of diseases because of your unhealthy eating habits? This statement isn't taking what I said in context with the rest of my post. This punishes people who eat these things in moderation, and who exercise and don't get fat. Why should they be punished because of gluttony? If they eat bad foods in moderation then it won't hurt them very much financially. You should have every right to be as fat and gluttonous as you want, as long as you pay for the public burden it causes. You can't force someone to not eat, and you shouldn't chain anyone to a treadmill. Making people pay more per crappy food seems less of a breach of civil liberties, probably much easier to do, and probably much cheaper for gov to do. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 You know what they say about grocery shopping, do it all around the perimeter and stay away from the center aisles. What if I need some paper towels? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 What if I need some paper towels? That's allowable just keep your hands off the Frito's. Quote
guyser Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 Obesity costs trillions every year. For a society with public health care, the costs are not merely to the individuals who lard up, but to the health care budgets of their provinces. Accordingly, I think it should be illegal to be fat. Parents of fat children should be reported to childrens aid societies and called in for diet and exercise counseling for their kids. Lets expand on this wonderful theory and get to the root of all our healthcare costs. Scotty, you and your family and relatives will report to the nearest medical clinic for testing to see which diseases you are likely to incur later in life. Once the test results are in we will up your contribution to our medical healthcare system . Failure to pay the premium will deny you and your offcpring any healthcare and will in fact be cause for arrest. Thanks, have a great day. Quote
Moonbox Posted December 4, 2014 Report Posted December 4, 2014 Lets expand on this wonderful theory and get to the root of all our healthcare costs. Scotty, you and your family and relatives will report to the nearest medical clinic for testing to see which diseases you are likely to incur later in life. Once the test results are in we will up your contribution to our medical healthcare system . Failure to pay the premium will deny you and your offcpring any healthcare and will in fact be cause for arrest. Obesity is self-inflicted, self-preventable and self-treatable. It's ultimately a lifestyle choice, much the same as drugs, alcohol and tobacco addictions are. We use taxes and laws to control those activities and we should do the same with obesity. Maybe we can't make it illegal to be fat, Scotty goes to far there, but we should definitely be less accommodating. We can make it a lot more expensive and a lot less convenient to lard up. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Peter F Posted December 5, 2014 Report Posted December 5, 2014 ...and drive. or walk. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Bryan Posted December 5, 2014 Report Posted December 5, 2014 Obesity is self-inflicted, self-preventable and self-treatable. It's ultimately a lifestyle choice, much the same as drugs, alcohol and tobacco addictions are. Absolutely. There is a small range by which different people process/absorb/pass/burn/or store the nutrients they eat, but it's physically impossible for a person to be clinically obese unless they are eating a LOT of food. We use taxes and laws to control those activities and we should do the same with obesity. Maybe we can't make it illegal to be fat, Scotty goes to far there, but we should definitely be less accommodating. We can make it a lot more expensive and a lot less convenient to lard up. I agree with this in principle, the problem is, there is no need for anyone to smoke, drink, do drugs, but everyone MUST eat. How do you tailor such taxes so that they only affect those who overdo it? Give people a ration card that tracks the food they buy, and kicks in additional levies once they surpass a certain threshold? Quote
Moonbox Posted December 5, 2014 Report Posted December 5, 2014 I agree with this in principle, the problem is, there is no need for anyone to smoke, drink, do drugs, but everyone MUST eat. How do you tailor such taxes so that they only affect those who overdo it? Give people a ration card that tracks the food they buy, and kicks in additional levies once they surpass a certain threshold? Nothing like that. It's more about attempting to influence behavior. Making it more expensive and less convenient to continue undesirable behavior is the goal. Smoking is still legal, but it's far more expensive than it used to be. The amount of money smokers save ends up being a form of short-term gratification for quitting. Making it uncomfortable and inconvenient to get your fix is another way. If you can't just light up in the middle of a restaurant or on a patio, the habit can become frustrating and uncomfortable. Similar things can be done with obesity, particularly with obvious offenders. Taxing fast food eateries and processes could make it more expensive and less convenient. Taxing chips/snacks, soft drinks, candy and prepared meals at the grocery store could be another. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Boges Posted December 5, 2014 Report Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Similar things can be done with obesity, particularly with obvious offenders. Taxing fast food eateries and processes could make it more expensive and less convenient. Taxing chips/snacks, soft drinks, candy and prepared meals at the grocery store could be another. Actually they do tax chips and snack food. Other food doesn't get any tax whatsoever. Let's say all I want to do is eat cheese and Triscuits. Both can seen somewhat healthy in moderation. Would you tax it so people just eat less of it? Taxing food to help fight obesity won't work. You can promote healthy lifestyles and try making healthy food more affordable. But ultimately, like with alcoholism and smoking it's a personal choice. Now I wouldn't oppose some punitive measures implemented against people that are clearly ignoring good medical advice and using up medical resources, but what's goose is good for the gander. Measures would have to implemented on people who continue to have other unhealthy lifestyles that use up government resources. Probably not that PC when we're talking about drug users and people who don't want to use birth control. Edited December 5, 2014 by Boges Quote
Moonbox Posted December 5, 2014 Report Posted December 5, 2014 Actually they do tax chips and snack food. Other food doesn't get any tax whatsoever. Then we can tax it more, as well as adding other foods to the taxable junk-food categories. Let's say all I want to do is eat cheese and Triscuits. Both can seen somewhat healthy in moderation. Would you tax it so people just eat less of it? Sure. For the people who want to eat it in moderation, the cost won't be noticeable. For the people who go through a box every two days, it will be. Taxing food to help fight obesity won't work. You can promote healthy lifestyles try making healthy food more affordable. But ultimately, like with alcoholism and smoking it's a personal choice. and I don't think we'd have to look far to see how alcohol and tobacco taxes have curbed consumption. As you know the percentage of smokers, alcoholics and fatties increase as household income declines. The taxes won't be discriminating based on that, but they will be indirectly targeting higher risk demographics. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Boges Posted December 5, 2014 Report Posted December 5, 2014 Tobacco taxes have curbed smoking rates. A lot of that now comes from contraband tobacco now though. Alcohol taxes don't really curb consumption though. Prices just make people less likely to buy premium brands. The LCBO lies when they say they're about Social Responsibility. If this is all about Healthcare costs then why don't we allow people to buy their own healthcare if they want. That'll reduce costs. How about we prevent people from going to Emergency Rooms when the obviously don't have an emergency or ration doctors appoints to prevent elderly people from going to the doctor's office regularly even if they don't need it. All method of reducing costs without adding to the costs of products absolutely everyone uses. Quote
Big Guy Posted December 5, 2014 Report Posted December 5, 2014 If the government taxes rich foods and fattening foods then it will little effect on me. We live near to Caledonia and the Reserves. Already a short trip gets us very cheap cigarettes. The aboriginal government is bringing in alcohol sales so soon we can go over for some cheap smokes and really cheap alcohol. If the federal government now goes after fatty foods then we can start to do most of our shopping on the Reserve. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
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