Iran Key To Middle East Peace

[Argus]

Anyone who thinks Iran is an angel, is either not informed or is in denial.

Iran has continuously violated the rights of its own people by suppressing free speech and sexual freedom.

Oooo. Quote an indictment! It violates free speech and sexual freedom! Oh my!

Let's not talk about the mass imprisonment, torture, rape, executions, including extra-judicial ones, support of terrorism and guerrillas across the middle east.

No, no, let's frown sternly that they suppress sexual freedom, then get back to condemning those Jews.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Argus

[Hudson Jones]

Oooo. Quote an indictment! It violates free speech and sexual freedom! Oh my!

Let's not talk about the mass imprisonment, torture, rape, executions, including extra-judicial ones, support of terrorism and guerrillas across the middle east.

No, no, let's frown sternly that they suppress sexual freedom, then get back to condemning those Jews.

Take it easy there with your selective outrage.

I never said they don't imprison, torture and execute (not sure about the word "mass" and rapes (are you channeling Trump?), like they round people up and rape them).

Those things are all part of violating free speech.

All that aside, I think you'd have some credibility with your outrage of Iran's behaviour if you weren't always trying to excuse and justify Israel`s violations of human rights, which, in many aspects has been far worse than Iran.

Before you go onto one of your selective rants again, it's a good idea to digest the following:

The real denial is from people who imagine no one is holding Iran or any other ME dictatorship to criticism too.

Zooming out from this the real issue simply resolves as the same problem humanity has faced throughout our species space and time - an abuse of the power in the hands of the people the power is in.

The only reason criticism bites harder when its directed at abusive self-avowed shining beacons of democracy and freedom is because it should.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Hudson Jones

[Big Guy]

Iran continues to increase in prestige and power in the Middle East. As the condemnation of Israeli tactics increases, so does the respect of Iran within the region:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/turkey-iran-agree-strengthen-economic-ties-160416155434319.html

Time to review Canada's relationship with Israel, wash our hands of them and their actions and look to Iran as the next leader of the Middle East.

[Argus]

Take it easy there with your selective outrage.

I never said they don't imprison, torture and execute (not sure about the word "mass" and rapes (are you channeling Trump?), like they round people up and rape them).

You never said they did, either. What you did say was that Israel, which does none of those things, is far worse. Israel has an independent court system. It doesn't torture prisoners nor execute nor use rape as a weapon. Iran does all that. Nor has Israel killed "hundreds of thousands" of Palestinians. That's total crap and you know it. Palestinian deaths are well under ten thousand in the last thirty years and most of those were armed guerrilas. On the other hand, Iran executes a thousand people or so every year, for a wide variety of offenses. That doesn't even count the number who die in extrajudicial killings in its prisons, or the number who die at the hands of terrorists or guerrilas it sponsors in other countries.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Anyone who thinks Iran is an angel, is either not informed or is in denial.

Iran has continuously violated the rights of its own people by suppressing free speech and sexual freedom.

Whereas Israel has continuously violated the rights of the people it has been occupying for decades.

Looking at the facts on the ground, it's easy to see that the violations committed by Israel against the Palestinians are far worse than anything the Iranian hardliners do to their own people. Israel has killed or injured hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. It has stolen their land and continues to demolish their homes while systematically annexing their land. The Palestinians lack freedom of movement. In some places more than others. Israel's violations are numerous and have been happening for a long time.

There is a shift happening in Iran. The hardliners are losing their power. It's something that they have no control over. In Israel, the BDS movement is the reason Israel will have to change its course which will happen in the near future.

This is a great post and I agree with many statements made in the post completely. What I can add is that there is a distinction between Iran which posters keep on referring to and the religious islamic government in power in Iran who clearly do not have the support or backing of a great majority of its people based on recent presidential and parliamentary results.

Iran is an ancient country and a great civilization which now has the most progressive and educated people in the world and who possesses the largest gas reserves and fourth largest oil reserves and whose industries are well developed and rooted and has the largest car making industry in the middle east, not to mention the petro industries and steel industries and the fact that unlike its neighbors who are heavily relying on imports of military hardware Iran is manufacturing most of its own military needs thanks to the 8 year imposed war with Iraq and decades of western inspired economic sanctions many of its industries are self sufficient.

Iran has been demonized purposely by Israel and the US in the past few decades. Once being a good guy of the middle east when ruled by the Shah suddenly became (or painted by Mossad and CIA) as evil and terrorist nation overnight after its revolution and standing up for its rights. If full democracy is established in Iran this will be a very positive development for the whole world in many ways and indeed this is a fact that Iran is a power and key player in both middle eastern and world affairs now and will remain so forever. It is best to try to establish a democracy in Iran rather than seeking anonymity and war since the latter has only strengthen the hard line elements within Iran government and made its economy stronger and independent but the former would bring back powerful Iran to the world scene in a positive way as the moderate elements heavily backed by a great majority of its population will gradually come to the top and take over.

Edited April 17, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[kactus]

This is a great post and I agree with many statements made in the post completely. What I can add is that there is a distinction between Iran which posters keep on referring to and the religious islamic government in power in Iran who clearly do not have the support or backing of a great majority of its people based on recent presidential and parliamentary results.

Iran is an ancient country and a great civilization which now has the most progressive and educated people in the world and who possesses the largest gas reserves and fourth largest oil reserves and whose industries are well developed and rooted and has the largest car making industry in the middle east, not to mention the petro industries and steel industries and the fact that unlike its neighbors who are heavily relying on imports of military hardware Iran is manufacturing most of its own military needs thanks to the 8 year imposed war with Iraq and decades of western inspired economic sanctions many of its industries are self sufficient.

Iran has been demonized purposely by Israel and the US in the past few decades. Once being a good guy of the middle east when ruled by the Shah suddenly became (or painted by Mossad and CIA) as evil and terrorist nation overnight after its revolution and standing up for its rights. If full democracy is established in Iran this will be a very positive development for the whole world in many ways and indeed this is a fact that Iran is a power and key player in both middle eastern and world affairs now and will remain so forever. It is best to try to establish a democracy in Iran rather than seeking anonymity and war since the latter has only strengthen the hard line elements within Iran government and made its economy stronger and independent but the former would bring back powerful Iran to the world scene in a positive way as the moderate elements heavily backed by a great majority of its population will gradually come to the top and take over.

Whilst I agree with everything you have said here I will add this. I have always maintained and say again that a powerful Iran is something that Israeli policy makers have been afraid of for many years....A poweful Iran economically and militarily will only shift the balance of power in the Middle East. Let's face it many of the Gulf states without oil have not much to offer. So it will only leave Israel fearful of a powerful Iran, closer to the western countries. Edited April 17, 2016 by kactus

[CITIZEN_2015]

Whilst I agree with everything you have said here I will add this. I have always maintained and say again that a powerful Iran is something that Israeli policy makers have been afraid of for many years....A poweful Iran economically and militarily will only shift the balance of power in the Middle East. Let's face it many of the Gulf states without oil have not much to offer. So it will only leave Israel fearful of a powerful Iran, closer to the western countries.

Very true. For the same reasons Israel has been seeking for decades to destroy Iran. However, as like in Iraq and Afghanistan they want someone else like US and us (Canada, Nato) to do their dirty work for them and suffer the human and economic consequences. They don't care about Canadian and US women and men drafted and dying or massive loss of civilian lives on Iran as long as they get what they want. That is to secure the state of Israel at any cost.

They are aware that the Arab states will be easily defeated in any future conflict with Israel as they have been so because of their corrupt leaders, lack of unity and lack of skills and education and under developed cultures however Iran is the only country who stands a good chance to stand up against Israeli aggression if attacked and possibly win it too both economically and militarily in near future if it continues its path and establish close relations with the west.. Its highly developed industries and rich natural resources and highly educated and advanced human resources makes Iran a stand alone regional superpower and a rival to Israel. So they wish t destroy this chance and eliminate any possible risk to themselves and while doing so sacrifice many Canadian and US lives as they couldn't care less. We MUST NOT fall into this trap and I do credit the Obama administration for not falling into Israeli bait.

Edited May 4, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

Iran is an ancient country and a great civilization which now has the most progressive and educated people in the world

This is preposterous nonsense. Iranians are not the least bit progressive. The majority support Sharia law, which defines homosexuality, apostasy and blaspheme as punishable by death, and puts severe limits on womens rights. There is also strong support for the current theocratic rule. How can you possibly make an absurd statement that says they are the world's most progressive people? As for educated, the only nobel an Iranian has ever won was the peace prize for a human rights activist, who is in exile so she won't be tortured by the Iranian government. Tiny Israel has had twelve. Germany, about the same population as Iran, has 100.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/06/11/iranians-views-mixed-on-political-role-for-religious-figures/

Iran has been demonized purposely by Israel and the US in the past few decades.

And every human rights agency on Earth. But I guess that doesn't matter to you.

[CITIZEN_2015]

This is preposterous nonsense. Iranians are not the least bit progressive. The majority support Sharia law, which defines homosexuality, apostasy and blaspheme as punishable by death, and puts severe limits on womens rights. There is also strong support for the current theocratic rule. How can you possibly make an absurd statement that says they are the world's most progressive people? As for educated, the only nobel an Iranian has ever won was the peace prize for a human rights activist, who is in exile so she won't be tortured by the Iranian government. Tiny Israel has had twelve. Germany, about the same population as Iran, has 100.

My post was removed with warning because I called you what you called me yesterday. Apart from that part I said that you see the unelected body as the Iranian people who in every even partially free election have voted overwhelmingly against them and all of above. "

[Argus]

My post was removed with warning because I called you what you called me yesterday. Apart from that part I said that you see the unelected body as the Iranian people who in every even partially free election have voted overwhelmingly against them and all of above. "

I didn't call you anything. I said you apparently lacked information. And you clearly do if you can try and pretend Iran is the world's most progressive and educated nation.

[Argus]

Whilst I agree with everything you have said here I will add this. I have always maintained and say again that a powerful Iran is something that Israeli policy makers have been afraid of for many years....A

Gee, I wonder why. I'm sure it's not because Iran has repeatedly threatened to destroy them, and that it has sponsored terrorism against Israel and against Jews for many years. Naww, that can't be it!

[CITIZEN_2015]

I didn't call you anything. I said you apparently lacked information. And you clearly do if you can try and pretend Iran is the world's most progressive and educated nation.

You called me ignorant first and I responded in kind and later your and my posts were removed. If you didn't get a warning for that (which appears so because you don't even remember) then in that case this forum is biased and one-sided in giving warnings and if so I will stop posting.

Edited April 17, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

You called me ignorant and later your and my posts were removed. If you didn't get a warning for that (which appears so because you don't even remember) then in that case this forum is biased and one-sided in giving warnings and if so I will stop posting.

You are ignorant of the realities of what is happening in the middle east, or you simply don't care about truthfulness.

[CITIZEN_2015]

You are ignorant of the realities of what is happening in the middle east, or you simply don't care about truthfulness.

And you are much more ignorant of the realities of what is happening in the middle east and elsewhere and you simply don't wish to acknowledge that.

[Argus]

And you are much more ignorant of the realities of what is happening in the middle east and elsewhere and you simply don't wish to acknowledge that.

Yeah, okay. I produce cites for what I say. You produce nothing to back up your silly opinions.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Yeah, okay. I produce cites for what I say. You produce nothing to back up your silly opinions.

I have always produce cites about how educated and progressive Iranian nation is, the feminist struggle, the developed industries, the rich resources .... I just don't do it every time that I make similar statements. This would be tiring for some.

[Argus]

I have always produce cites about how educated and progressive Iranian nation is, the feminist struggle, the developed industries, the rich resources .... I just don't do it every time that I make similar statements. This would be tiring for some.

Sure. Invite me to the next gay pride day in Iran.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Sure. Invite me to the next gay pride day in Iran.

So a sign of being progressive and educated is to be in a gay pride?

[Argus]

So a sign of being progressive and educated is to be in a gay pride?

Well, a sign of NOT being progressive is executing them.

[kactus]

Gee, I wonder why. I'm sure it's not because Iran has repeatedly threatened to destroy them, and that it has sponsored terrorism against Israel and against Jews for many years. Naww, that can't be it!

Gee, I wonder why. I'm sure it's not because Iran has repeatedly threatened to destroy them, and that it has sponsored terrorism against Israel and against Jews for many years. Naww, that can't be it!

Yep, bunch of drivel as expected...Same things have been repeated for years that Iran has a nuclear weapons by warmongers and will destroy Israel and nothing has happened...

[kactus]

Well, a sign of NOT being progressive is executing them.

Since when did you and the rest of the bunch here cared about gays in Iran!? Let's face it if it wasn't for Israel you wouldn't give a damn about Iran let alone its people.

Go and focus on Israeli war crimes instead of cherry picking to suit your argument. It's getting lame.....

[Rue]

Go and focus on Israeli war crimes instead of cherry picking to suit your argument. It's getting lame.....

You alreadu have a thread for that....but hey why not deflect this one too right?

[Rue]

Since when did you and the rest of the bunch here cared about gays in Iran!? Let's face it if it wasn't for Israel you wouldn't give a damn about Iran let alone its people.

Right, so on a thread commenced to spout the virtues of the state of Iran, no one can point out its dismissal human rights failures and the fact it is the leading financier of world terrorism....r because you now know I and others only care about gays if its to slag Iran. Got it. Thanks.

[Rue]

This is a great post and I agree with many statements made in the post completely. What I can add is that there is a distinction between Iran which p

Iran has been demonized purposely by Israel and the US in the past few decades. Once being a good guy of the middle east when ruled by the Shah suddenly became (or painted by Mossad and CIA) as evil and terrorist nation overnight after its revolution and standing up for its rights.

Your comments and national geographic special on Iran can be summarized as follows.

1. Iran is not and has never been in the Middle East no more than Turkey is-geography is not your strong suit;

2. this shtick you engage of in taking all the horrors Iran has engaged in and in one quick poof, deny them and claim its

made up by Mossad and the CIA is lame;

3. Iran is standing up for its rights? Go tell that to the citizens of Iran whose rights it crushes each and every day.

Go on tell me how the following comes from Mossad and the CIA, can't wait to here your explanation:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/07/iran-s-horrific-human-rights-record.html

"A new report by the United Nations’ special rapporteur on human rights in Iran, Ahmed Shaheed, helps cast light on the regime’s dark record.

The Shaheed report blasts Iran’s growing use of executions, with 687 in 2013 and already 411 in the first half of 2014. Under Iranian law, citizens can face executions for a shockingly broad range of non-violent crimes, including “adultery, recidivist alcohol use, drug possession and trafficking” and corruption, in addition to moharebeh (sometimes translated as “enmity against God”). Indeed, the report observes that the regime in Tehran, in practical terms, is disproportionately executing individuals from religious and ethnic minority groups “for exercising their protected rights, including freedom of expression and association.”

Iranian authorities are also continuing the “widespread and systematic use” of psychological and physical torture to obtain confessions, the Shaheed report warns. Tactics include “prolonged solitary confinement, mock executions and the threat of rape, along with physical abuse, including severe beatings, use of suspension and pressure positions, electroshock and burnings,” in addition to flogging and amputations.

Moreover, the regime in Tehran continues to suppress freedom of expression by actively targeting, harassing, and detaining reporters and bloggers—indeed, at least 35 journalists are being detained today. It also blocks around five million websites dedicated to arts, social issues, and news, and takes severe steps to filter the content of blogs and social media."

Go on deny away.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Rue

[kactus]

You alreadu have a thread for that....but hey why not deflect this one too right?

That is because the agenda for certain members here is to piss on Iran and Iranians....

But hey you don't have a problem with that. Using human rights in Iran is just an excuse the demonise them all...

Now why would that be wrong if someone did the same thing to Israel and criticise their governments brutal policies? Hmmm...

Edited April 18, 2016 by kactus