A Sign of What Do-Gooders Can Accomplish

[Argus]

Nothing.

Vanouver mayor Gregor Robertson said he would eliminate homelessness by 2015. And despite pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into the effor the hasn't made a dent. In fact, it's worse than it's ever been. And for all those do-gooders with their free supervised injection sites and now crack pipe handouts, hey, guess what, drug abuse is thriving in Vancouver's lower east side. Making the police back off has sure helped there! The place is an open air sewer and all the do-gooders seem to be capable of is making money on their 'efforts'. What a joke!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/14/vancouvers-gulag-canadas-poorest-neighbourhood-refuses-to-get-better-despite-1m-a-day-in-social-spending/

[eyeball]

You have to make police back off everywhere across the country.

Creating only one haven in one location is like throwing down one salt lick in a cow field. Of course they're all going to go there.

Vancouver is taking responsibility for every other jurisdiction that isn't.

[jacee]

Why isn't such a place filled with rehab centres, opportunities for people to get clean?

And merely housing the homeless does almost nothing to address the underlying problem of drug addiction.Nobody can go through recovery here, for the most part, its just not possible, says Kate Gibson, executive director of WISH, a drop-in centre for survival sex workers (women who use prostitution to pay for their addictions).Weve made it Fortress Downtown Eastside; easy to get in, exceptionally hard to get out of.

There are only three detox centres in the neighbourhood, with only a handful of beds. Its only a seven-day stay, and nobody kicks a lifelong habit in seven days.

eta ... There is no good addictions rehab in this country ... unless you have money to pay for it. It's ridiculous.

.

Edited November 15, 2014 by jacee

[WestCoastRunner]

The city of Vancouver attracts many people from the rest of the country, including employable folks and those who end up on the street, especially given our climate. Eyeball is correct in that Vancouver does take responsibility where many jurisdictions don't.

There is also the 'NIMBY' syndrome. Whenever a location is proposed to house those with mental issues, the outcry shuts them down before they can even open.

[eyeball]

The stigma of mental illness also drives many to seek the anonymity the city provides.

This is a huge complex issue that lends itself well to the simplistic attitudes, ignorance, criticisms and solutions offered up by the Argus' of the world.

[overthere]

Vancouver is taking responsibility for every other jurisdiction that isn't.

Ah, the overwhelming conceit of the Left Coast rears one of its many heads, while the hand flapping endures.

The former Mayor of Edmonton, Stephen Mandel, took on homelessness in Edmonton a decade ago. He reasoned that the thing most lacking for the homeless was a home. Not clean drug sites, poverty or substance abuse. A place to live. So he built a bunch of inner city developments to provide a cheap place to live. It is not a small thing in a cold climate. It has dropped the number of homeless quite a bit, and the spinoffs on other things is noted. It is really hard to get and hold any kind of job if you don';t have a safe place to sleep eat and clean yourself.

You can't live there if you insist on turning your home into a crack house.

There are still plenty of homeless, but it is a start.

[eyeball]

I was clearly referring to the specific issue of Vancouver being the only one to employ harm reduction strategies aimed at drug use.

Oh look there's another rednecked right-winger flapping his arms.

[On Guard for Thee]

Ah, the overwhelming conceit of the Left Coast rears one of its many heads, while the hand flapping endures.

The former Mayor of Edmonton, Stephen Mandel, took on homelessness in Edmonton a decade ago. He reasoned that the thing most lacking for the homeless was a home. Not clean drug sites, poverty or substance abuse. A place to live. So he built a bunch of inner city developments to provide a cheap place to live. It is not a small thing in a cold climate. It has dropped the number of homeless quite a bit, and the spinoffs on other things is noted. It is really hard to get and hold any kind of job if you don';t have a safe place to sleep eat and clean yourself.

You can't live there if you insist on turning your home into a crack house.

There are still plenty of homeless, but it is a start.

Yeah so did Ralph Klein. He gave homeless people one way bus tickets to YVR. I imagine Argus would have fully approved of that approach.

[Argus]

eta ... There is no good addictions rehab in this country ... unless you have money to pay for it. It's ridiculous.

Well, I don't know the name of it but my cousin went through rehab for booze and pills and he certainly didn't pay for it. It involved a couple of weeks in detox downtown, then several months out in the country. He hasn't touched booze or pills since and it's been more than a decade.

[Argus]

The stigma of mental illness also drives many to seek the anonymity the city provides.

This is a huge complex issue that lends itself well to the simplistic attitudes, ignorance, criticisms and solutions offered up by the Argus' of the world.

Your ignorance is showing. I haven't offered up a solution. I've merely expressed my contempt for all those do-gooders spending hundreds of millions of dollars a year to accomplish absolutely nothing.

Apparently you think that's just fine. I disagree.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Argus

[eyeball]

You made it pretty clear you think police backing off is a bad idea so it's just as clear what you'd suggest should be done...ergo your solution is as obvious as your contempt for the solution presently in the works.

[BubberMiley]

Well, I don't know the name of it but my cousin went through rehab for booze and pills and he certainly didn't pay for it. It involved a couple of weeks in detox downtown, then several months out in the country. He hasn't touched booze or pills since and it's been more than a decade.

Lousy do-gooders made him quit booze and pills? What a buzz kill!

[jacee]

Well, I don't know the name of it but my cousin went through rehab for booze and pills and he certainly didn't pay for it. It involved a couple of weeks in detox downtown, then several months out in the country. He hasn't touched booze or pills since and it's been more than a decade.

That costs money.

Not available to street addicts.

.

[Argus]

You made it pretty clear you think police backing off is a bad idea so it's just as clear what you'd suggest should be done...ergo your solution is as obvious as your contempt for the solution presently in the works.

My contempt is for spending lots of money on solutions that don't solve things. As for solutions offered up by the 'argus'' of the world, well, since what's going on there is the eyeball solution we can conclusively state it doesn't work AT ALL. So maybe we should look for the Argus solution to do better, eh?

[eyeball]

Well as I said with regards to harm reduction Vancouver's approach will not be practical or sustainable unless it's applied nationally. One or a handful of jurisdictions cannot carry the weight alone.

Edited November 16, 2014 by eyeball

[Argus]

Well as I said with regards to harm reduction Vancouver's approach will not be practical or sustainable unless it's applied nationally. One or a handful of jurisdictions cannot carry the weight alone.

They're spending a million bucks a day in that little area of Vancouver. How much do you think we have to spend on drug addicts and criminals?

That being said, I am all for investing in something which brings results. That includes forcing addicts and alcoholics into treatment, and the mentally ill into shelters, locked shelters if necessary.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Argus

[eyeball]

A million a day on harm reduction in the lower east side of Vancouver?

I'd be surprised if there's that much being spent per day around the planet on harm reduction of the sort in question. A million a day punishing addicts is more likely the reality.

Edited November 17, 2014 by eyeball

[Bryan]

Well as I said with regards to harm reduction Vancouver's approach will not be practical or sustainable unless it's applied nationally. One or a handful of jurisdictions cannot carry the weight alone.

Which makes it a waste of time and money for Vancouver to even try. Doing things for the purpose of looking like you're trying is not a reason to do anything, unless it actually does achieve the stated objective.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Bryan

[Michael Hardner]

Pretty close to talking dollars and cents, services and so on...

All we need is some links and we're off to the races...

[ReeferMadness]

Nothing.

Vanouver mayor Gregor Robertson said he would eliminate homelessness by 2015. And despite pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into the effor the hasn't made a dent. In fact, it's worse than it's ever been. And for all those do-gooders with their free supervised injection sites and now crack pipe handouts, hey, guess what, drug abuse is thriving in Vancouver's lower east side. Making the police back off has sure helped there! The place is an open air sewer and all the do-gooders seem to be capable of is making money on their 'efforts'. What a joke!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/14/vancouvers-gulag-canadas-poorest-neighbourhood-refuses-to-get-better-despite-1m-a-day-in-social-spending/

There is indeed a problem but I'm not sure how fair it is to lay it at Mayor Robertson's feet. Your statement above dishonestly infers that Robertson himself is responsible for spending hundreds of millions. In fact the story you've linked says otherwise:

As of 2009, there were more than 250 service agencies and housing operations in the Downtown Eastside, spending a total of $360 million per year. Roll in the spending on social assistance, and the area easily costs that $1 million a day.

250 agencies. No wonder it's a clusterf*ck. I wonder how many of them are private organizations that stepped in to fill the gap when the federal an provincial governments cut services to lower taxes. So that their wealthy backers could afford that extra trip to the Bahamas every year.

[ReeferMadness]

They're spending a million bucks a day in that little area of Vancouver. How much do you think we have to spend on drug addicts and criminals?

Now you're just making things up. Provide a reference to back up your claim that a million dollars a day are being spent on harm reduction in the east side of Vancouver.

[WestCoastRunner]

Which makes it a waste of time and money for Vancouver to even try. Doing things for the purpose of looking like you're trying is not a reason to do anything, unless it actually does achieve the stated objective.

Many of the services offered by the DTES have been proven to increase the likelihood of drug abusers getting help, seeking out resources to abstain, staying safe and alive. I can absolutely cite those studies here but honestly, it's been reported so many times. This is a silly argument to discount the work that is being done in the DTES as being useless. The naysayers have been discounted ad nauseum.

[Bryan]

Many of the services offered by the DTES have been proven to increase the likelihood of drug abusers getting help, seeking out resources to abstain, staying safe and alive. I can absolutely cite those studies here but honestly, it's been reported so many times. This is a silly argument to discount the work that is being done in the DTES as being useless. The naysayers have been discounted ad nauseum.

People's whose livelihood and reputation are at stake can and will manipulate statistics to make it look like they support what they are doing to justify continuing to ask for money. The facts on the ground do not match up to those recorded in the studies:

Once there, “quite literally, there are going to be people on your doorstep dealing drugs or encouraging drug use … and beyond that, they’re going to try and exploit you in other ways, like turning you out for prostitution,” says Mr. Crey, whose sister Dawn lived in the neighbourhood for 20 years before she was murdered by serial killer Robert Pickton.

ALIVE, which does not take government funding, is one of the most vocal critics of what it calls the Downtown Eastside’s “broken system”: Unaccountable non-profits, a general disinterest in tracing the impact of government funding, and a complete lack of any coherent end-game for the place.

“The way things are happening now, things are going to get much worse, it’s just a terrible system, straight-up,” said ALIVE’s executive director, Scott Clark. “Everybody should agree this is unacceptable.”

A million dollars a DAY in social spending and the problem is getting worse, not better. What's silly is trying to argue that these programs are working.

As of 2009, there were more than 250 service agencies and housing operations in the Downtown Eastside, spending a total of $360 million per year. Roll in the spending on social assistance, and the area easily costs that $1 million a day.

“You just keep dumping money in, building social housing and filling it up with people from all around the region and the country … they all get chemically dependent, and it’s just more sales for the drug dealers,” says Philip Owen, Vancouver’s mayor from 1993 to 2002.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/14/vancouvers-gulag-canadas-poorest-neighbourhood-refuses-to-get-better-despite-1m-a-day-in-social-spending/

Edited November 17, 2014 by Bryan

[WestCoastRunner]

People's whose livelihood and reputation are at stake can and will manipulate statistics to make it look like they support what they are doing to justify continuing to ask for money. The facts on the ground do not match up to those recorded in the studies:

A poor argument for programs that actually work to save lives and get people into recovery programs.

[WestCoastRunner]

People's whose livelihood and reputation are at stake can and will manipulate statistics to make it look like they support what they are doing to justify continuing to ask for money. The facts on the ground do not match up to those recorded in the studies:

A million dollars a DAY in social spending and the problem is getting worse, not better. What's silly is trying to argue that these programs are working.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/14/vancouvers-gulag-canadas-poorest-neighbourhood-refuses-to-get-better-despite-1m-a-day-in-social-spending/

I have a friend that lives near the DTSE neighbourhood and raises two children. She has walked her kids to school and has come across needles. She vigorously fought for the needle exchange site and it did indeed drastically reduced the # of needles on the streets, on the beaches and and the # of needles that kids may come across in their daily travels. The DTES is nothing that can be compared to the rest of Canada and it requires it's own unique solutions. For anyone that does not understand that, they should perhaps move to Vancouver and live here for a decade or so. Every single service that is offered in the DTES is required and we absolutely need more recovery centers.