Argus Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 You liked it because it is nothing more than right-wing nonsense. No, it's not nonsense. It's simplistic but not nonsense. There is truth in it. It IS unfair to take money from those who studied hard and work hard to earn it and give it to those who goofed off and never bothered. There's no question this is unfair. It's simplistic, though, in that not all those who are poor goofed off and failed to work hard. Many are victims of circumstances beyond their control, and illnesses. And, of course, many are children. Should we ignore their wants and needs because their parents were alcoholics? Won't that just doom them to a life of poverty and ultimately produce generations of ignorant, unproductive welfare bums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) What's a fairy tail? Or did you mean tale? Good bleeping grief. So instead of making a counter point you make point out using the wrong homonyms? Ten different points of view came down and you having nothing to add. Than why say anything. Haiti! For every time you mention socialism is failed, I will provide an example where capitalism, in all it's glory has ruined millions of lives! So I started off with the POOREST NATION IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE! Castro ROCKS! WWWTT Oh we could play the alphabet game with countries where socialism and capitalism have failed. Sounds like a geeks drinking game.Hell sounds kinda fun. The teacher was using an exercise to show an example about how unfair the system is. My point is the teacher could have easily showed how unfair socialism is. Edited November 23, 2014 by Ash74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 No, it's not nonsense. It's simplistic but not nonsense. There is truth in it. It IS unfair to take money from those who studied hard and work hard to earn it and give it to those who goofed off and never bothered. There's no question this is unfair. It's simplistic, though, in that not all those who are poor goofed off and failed to work hard. Many are victims of circumstances beyond their control, and illnesses. And, of course, many are children. Should we ignore their wants and needs because their parents were alcoholics? Won't that just doom them to a life of poverty and ultimately produce generations of ignorant, unproductive welfare bums? So what do we do for them? If we just start throwing money at them that has shown not to work. We will become the welfare state like Ontario was in the early 90's. Canadians have that American trait if wanting the best cell phone,biggest TV, nicest car. Look to the native reserves. Billions have been given to them but it is the illegal smoke shops that have really brought money to the people there Individuals like myself will not stand to have all of our rights and property seized to be redistributed and being told what I can and cannot have because some committee said so. When Josef Stalin was on his deathbed he called in two likely successors, to test which one of the two had a better knack for ruling the country. He ordered two birds to be brought in and presented one bird to each of the two candidates. The first one grabbed the bird, but was so afraid that the bird could free himself from his grip and fly away that he squeezed his hand very hard, and when he opened his palm, the bird was dead. Seeing the disapproving look on Stalin's face and being afraid to repeat his rival's mistake, the second candidate loosened his grip so much that the bird freed himself and flew away. Stalin looked at both of them scornfully. "Bring me a bird!" he ordered. They did. Stalin took the bird by its legs and slowly, one by one, he plucked all the feathers from the bird's little body. Then he opened his palm. The bird was laying there naked, shivering, helpless. Stalin looked at him, smiled gently and said, "You see... and he is even thankful for the human warmth coming out of my palm." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 So what do we do for them? The best we can, of course. If we just start throwing money at them that has shown not to work. We will become the welfare state like Ontario was in the early 90's. Oh, I definitely agree that money needs to be targeted to programs which achieve results. The most important training skills training and education. But in the meantime do you want children to starve because their parents are losers? Individuals like myself will not stand to have all of our rights and property seized to be redistributed and being told what I can and cannot have because some committee said so. Well, ultimately, yes you will. You abide by society's rules just like the rest of us. I'm not happy at sending off thousands of dollars to CRA every quarter (tens of thousands actually), believe me. But I don't think sweeping statements about 'throwing money' at problems is adequate. We need to pay for what we need to pay for and not the rest. We need to decide what is needed vs what is merely wanted. And we need to make sure programs are efficient and effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 What's made China and Vietnam viable is their adoption of capitalism. Vietnam even has a stock exchange now! Mr. Marx wouldn't be very happy with them! Lol. To work and earn a living was always a part of socialism. So this "adoption of capitalism" is only a convenient "sour gapes vs sweet lemons" inferiority/denial complex. Not to mention the obvious fact that "if" the Chinese accepted capitalism, and it works beyond anyone's most highest expectations, Then what happened to the wild success other capitalist countries were supposed to have????????????????????? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I'm happy to hear that whit privilege is becoming a very important topic in social justice. What's a fairy tail? Or did you mean tale? Good bleeping grief. For the life of me you really stumped me!!!!! While your at it can you explain to me what a "whit" is? Is this like some new kind of particle that is being used in the English language now? You do know what a particle is right? Anyways, good luck buddy! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Oh we could play the alphabet game with countries where socialism and capitalism have failed. Sounds like a geeks drinking game.Hell sounds kinda fun. The teacher was using an exercise to show an example about how unfair the system is. My point is the teacher could have easily showed how unfair socialism is. Failed attempt to belittle reality! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 For the life of me you really stumped me!!!!! While your at it can you explain to me what a "whit" is? Is this like some new kind of particle that is being used in the English language now? You do know what a particle is right? Anyways, good luck buddy! WWWTT I forgot the E. That is a typo. You don't know the difference between tale and tail. That is a lack of knowledge of the English language. Also, as I highlighted above, "your" should have been "you're", because what you were trying to say was, "you are". And good luck to you too, buddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I forgot the E. That is a typo. You don't know the difference between tale and tail. That is a lack of knowledge of the English language. Also, as I highlighted above, "your" should have been "you're", because what you were trying to say was, "you are". And good luck to you too, buddy! Thanks for pointing out a mistake I made because I didn't proof read. The point I was making was that you shouldn't ridicule other posters for simple mistakes WE ALL MAKE! Still haven't given me the definition of what a particle is by the way. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Failed attempt to belittle reality! WWWTT How so? The exercise was a simplistic example at showing how the better situated a person is the easier it is to be successful. It also showed how the people that benefited didn't see an issue with being in a better position. My point was making it equal for everybody. The teacher could have showed both sides of the argument. Should the teacher not show all sides of the argument? I remember getting in trouble for criticizing our senate system in grade 7. I didn't think it was right that they be appointed by the PM. (still don't) Than I got sent out into the hall because I refused to agree with the teacher over the argument. Teachers should not be judging the stance but how the argument is laid out by the student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) To work and earn a living was always a part of socialism. So this "adoption of capitalism" is only a convenient "sour gapes vs sweet lemons" inferiority/denial complex. Not to mention the obvious fact that "if" the Chinese accepted capitalism, and it works beyond anyone's most highest expectations, Then what happened to the wild success other capitalist countries were supposed to have????????????????????? WWWTT All one has to do is compare the standards of living in capitalist countries to non-capitalist countries. Don't you know that you're living pretty high on the hog, especially compared to world stanards? Anyways, you'd be wise to brush up on your Marx. Because earning a living is one thing, but private property, and earning exclusive from the government or collective is something completely different. Vietnam stocks for everyone! Hopefully they'll yield nice dividends this year! Based on profit margins of course. Edited November 23, 2014 by Shady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 All one has to do is compare the standards of living in capitalist countries to non-capitalist countries. Don't you know that you're living pretty high on the hog, especially compared to world stanards? Anyways, you'd be wise to brush up on your Marx. Because earning a living is one thing, but private property, and earning exclusive from the government or collective is something completely different. Vietnam stocks for everyone! Hopefully they'll yield nice dividends this year! Based on profit margins of course. LOL! You like to exclude those capitalistic countries that have very low standards of living! I guess by your definition the poor capitalistic countries are not the same as the well off capitalistic countries excluding the poor people in the well off capitalistic countries. Can't forget to not include those millions left behind and growing! Oh and by the way, your FEEBLE STRAWMAN still doesn't answer the question of why the economy of capitalistic countries has never and never will match that of China. Maybe if you keep going on about Marxism I will forget? Good plan Shady! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 The teacher could have made it fair and shown them socialism. By that all he had to do is turn the bucket upside down. The class would enjoy shared poverty He should have levelled the playing field by arranging the students in a circle. The game was obviously rigged from the get go. Somebody got to the teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Capitalism isn't perfect but it's the best system we've got. Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh. Mulcair for the PM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 What's a fairy tail? Or did you mean tale? Good bleeping grief. I forgot the E. That is a typo. You don't know the difference between tale and tail. That is a lack of knowledge of the English language. Also, as I highlighted above, "your" should have been "you're", because what you were trying to say was, "you are". And good luck to you too, buddy! The poster you're quoting is speaking a different language, Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh. Mulcair for the PM! That is a terrible thing to say to a Canadian. I wouldn't wish four more years of Bush jr on you. Mulcair is looking at houses in Ottawa because He knows he will have to move next year cause he ain't gonna keep Stornoway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 That is a terrible thing to say to a Canadian. I wouldn't wish four more years of Bush jr on you. Mulcair is looking at houses in Ottawa because He knows he will have to move next year cause he ain't gonna keep Stornoway. Has he asked his broker about 24 Sussex (link to brokerage listing)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Don't see where ya got that but ok....... I don't have a problem with taxes if they are affordable and are not going to harm the economy. You curse corporations but many pensions are funded by stocks of corporations. That makes the pension holders owners of said corporation. So when the corporations don't make money than the pension fund does not make money. Guess how teachers pensions are funded. Now my problem with taxing the hell out of corporations is that they can leave the country. That is part of the problem. Retirement funds are part of this global investment scheme through banks that operate internationally. And no matter where they decide to operate, you can still invest in that company for retirement fund purposes. And in some cases where they are too big to fail, taxpayer money is used to help them out. I don't think we need to support failing business models this way through 'socialism' for the rich to-big-to-fail companies. The funny thing is that people are going to fund much of their savings wiped out within the next decade due to many failing corporations that can no longer walk up to the public trough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 You know when people start picking on someone's spelling that they've run out of ammo and the debate is over. I criticize spelling to those who have criticized me previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 That is part of the problem. Retirement funds are part of this global investment scheme through banks that operate internationally. And no matter where they decide to operate, you can still invest in that company for retirement fund purposes. And in some cases where they are too big to fail, taxpayer money is used to help them out. I don't think we need to support failing business models this way through 'socialism' for the rich to-big-to-fail companies. The funny thing is that people are going to fund much of their savings wiped out within the next decade due to many failing corporations that can no longer walk up to the public trough. And when that happens the tax payers will be on the hook for more of the pension payments not even mentioning what has already been paid. But if the corporations collapse there will be a lot less tax payers that can pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I criticize spelling to those who have criticized me previously. Debate the points not throw darts at simple spelling errors. It is boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Debate the points not throw darts at simple spelling errors. It is boring. Where were you when they were criticizing my typos? Anyway, you're right; who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Where were you when they were criticizing my typos? Anyway, you're right; who cares. At work paying taxes for teachers salaries so my kids can learn a math that will never help them in the real world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 At work paying taxes for teachers salaries so my kids can learn a math that will never help them in the real world Teachers provide the most important public service for maintaining democracy. It's everyone's duty to pay into the public school system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Teachers provide the most important public service for maintaining democracy. It's everyone's duty to pay into the public school system. Wouldn't say THE most important for maintaining a democracy but I really don't have an argument about the importance of a good education. I would even argue it is THE most important part of government. I know heath care is very important but one is not always sick. We all need a good education. I do feel better about my taxes towards teachers salaries than the waste of skin that is the school boards and teachers unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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